Okay, so I was all set to buy a PCH C-200, and then I catch this thread over at avsforum - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175778.  Manufacturer - http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/111-dune-bd-prime-3.0.html.  Anyone here set one of these up on with an unRaid backend?

I'm not going to tell you not to buy one, but be aware that, at least in the first batch, there is a quality issue with the BD drives. So, you might want to look in to whether that has been solved.

seems quite pricey.... also looking at the features page there seem to be quite a lot of things which I'd want it to do already at that price .

 

http://dune-hd.com/features/

 

I'm just having some delimmas with the WAF and KAF factors.  Although _I_ am a software engineer, my family is not, and I am trying to pick something that is as close to appliance-simple as possible.  After looking at everything again last night, I'm debating on waiting a few weeks to see what comes out of CES, including PCH's newest device.

XBMC or Plex can be setup to be very family friendly. 

XBMC or Plex can be setup to be very family friendly. 

 

... which brings me full circle.  With the latest dual-core Atoms (Acer Revo 3610, ASRock 330, etc) and XBMC, the HTPC arena has shifted dramatically from ungainly boxes to appliance looking devices.  From what I have read, I should be able to get XBMC + Win7 + MPC-HC to play my BD content with every feature except DDTHD/DTSMA, since nVidia doesn't have drivers yet for HDMI passthrough.  I'm starting to lean to this setup, and I could potentially dual task this little guy to do my BD backups as well.  And as a community, XBMC is VERY active and friendly.  Friendly is not something that can be said about some of the competitors. 

 

The thing the appliances have going for them, like the C-200 and the Dune 3.0, is that they CAN do the lossless audio now, and the Dune in particular is more attractive physically than the other options.

 

Regardless of which route I end up taking, unRaid is obviously the solution for me for the backend, and this group has shown to be very helpful to others, which is why I haven't really asked a lot of questions about it yet.  There's plenty of info when you search. 

There's plenty of info when you search. 

And more info in the wiki

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Unofficial_Documentation

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Official_Documentation

Yes, the wiki is the ultimate tool.  I should also take this as an opportunity to point out that guys like you, Joe, have not only enhanced the boards with your knowledge, but you've gone on to produce some very powerful add-ons to really make unRAID even more user friendly and manageable.  Thanks to all you advanced geeks for helping the rest of us mortal geeks. 

Agreed - based on the features list it appears that it might not do anything!

I have a Dune Prime 3.0 that I got two weeks ago. I have it set up usiing NFS shares connecting to my unRaid server. I've had no problems with it. The disk drive on mine has been quiet so far (knock on wood). On the main screen I created network connections by pointing to my server's IP address and then the unRaid /mnt/user/Share Name.

XBMC have just announced support for CrystalHD card. This card can cost as little as $25 and will make any machine that has the ability to plug it in 1080p capable.

 

That includes the AppleTV.

 

PCH prices go up and XBMC prices drop. XBMC feature set obliterates PCH in all but a few license problematic areas and development screams ahead. To me it is a no brainer.

XBMC have just announced support for CrystalHD card. This card can cost as little as $25 and will make any machine that has the ability to plug it in 1080p capable.

 

That includes the AppleTV.

 

PCH prices go up and XBMC prices drop. XBMC feature set obliterates PCH in all but a few license problematic areas and development screams ahead. To me it is a no brainer.

 

Will XBMC bitstream HD audio (DTS-HD MA and TrueHD) from BD rips over HDMI to a HDMI amp -- today?

XBMC have just announced support for CrystalHD card. This card can cost as little as $25 and will make any machine that has the ability to plug it in 1080p capable.

 

That includes the AppleTV.

 

PCH prices go up and XBMC prices drop. XBMC feature set obliterates PCH in all but a few license problematic areas and development screams ahead. To me it is a no brainer.

 

For you, perhaps, but I believe we're comparing apples and oranges.  If you're interested in building a ground-up box for playing your media, and don't mind having the PC experience, it is one viable solution.  For me, I prefer the PCH/DViCo/HDI Dune/Mede8tor/etc. options.  The standalone streamers/players work much more like AV equipment which I and the family are used to and prefer.

 

As for price, which one is cheaper depends on whether you're building a new HTPC or using an existing PC.  A new HTPC (ASRock plus software, for example) will probably run you around $400-500, whereas a streamer/player starts at around $169 for a good basic unit (Mede8tor), and about $350-400 for an arguably better performing, more feature rich unit, like the PCH  and the Dune.  So it may not be as simple as just adding a $25 card for some.  Also, to your point of PCH prices going up, the 200 and 110 are radically different with the 200 having substantially greater capabilities.

