Community unRAID HTPC Project

[Ockingshay]

Although this forum is aimed at users posting their designs, i thought i would start the other way and then once we've established a build, i will build it and show off the monster that we've created.

 

Since v6, we have access to creating somewhat of an amazing "ultimate" HTPC to be able to cater to a whole plethora of desires. If we can establish a "barebones" list of components, then others could build this project in their own homes and try to take out some of the hardware choice guesswork.

 

Before we get to the point where we can actually build it, i would like to discuss it's potential. There are lots of users out there with some great ideas as to what "one" would like in an all-in-one box, feeding (usually) the biggest and best TV/Sound system in the house.

 

I already have an unRAID "master" server that does all my automation, so i'm purely looking for a consumption device. But if others would like to make this their main machine, with the advent of dockers, it wouldn't take too much to change it about.

 

I will start with the obvious:

 

1) Plex - They have an openelec build of PHT

2) Kodi

3) SteamOS

 

This is where the community part comes in, as there are so many other things this machine can do; so lets create a list.

 

I for one would like to see:

 

1) Retro Gaming (emulators) of some sort

2) Viewing CCTV

3) Live TV perhaps? although with (what the UK calls "catch up") this might not be so important.

4) ...

 

We also need to discuss hardware pitfalls, such as choosing the right CPU for hardware acceleration; being able to use some sort of IR remote for each VM (FLIIRC perhaps?); Choosing the right graphics card for each VM; RAM, etc

 

I will update this post when we get more ideas.

 

Hardware consideration (my thoughts).

 

CPU: dictated mainly by Intel-VT or AMD- V

Motherboard: Are we are going to need as many lanes as possible? skylake or even x99 perhaps?

Memory(RAM): Depends on the system we choose, as to what type. (see notes)

HDD: Using cache pool mainly. Do we need parity or even array storage?

Case: This is down to personal choice and probably limited to one that can fit all the components in without it all disintegrating.

GPU: A suitable GPU for each VM,

Peripherals: The biggest consideration here is being able to supply each VM with the necessary ports to function correctly.

Cooling: I don;t want this to sound like a jet engine

 

I have one main requirement; to be able to pass though 1080p @ 24p with DTS/Dolby HD, therefore the hardware and software will need to be capable of this. We are also right around the corner of 4K, but i think the required amount of power to be able to game and stream sufficiently is beyond current technology at a sensible price point and without melting the HTPC

 

NOTES Section

 

1) USB separation: Each VM will need their input devices. So maybe we need to choose a couple of USB cards

2) GPUs: Most should be relatively low powered and for SteamOS, we'll be gaming at 1080p, so something like a geforce 970 perhaps.

3) Power consumption: There's no point filling this with all high end equipment if it's going to cost a million gold crowns to run it each year.

4) Price: Although i'm pretty flexible in this, i would like to make this project as accessible as possible. So where we need to spend the money we will, but lets be smart about our choices. 4 Titan Xs may be overkill

5) Heat: There's going to be a lot of components in such a relatively small HTPC case, so we need to think about cooling and choosing the right components with low TDP.

6) HDDs: For this project we're not really looking for slow array storage but more of the cache pool features. Using SSDs and making this as fast as possible but bearing in mind unRAID's fault tolerant features.

7) Memory Usage: At first thought to be able to run all this we're going to need a lot of RAM, but we need to work it out. Really, the only large (relatively) amount of RAM is for gaming. The rest are quite minimal i suspect.

CPU: Needs enough grunt to cope with all of this, but not at the same time.

 

So what i would like from you is 1) what would you like this HTPC be able to do and 2) what hardware would you choose.

 

Looking forward to your thoughts

[00b5]

Without this machine being based around unRAID (meaning its a file server w/parity first and foremost) you are just talking about a linux box with support for multiple seats. You wouldn't be tied to unRAID, since you could go with a handful of linux distros that support KVM, and go to town. Perhaps i'm misunderstanding what you are asking.

 

Now, what would be interesting is designing a box from the ground up to support storing lots of files (movies/shows/games/etc) with a few hdds w/parity.

 

Then, run a bunch of tools (dockers) to really use that storage for downloading data (sickrage, couchpotato, etc), and some server aspects (like plex, airvideohd, mysql db for syncing kodi installs, etc).

 

Then, spin up VM's for anything that should be in its own install, and any VMs that we want to use in a physical manner (HTPC via openelec vm, steamOS w/gaming video card, windows VM to replace your workstation/etc).

 

So, to have all this, you'll need a mb with enough slots that supports vt-d (matx w/ 2 pci-e x16 slots, or atx with even more). It should also have a few usb controllers, since you'll want to pass at least an entire controller to each vm. With these requirements off the bat, you want at least a i5, but probably just go i7 or xeon (quad core w/mt and video to cover as many options as possible). As much ram as you can fit on the MB (16gb, 32gb?). Then add video cards (and any other accessories like tv tuners, additional usb controllers/etc) and work on getting them passed through.

