ohlwiler Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Monoprice http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10245&cs_id=1024501&p_id=1313&seq=1&format=2 Link to comment
tr0910 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Thanks, I noticed the monoprice ones, but was trying to find a 7 to 1 splitter like the Norco one, and no luck.... Link to comment
Johnm Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 To my knowledge the norco one is only available from norco. I am sure they OEM'd it from another vendor but I have yet to find it. I even tried molex directly. I have some old Dell or compaq one that are similar (and much nicer) from a server pull. but there is no part number. I am using the norco one in 3 norco cases. While they work, they are cheaply made. Be careful plugging it all together. I had a few pins push out of the connector instead of plugging in. I think I posted a picture a few pages back. The norco wires have a plug for each backplane plug and one extra for the fanwall. I would try to avoid using a bunch of 1to2 spliters in a big group like the norco needs you are sure to get a bad connection in there somewhere. Link to comment
ohlwiler Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I would recommend against using a single connection from a power supply to power 24 drives. Most power supply wiring is 18 gauge with some 20 gauge and 16 gauge wire occasionally used. During disk start-up the 12 volt line current draw is in excess of 50 amps. The "Handbook of Electronic Tables and Formulas" specifies maximum current draw for an 18 gauge wire at 16 amps. This is a very conservative figure, but exceeding it by a factor of three is not something I would do. Apart from the safety issues, the voltage drop from the wire alone is on the order of 1 volt. This does not include the connector resistances which at such high currents could also prove problematic. I wouldn't power more than 8 drives off a typical 18 gauge power supply connection. I've cannibalized old power supplies to steal their molex wiring and hacked off the SATA connectors from a new power supply to solder on the molex strand. http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm Link to comment
Rajahal Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 You don't need splitters at all in Norco cases. Only one molex on each backplane needs to be plugged in. The other is for a redundant power supply. Most PSUs will have 6 molex plugs, so you shouldn't need anything else. Link to comment
Johnm Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 You don't need splitters at all in Norco cases. Only one molex on each backplane needs to be plugged in. The other is for a redundant power supply. Most PSUs will have 6 molex plugs, so you shouldn't need anything else. The poster was only interested in powering 1 molex per backplane. His power supply only has 3 molex plugs total and was looking for this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816133040 cheaper. That or an alternative. Molex used to sell these awesome "do it yourself" plugs that you could plug into a backplane or row of drives. You then run the wires into the plug and snap the back of the plug closed, add a single male plug at the end of the wire creating a custom 1 to xx splitter of perfect length. Similar to this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7616/ele-345/Standard_4_Pin_Low_Profile_Easy_Install_Connector_w_Cover_-_Black.html?tl=g51c387s1001 , but a bit sturdier and a lot cheaper. Link to comment
bman Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Still haven't noticed too many folks posting temperature data for a parity check when their 4224 case is full of drives. Does anyone else have info to share on this? (Thanks to the couple that did already) I've got the 4220 at the office and I am really disappointed that I cannot get the temps below about 41C during normal operation - full parity checks see the drives approach 50C regularly. I'll be changing the cooling config to keep things cooler in that one, but wanted to know what other folks were getting with the 120mm fan wall in the 4224, as I think that's my next move for the home server. Thanks, Byron Link to comment
Johnm Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Still haven't noticed too many folks posting temperature data for a parity check when their 4224 case is full of drives. Does anyone else have info to share on this? (Thanks to the couple that did already) I've got the 4220 at the office and I am really disappointed that I cannot get the temps below about 41C during normal operation - full parity checks see the drives approach 50C regularly. I'll be changing the cooling config to keep things cooler in that one, but wanted to know what other folks were getting with the 120mm fan wall in the 4224, as I think that's my next move for the home server. Thanks, Byron What is your ambient room temp? My ESXi box still has stock cooling and is about 35c-37c under full load parity check with the stock fans. (somewhat noisy.. I have the quieter stock fans, not the screamers. so it could be worse) My unRAID backup servers drives are running about 34c-36c under the same load with noctua 120's (Almost silent). Both setups have 15-16 drives in them. Both are a mix of brands, the ESXi has mostly hitachi 3TB LP's and 2 7200's I do find my seagates run warmer and my Samsungs cooler. Some things to check: Open the vents on filled drive bay. Close the vents on empty drive bays. Fill in the holes/gaps in the fanwall (this was a huge improvement). EDIT: I just rebuilt a drive in my ESXI box overnight, the array was at about 32c-34C when it it was at 99% on 4 factory fans in the fanwall and NO rear fans. Link to comment