 

Lastly, regarding "few license problematic areas", this could be make or break for which product to choose , as Neilt0 points out.  Needs should dictate which way to go, not just price ($25 may be a cheap investment, but if it doesn't do what you need it, it's a waste of money).  Buy the product which does what you need it to, whether it's one of the standalones or HTPC.

 

NAS, I'm glad you've found something that works great for you.  I've been using a DViCo M6500a for almost 2 years with solid results.  I've also owned an Xtreamer and will likely purchase a Dune Base 3.0 or HDX-BD1 in the coming months.  Different strokes . . . 

 

For anyone interested in more info on standalone units, tons more can be found a www.mpcclub.com.  Like this forum, it's full of invaluable information (no, I don't own or work for the site).

 

Y

I'm biased because I've owned just about every generation of HD Media Player, but here's my take.

 

Back in 2003, I got my first HD projector and an DD/DTS A/V amp (I got my first A/V amp in 1991).

 

I started by playing HD content from a PC with a DVI port, and kept upgrading to bigger and better PC equipment as new HD standards came in to play.

 

I gave up in the end, as I could never get to the magic combination of correct frame rate, colour space, black level, audio bitstreaming etc. without buying more equipment and getting more and more frustrated. An ASUS Xonar HDMI Audio Card costs more than a refurb PCH A-110. What's the point?

 

Not to mention trying to shoehorn a Media PC in to the a/v rack, and having a ton of cables hanging off it, with the huge pain of trying to pull it out for upgrades etc. (all of this, I did).

This is before the time of ITX boards and cases.

 

I now have a PCH C-200, and it's not perfect. But I'm on the Beta team, and the latest Beta builds are almost 100% for what I want it for -- playing BD rips and FLAC audio.

 

Another major issue for me, is power consumption. I did some tests with a Watt meter the other day with my C-200. Note that I haven't tested with the hard drive spun down yet:

 

5400rpm 2.5" 320GB (WD)

Booting: 11-14W

Booted with LCD front panel display on full: 11W (disk spun up)

LCD off: 10W


nzbget
------
Paused: 10W

Downloading (10 connections, 16mbit/s, SSL off): 12W

Unpacking (download paused): 13W

Unpacking (whilst downloading): 14W

SSL: no difference in power usage, but download speed is reduced by 

about 10%.

Downloading while watching a Blu-ray (VC1): 14W

 

That last test was enough for me to stop further testing -- Downloading with nzbget at 16mbit/sec while watching a Blu-ray (VC1): 14W

 

I'm much happier now that I just use laptops as a "client", and I have a few Linux boxes for the "heavy lifting" -- usenet download, media playing, NAS.

The biggest hurdle for me with the HTPC solution is lack of DDTHD/DTSMA support.  Sooner or later there will be the right hardware/software combination to make this possible, but even then that will only be under Windows.  I cannot fathom a native solution for PAP through Linux, which is what I would be much more comfortable running for a dedicated Blu-Ray player/streamer.  I don't care/need an all-in-one facebook/twitter/email/internet/youtube + video streaming box.  That's just too much stuff that is better handled by a netbook or laptop.  I have to agree with neilt0 on the consumption side, and Yorgo on the simplicity and acceptance factors.

 

So... I have to decide if I want to go with the PCH C-200, with a pc based Blu-Ray drive and a large, dedicated, active support forum (even if it isn't the friendliest), or the Dune, which has an actual Blu-Ray loader for the drive, looks much sexier, but has a completely closed development environment and limited forum involvement (mpcclub.com is the only forum I've found).  XBMC's GUI is by far the most advanced, and they completely trust their forum for development and debugging.  YAMJ helps bridge the gap for PCH, but I don't know much about the Dune solution.  At this point CES will probably make my decision easier.

 

Besides, it'll take me weeks to run these 2TB drives through their preclear cycles @ 27 hours each. 

aiden,

 

Here are a couple reviews and a "best of" well worth reading.  The Dune BD Prime review also has a comparison of both it and the PCH 200 at the end.  Keep in mind the reviews are a number of firmware upgrades ago, so expect improvements in both players since they were originally written up.