 

Thats a monster, and probably no small feat.

 

BTW, your 1080p @24hz should be easily done with any recent video card that has hdmi. x264 acceleration is pretty common these days, so video cards do most of the work. Hell, you can get that video output and DTS/DD from a $35 pi2 with ease (just not HD audio).

 

My current server is in sig, and I run 2 pis, 1 pi2 (all with kodi, hardwired) around my house. I use plex or airvideoHD to transcode a stream to my iphone (sometimes other iphones/ipads) offsite (train to work/etc).

 

I'd love to have a reasonable sized box with enough hdds for storage, 2 video cards (one for OE directly to my primary tv, one for windows VM and/or steamOS/etc), and then running all my dockers for downloading, sorting, transcoding, etc.

[Ockingshay]

Without this machine being based around unRAID (meaning its a file server w/parity first and foremost) you are just talking about a linux box with support for multiple seats. You wouldn't be tied to unRAID, since you could go with a handful of linux distros that support KVM, and go to town. Perhaps i'm misunderstanding what you are asking.

 

Well that's a very good point, and not something i'm familiar with. Is there a better management solution than unRAID's webgui? I went on KVM's website and there are loads of tools, Is there one that is better than the others?

 

 

Now, what would be interesting is designing a box from the ground up to support storing lots of files (movies/shows/games/etc) with a few hdds w/parity.

 

Then, run a bunch of tools (dockers) to really use that storage for downloading data (sickrage, couchpotato, etc), and some server aspects (like plex, airvideohd, mysql db for syncing kodi installs, etc).

 

Then, spin up VM's for anything that should be in its own install, and any VMs that we want to use in a physical manner (HTPC via openelec vm, steamOS w/gaming video card, windows VM to replace your workstation/etc).

 

That's basically what everybody has done in this forum, including me with my main server. I however have mine in a centralised cupboard with all my IT equipment, so I don't need to install GPUs into it. It would be interesting to know what percentage of people use unRAID as a central file sharing node vs those that stick it next to their TV to play direct vs those that also use it in a home office environment to amalgamate their desktop computers.

 

There is a good case to having a couple of unRAID servers dotted around the house to be able to cater for everything it can be utilised for.

 

My idea was born because we have so many low powered consumption devices (apple tv, fire tv, chromecast, etc) but none of them really deliver a top end experience with sound and picture. The closest so far is the nvidia shield box, but you are tied to the developers to create and more importantly update their softwares. Whereas if it's PC based, we have full control.

 

BTW, your 1080p @24hz should be easily done with any recent video card that has hdmi. x264 acceleration is pretty common these days, so video cards do most of the work. Hell, you can get that video output and DTS/DD from a $35 pi2 with ease (just not HD audio).

 

Yes, you're right (and hence the hardware requirement for say the plex/kodi VM in this HTPC build would be minimal), but as with what i was saying above, it's still better to run desktop equivalent versions of the software to be guaranteed the best and most up-to-date features. I see it all the time on the plex forums. It's so fragmented now that unless you install PHT on a windows machine, you will miss out on some feature or hardware limitation.

 

I'd love to have a reasonable sized box with enough hdds for storage, 2 video cards (one for OE directly to my primary tv, one for windows VM and/or steamOS/etc), and then running all my dockers for downloading, sorting, transcoding, etc.

 

Just pick an OCD forum design thread 

 

 

....I'll have to start researching KVM managers then i think. Is there anything as simple and user friendly as the unRAID webgui; or even something much better out there? I like the cache pool idea, rather than using RAID and the web management tools that unRAID provides. it's become a very nice, tidy little package since version 6.

[JonathanM]

....I'll have to start researching KVM managers then i think. Is there anything as simple and user friendly as the unRAID webgui; or even something much better out there? I like the cache pool idea, rather than using RAID and the web management tools that unRAID provides. it's become a very nice, tidy little package since version 6.

I think you will find very little that competes, as much of the delay in 6 was trying the different managers that are currently available, and the final outcome was that none of them did what was desired so limetech said "screw it, we'll write our own".

[Ockingshay]

....I'll have to start researching KVM managers then i think. Is there anything as simple and user friendly as the unRAID webgui; or even something much better out there? I like the cache pool idea, rather than using RAID and the web management tools that unRAID provides. it's become a very nice, tidy little package since version 6.

I think you will find very little that competes, as much of the delay in 6 was trying the different managers that are currently available, and the final outcome was that none of them did what was desired so limetech said "screw it, we'll write our own".

 

This is the conclusion I am coming to. I'm still up for making this project work.