bman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 What is your ambient room temp? My ESXi box still has stock cooling and is about 35c-37c under full load parity check with the stock fans. (somewhat noisy.. I have the quieter stock fans, not the screamers. so it could be worse) Ambient temps in that room are probably between 24C and 27C depending upon the season. It may well be the combination of 7200 rpm drives and the full case - all fans are running, no empty drive slots. I'll probably adapt a 120mm fan wall and remove the rear fans to kick cooling up a notch in the 4220. I was more curious to know whether the 4224 had an improved design w.r.t. cooling. It seems like the way to go for a case upgrade if I too can keep temps down to below 40C during full parity check. Thanks for the insight. Link to comment
ohlwiler Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I'll probably adapt a 120mm fan wall and remove the rear fans to kick cooling up a notch in the 4220. I was more curious to know whether the 4224 had an improved design w.r.t. cooling. It seems like the way to go for a case upgrade if I too can keep temps down to below 40C during full parity check. Because of the high ambient temperature, and the heat load a full case with 7200 drives presents, minimizing air leaks is paramount as Johnm stated. Are you concerned with noise on the 4220 box? If not, then moving to 120mm fans is a waste of time, Upgrading the 80mm fans is adequate. With high density arrays it is about the negative pressure that can be created in between the drives and fans. Free air CMF ratings are of little use, you are concerned with pressure, and for that you want high RPMs, thick fans and no leaks. I suspect you could cool a full 4224 with a single 80x80x38 Delta FFB0812UHE running at 7500rpm (102cfm, 31mmH2O, 62dBA). Link to comment
Johnm Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I just going to say. it sounds like the 7200's are part of the problem, I am almost all 5400's. I have only a few 7200's in each unit. you might need to go with high air movement screamers and a fan controller to get them just right. possibly turning it up with parity checks... perhaps some sort of pwm and heat sensor hardware or script? Link to comment
siamsquare Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Yo, Just received my norco 4224 V3; There is no manual in the box and was wondering what the small switches are on the SAS backplanes in the case! Any1 an idea? Also where do I connect the 2 connectors coming from the Norco Case...are those Nic1 and 2 led or T-SGPIO? gr33tz Link to comment
Rajahal Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Yo, Just received my norco 4224 V3; There is no manual in the box and was wondering what the small switches are on the SAS backplanes in the case! Any1 an idea? Also where do I connect the 2 connectors coming from the Norco Case...are those Nic1 and 2 led or T-SGPIO? gr33tz The SAS backplanes contain some connectors that are only used when testing the backplanes in the factory. You can ignore them. You only need to hook up the molex power cables (1 per backplane) and the miniSAS cables (also 1 per backplane). I'm not sure which connectors you are referring to, but the only ones that are actually required are the PWR (power button) and RST (reset button) connectors. I personally prefer to leave the HDD and NIC cables unconnected, because I don't care when the drives and network connection are active - it is a file server, so they are almost always active. Link to comment
Johnm Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yo, Just received my norco 4224 V3; There is no manual in the box and was wondering what the small switches are on the SAS backplanes in the case! Any1 an idea? Also where do I connect the 2 connectors coming from the Norco Case...are those Nic1 and 2 led or T-SGPIO? gr33tz are your backplanes yellow instead of green? Link to comment
siamsquare Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yo, They are yellow and the attachement screws which keep the backplanes secure are evene made of plastic instead of metal! gr33tz Link to comment
Rajahal Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Yo, They are yellow and the attachement screws which keep the backplanes secure are evene made of plastic instead of metal! gr33tz Wow, that is sordid news. I hope Norco's quality isn't taking a serious turn for the worse. Link to comment
Johnm Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yo, They are yellow and the attachement screws which keep the backplanes secure are evene made of plastic instead of metal! gr33tz Wow, that is sordid news. I hope Norco's quality isn't taking a serious turn for the worse. I guessed they were the new yellow ones. The Backplane the V3 (front double USB) used (Ver 3.7) seems to be discontinued and out of stock. My server is still missing backplanes. the new yellow ones are supposed to incompatible with all previous norco servers. I wonder if the tray design has changed? I noticed that the 4224 trays that xcase is selling are now red. I do not know if that is an xcase special order or norco wide. it is possible the it is just the mount that changed. if you can post some photos, that would be great. I am a little upset with Norco right now. They lost my backplanes after they received them and were refusing to ship me replacements when they had them. now they are out of stock again. I have never been treated so bad by a hardware vendor. You have to send them 10 emails then call them to get a 3 word response then ignored for weeks. I should have gone through newegg again. Norco actually suggested I buy another server just for parts (that would have the yellow backplanes at this point anyways that are not compatible?!?!) for sever that I received defective. Excuse me? They act like you are bothering them when you server is broken. it is now going on 4 months. Link to comment