 

http://www.mpcclub.com/download.php?f=review_hdi_bd_prime30.pdf

http://www.mpcclub.com/download.php?f=review_pch_c200.pdf

http://www.mpcclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22057

 

Y

I am weighing all my options right now also. Not quite sure what I want but I am leaning towards something Atom 330 and Nvidia ION based.  A lot of those boards have HDMI on them which I need and they are nice and small.  Will probably run XBMC on it and use it.  I have been extremely happy with my modded original XBOX that is running XBMC but it will not play HD content at all.  With everything moving that way and me having a 1080p TV I need to start looking at something that will be able to play that HD content.

Yorgo, thanks for the links.  I had read most of those before, but it was good to go over it again.

 

prostuff1, as a software engineer, the HTPC solution is the most attractive for me.  XBMC has a lot going for it, and you have the ultimate flexibility because you're using a real computer.  However, in my case I want Dolby Digital True HD / DTS Master Audio lossless output, which is only available via Protected Audio Path (PAP), which is not possible with the current ION systems without adding an expensive Xonar card and forcing you to use Windows.  Linux will most likely never have a player that achieves PAP.  Since I have no desire to add ANOTHER Windows machine to my network that has to be updated daily and virus scanned weekly, I'm actually leaning away from the HTPC solution.  Oh, and it's much more complicated for my wife and children to use.  As a sidenote, we can all thank Hollywood for their continued relentless pursuit of limiting usability in the name of content protection.

 

neit0 has given me a lot of insight into the active PCH response to their botched release of the C-200, and they seem to listen to their forum support groups.  So, how does Dune deal with the internet community, specifically forum groups that are trying to help them debug and suggest?  Do they listen, do they do their own thing and let you find out on your own?

As a sidenote, we can all thank Hollywood for their continued relentless pursuit of limiting usability in the name of content protection.

 

Indeed.  A futile cat and mouse game which only really succeeds in annoying their customers.  Still the suckers that we are we keep going back for more...  I must have paid for some of my movies 4 times.  Cinema, VHS, DVD and now BluRay......

 

 

My guess, based on the current progress, you'll have a direct-show solution for all of the HD audio codecs, that will work with an Asus Zonar, ATI 5XXX series Video card AND Clarkdale I3 and I5 Intel CPU's, in a month or two - FFDSHOW.  It's about 85-95% there already....  Yes, windows only, but since the work is open source, I don't think it will take long for the Linux gurus to add it into XBMC. 

 

The Popbox: http://gizmodo.com/5439293/syabas-popbox-get-ready-for-the-new-media-streamer-champ

 

$129, but will not play BDs.

$129, but will not play BDs.

 

Hm... I guess I'm confused.  From the link you provided...

 

... it'll still pump out full 1080p video over HDMI.

 

Is that saying it will upconvert DVD rips, but no BD?  Or do you mean it has no BD drive?  The BD drive is not a requirement for me, although it's a nice-to-have.  At $130, I could afford to buy a separate BD player, like an OPPO.  That price point is far below the Dune 3.0 Base.

It won't play BD discs, BD ISOs or BDMV folder rips.

 

The C-200 will play BD ISOs and BDMV folder rips even if you don't have a BD drive in it.

Yeah I've been all over the NMT boards since you posted it, and I gathered that information.  The Popbox is a mainstream consumer product aimed at mass distribution.  Simple, clean, and low-tech.  It's got a big processor to do the BD stuff, but without a license it will likely stay away from that content altogether.  We'll have to see what they plan on to replace the A-110, as I fully expect that box to have internal storage + BD file playability.  That would be the competitor to the Dune Base, with the C-200 being the competitor to the Dune Prime.  It will be interesting to see how HDI responds to the Popbox.

I did some reading and looking around after you posted the link to the popbox.  It seems like it would be great for people that just want something to hook up in there environment and it works.  It is pretty low priced and seems to be able to do quite a bit.  If I was to go with an "all in one" box it would probably be the C-200 and add in a BD/DVD combo drive.

 

I don't plan to build/buy anything right now and am kind of waiting to see what happens with Intels new chips with there integrated graphics on the CPU.  From the prelim reading I have done those on chip graphics support PAP and HDMI 1.3 and are very capable at decoding 1080p HD video. If I decide to build a system I will more then likely install Windows 7 (have a free copy through school) and XBMC (or maybe Linux and XBMC). I have been looking at Atom Dual-Cores and ION based boards and have found a couple I like but I am in no rush to buy anything.

 

I'm just going to sit back and wait to see what happens and then go from there.