[jonp]

Just to chime in on VM management.  The issue we discovered is that virtualization management (even QEMU/KVM) seems to be solely focused on enterprise business and cloud features. Consumer use cases essentially require folks to invest massive amounts of time in researching how to build their own virtualization host from scratch (selecting a distro to use, learning how to configure the kernel for max success with advanced concepts like GPU pass through, and of course selecting and learning a management framework for creating and controlling the VMs).  And by the time you have something working, a new update comes out and you have to learn it all over again.

 

In short, I don't think there is a competing solution to ours in terms of offering simplified management with a focus on consumer uses for virtualization. We choose to build our web based management for VMs in a desire to simplify complex virtualization capabilities for DIY computer enthusiasts.

 

[cbn]

Although this forum is aimed at users posting their designs, i thought i would start the other way and then once we've established a build, i will build it and show off the monster that we've created.

 

Since v6, we have access to creating somewhat of an amazing "ultimate" HTPC to be able to cater to a whole plethora of desires. If we can establish a "barebones" list of components, then others could build this project in their own homes and try to take out some of the hardware choice guesswork.

 

Before we get to the point where we can actually build it, i would like to discuss it's potential. There are lots of users out there with some great ideas as to what "one" would like in an all-in-one box, feeding (usually) the biggest and best TV/Sound system in the house.

 

I already have an unRAID "master" server that does all my automation, so i'm purely looking for a consumption device. But if others would like to make this their main machine, with the advent of dockers, it wouldn't take too much to change it about.

 

I will start with the obvious:

 

1) Plex - They have an openelec build of PHT

2) Kodi

3) SteamOS

 

This is where the community part comes in, as there are so many other things this machine can do; so lets create a list.

 

I for one would like to see:

 

1) Retro Gaming (emulators) of some sort

2) Viewing CCTV

3) Live TV perhaps? although with (what the UK calls "catch up") this might not be so important.

4) ...

 

We also need to discuss hardware pitfalls, such as choosing the right CPU for hardware acceleration; being able to use some sort of IR remote for each VM (FLIIRC perhaps?); Choosing the right graphics card for each VM; RAM, etc

 

I will update this post when we get more ideas.

 

Hardware consideration (my thoughts).

 

CPU: dictated mainly by Intel-VT or AMD- V

Motherboard: Are we are going to need as many lanes as possible? skylake or even x99 perhaps?

Memory(RAM): Depends on the system we choose, as to what type. (see notes)

HDD: Using cache pool mainly. Do we need parity or even array storage?

Case: This is down to personal choice and probably limited to one that can fit all the components in without it all disintegrating.

GPU: A suitable GPU for each VM,

Peripherals: The biggest consideration here is being able to supply each VM with the necessary ports to function correctly.

Cooling: I don;t want this to sound like a jet engine

 

I have one main requirement; to be able to pass though 1080p @ 24p with DTS/Dolby HD, therefore the hardware and software will need to be capable of this. We are also right around the corner of 4K, but i think the required amount of power to be able to game and stream sufficiently is beyond current technology at a sensible price point and without melting the HTPC

 

NOTES Section

 

1) USB separation: Each VM will need their input devices. So maybe we need to choose a couple of USB cards

2) GPUs: Most should be relatively low powered and for SteamOS, we'll be gaming at 1080p, so something like a geforce 970 perhaps.

3) Power consumption: There's no point filling this with all high end equipment if it's going to cost a million gold crowns to run it each year.

4) Price: Although i'm pretty flexible in this, i would like to make this project as accessible as possible. So where we need to spend the money we will, but lets be smart about our choices. 4 Titan Xs may be overkill

5) Heat: There's going to be a lot of components in such a relatively small HTPC case, so we need to think about cooling and choosing the right components with low TDP.

6) HDDs: For this project we're not really looking for slow array storage but more of the cache pool features. Using SSDs and making this as fast as possible but bearing in mind unRAID's fault tolerant features.

7) Memory Usage: At first thought to be able to run all this we're going to need a lot of RAM, but we need to work it out. Really, the only large (relatively) amount of RAM is for gaming. The rest are quite minimal i suspect.

CPU: Needs enough grunt to cope with all of this, but not at the same time.

 

So what i would like from you is 1) what would you like this HTPC be able to do and 2) what hardware would you choose.

 

Looking forward to your thoughts

 

I think this is a great idea.

 

I would for one would like to see a build done with fairly inexpensive yet capable hardware (eg, AMD FM2+ motherboard with APU and dGPU).

 

Maybe pass through the APU's iGPU to a VM with OpenELEC and then pass through the dGPU to a VM with SteamOS or Linux Mint. This with unRAID 6 as the host OS.

 

And then make a software installation guide so that the average non technically savvy user could duplicate as their first build.