madburg Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 If you read my previous posts, you were better off have returning it to newegg and getting a new one. My experience with there support is a big thumbs down. First and last norco, will try a SuperMicro in the future, comes with dual PSU's already $900. You cant beat the norco price and as long as you dont get a bad unit. But you are getting what you paid. I supermicro clear shows better build quality, and guess what you can download a full blown manual before purchasing one, hows that for an idea Link to comment
Johnm Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Manual? whats that? norco has no manuals. So I finally got my replacement backplanes from July.. July... that was over 5 months ago... keep in mind this entire chassis has already been replaced for being defective. and guess what? They sent SATA ones instead of SAS.. OK not a huge deal? Well maybe if they worked. they came crushed by UPS. I send Mike at norco an email with photos. Asking him to do a UPS damage claim. his reply "they are ok to use"... umm the SAS plug is broken off. In addition i have a bent tab on the slot the backplane goes in.. you can not insert a backplane into the slot. in order to fix that would include taking pretty much every screw out of the chassis and disassembling the entire drive bay assembly. that would be about a 4 hour project. So I call Mike back, and I ask him again to file a UPS claim to replace the broken parts. his response... "I'm sorry, that is against company policy" and hung up on me. sorry to vent openly, but people should be aware of how Norco works. I have never been so insulted in over 25years of dealing with hardware manufacturers in the IT industry. @madburg, you are 100% correct. i just called newegg and they are calling norco on my behalf. got to love newegg. on more reason to go with a tower and 5in3 bays or a supermicro rackmount. Edit: here is the how to replace the bent tab video: It figures I would have a bent tab on the bottom backplane. this is going to be a crazy field strip and gut. I guess this would be a good time to drill holes in my side panel to mount drives internally when I gut it. Link to comment
madburg Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 A friend of my was doing a unRAID norco build as well, his came in with 1 or 2 (dont remember now) backplanes bad and some leds were not working on other backplanes, he took my advise and RMA'ed it and got a completely new one. Lost only a few days (compared to the amount of time I lost and ended up RMA'ing it in the end anyway.). Thats my recommendation if you dont want to pull your hair out... Link to comment
Johnm Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Unless this newest version with the yellow backplanes is awesome.... I am not going to recommend their chassis...or at least with a grain of salt if I do. The funny part is, my older units are running like tanks. this one is an albatross... maybe it is just this generation of chassis? It is quite clear these are for hobbyists and not for the IT industry. Link to comment
Witchdoc Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 What chasis would you recommend instead? I'm looking to do an esxi build and would like a case with at least 24 bays but prefer 32-36 if there is such a thing. Thinking of running either 2 unraid vms or unraid and whs. WAs thinking of getting the norco but after hearing your complaints I'll pass. I don't mind spending 1000-2000 on a case as long as it is good build quality. What model super micro would you use or what other brand? Link to comment
madburg Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 If I am not mistaken, SM only makes one 4U chassis last time I checked. Go to their website and check it out , you can also download the manual, pretty lengthy. Before pulling the trigger. The one I saw came with redundant power supply with the chassis and was around $900 bucks. If u do go with one, I would love to see a post with pics. I remember reading somewhere chenbro (I think) made an 8U chassis.... Link to comment
Johnm Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 After my rant today (and calling back again).. i got an email from norco without warning. They shipped me out a box full of backplanes for free and a coupon for free shipping on my next Chassis order.. to little to late? for a hobbyist case it is a good "value".. as madburg said. if it works, your good, if you get a lemon, good luck. They just started shipping a new series of the 4224, maybe they got it right? With some minor modding, my 4224's are whisper quiet. remember, i do have 3, and one is just an albatross (they stopped making that revision [front dual USB with 3.7 backplanes] almost as fast as it came out) and customer support for me was .. just.. well insulting. if it is for home use, the 4224 is still a good deal. otherwise the supermicro or chenbro are your next best bet and the price is doubled. The SM's and chenbros do have power supplies and PWM fans and can run quieter with PWM complaint serverboard (but the PSU is still loud). they also support sideband if you run hardware raid.. not that you will if your looking for unraid. the biggest Supermicros we run at work are CSE-846TQ-R900B's and they are very nice. especially when paired with supermicro boards (anything else can have issues). We also run several different flavors of the 3u chassis including 933t and SC936E26-R1200B boxes. all solid.. Anything bigger then that, we run HP clusters with Fiber channel DAS boxes or giant EMC boxes (an entire rack). you can get good deals on SM's on ebay and craigslist if you don't mind an older one. The lan-li cube full of 5in3 drive cages is not a bad option. Link to comment
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