 

[Ockingshay]

I think this is a great idea.

 

I would for one would like to see a build done with fairly inexpensive yet capable hardware (eg, AMD FM2+ motherboard with APU and dGPU).

 

Maybe pass through the APU's iGPU to a VM with OpenELEC and then pass through the dGPU to a VM with SteamOS or Linux Mint. This with unRAID 6 as the host OS.

 

And then make a software installation guide so that the average non technically savvy user could duplicate as their first build.

 

Well with the lack of interest, I've already gone ahead and built this using an intel platform. unRAID works very well as the host, as expected. There's also plenty of scope to expand in the future.

 

I've always felt this is more of a technical forum, where you go to get your problems answered rather than a community to hang out and collaborate. Getting said questions answered is always exceptional but leaves this place quite cold. I guess that is the nature of this product, as its geared towards power users, despite the excellent efforts of limetecch to simplify the experience.

 

Well worth creating an HTPC around this now. SteamOS and their controller works particularly well.

 

 

[cbn]

I think this is a great idea.

 

I would for one would like to see a build done with fairly inexpensive yet capable hardware (eg, AMD FM2+ motherboard with APU and dGPU).

 

Maybe pass through the APU's iGPU to a VM with OpenELEC and then pass through the dGPU to a VM with SteamOS or Linux Mint. This with unRAID 6 as the host OS.

 

And then make a software installation guide so that the average non technically savvy user could duplicate as their first build.

 

Well with the lack of interest, I've already gone ahead and built this using an intel platform. unRAID works very well as the host, as expected. There's also plenty of scope to expand in the future.

 

I've always felt this is more of a technical forum, where you go to get your problems answered rather than a community to hang out and collaborate. Getting said questions answered is always exceptional but leaves this place quite cold. I guess that is the nature of this product, as its geared towards power users, despite the excellent efforts of limetecch to simplify the experience.

 

Well worth creating an HTPC around this now. SteamOS and their controller works particularly well.

 

Hi Ockingshay,

 

I am very interested in your build.

 

What hardware, software and peripherals did you end up using?

 

And did everything work out of the box?

 

P.S. If I get an unRAID with Intel build working smoothly, I will give the AMD FM2+ build a shot in the future as well. Also thinking about tinkering with Dell Precision T3500 and HP Z400 workstations as these are quite cheap and are the first platforms to support VT-d.

 

[00b5]

Yes, please update this with the specs of your build and your thoughts (or start a new topic for it).

 

This subforum is definitely the place to share what you were interested in doing, and even more so ONCE you've actually done it.

 

Perhaps no one understood the idea you were going for, so why not share what you did, and go from there. Many of us aren't that imaginative, but show us a pretty box and some things it can do, and people often get on board!

[KuniD]

Appreciate I maybe digging up an old thread but I'd also be keen to understand how your build went as this is pretty much what I'm building. Originally set out to build a new NAS only using bargains I can find on eBay and promptly got carried away...

 

Right now I have a lot of the components, just waiting on a few more parts to arrive. I'm just planning out the actual build and software setup side now.

 

Here's what I have;

 

Motherboard: Asus X99 Deluxe - lots of PCIE lanes/slots, 12x SATA, 2 USB controllers

RAM: 64GB ECC/Registered DDR4

CPU: Xeon E5 2678 V3 (12 core / 24 thread, 2.5GHz per core)

Graphics: Nvidia GTX970

Drives: 2 x WD Red 6Tb, 2 x WD Red 4Tb, 4 x Seagate NAS 4Tb (boot/cache SSD's to follow)

)Case: Fractal Design R5

CPU Cooling: Scythe Ninja 4

Fans: Phanteks PH-F140XP's to keep it quiet

 

 

[spylex]

Like many others, i am running my HTPC in my unRAID server. 7.6m HDMI cable is doing 4k with my GTX 960 just fine. I would like a motherboard that can allow 2 GPU and 2 PCI-e USB controller cards so i can have two distinct VMs working like this. I am yet to find one that also has 8 SATA + m2...

[KuniD]

Like many others, i am running my HTPC in my unRAID server. 7.6m HDMI cable is doing 4k with my GTX 960 just fine. I would like a motherboard that can allow 2 GPU and 2 PCI-e USB controller cards so i can have two distinct VMs working like this. I am yet to find one that also has 8 SATA + m2...

 

The Asus X99 Deluxe I mentioned can do this.

 

It has two USB controllers, can handle several GPUs, has 12x SATA and dual PCI-E 3.0 x4 M.2 (one onboard and one via HyperX card)

 

I plan to create a two person Oculus Rift system (2x GTX 970s needed) and generally run a long cable to my cinema setup as you have done.

[Cwis3man]

Take a look at my HTPC build and let me know what you think!

 

https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=45793.0