Norco 4224 Thread


Guest Jomp

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Don't forget to close the vents on the drive cages you're not using. and of course open them on the drives you are.

 

I also went back and sealed up the cable holes in the mid fan bracket that I was not using with painters tape. It was pulling some air back into the fan wall gap through there instead of from the front.

 

There are vents on the drive cages?? I did not know this... Where do you access them?

 

 

CLOSED:

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OPEN:

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so is this case a good purchase? do the 120 fan bracket help with the noise?

 

The bracket doesn't help with the noise but the fans you buy for the brackets might. Most of the noise comes from the 2 rear fans. They're very powerful and loud!

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so is this case a good purchase? do the 120 fan bracket help with the noise?

 

Yes, this case is a good purchase for a home server. it is hard to match what this case offers for the price point, even with the cost of replacing the fans.

 

about the fan wall and 120's:

In theory, Yes.

 

The reason is because you can replace the 4 80mm fans with 3 120mm that produce the same CFM with fewer fans spinning at a lower  RPM.

 

the result should be a quieter system. of course your  mileage will vary depending on what you buy.

 

Also some people are concerned with static pressure on the replacement fans for the Norco's to ensure they can get the air to properly pass over the hard drives.

 

Also, as 221bBS pointed out, the rear fans are a killer on the ears.

those do need to get replaced if you're putting the server in a home without a dedicated server room.

 

 

Also, don't forget the physical size of the server, it is larger then most PC cases. For some people, modifying  something like an Antec 1200 is better suited for them (and more expensive).

 

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so is this case a good purchase? do the 120 fan bracket help with the noise?

 

The fan bracket with new fans can help a little, but the rear fans help the most.

 

The four stock 80 mm fans are 31 dBA each and move 35 cfm per fan.  After an exhaustive search of about every 120mm fan on the market, you cannot get any under 20 dBA (don't always believe the manufacturers ratings, look for actual test data) that move enough air where three will equal the stock fan plate.  I tried three 42.7 cfm fans (@ 16 dBA), which is a tad under the total cfm of the stock mid fans, and my drives were just too hot (ran around 40C in a 25C ambient).  So I am attempting to increase my cfm by adding one 66 cfm fan that was tested to be 26 dBA.  So I add slightly to my sound, but can move more air than the stock fan plate.  The 66 cfm fan is in the mail, so hopeful I will get it in a day or two and see if it drops my HDD temps.

 

So assuming it does work, I think about the best you can do is move from fans that are 31 dbA to at least one 26 dBA and 2 16 dBA fans.

 

Four 31 dBA fans run 37 dBA together.  Three 26 dBA fans would be 30.77 dBA.

 

Studies have show that for perception of loudness, a 10 dB increase will sound twice as loud to the human ear (even though 3dB is double the power, and 20 dB is 10X the sound pressure).

 

Or another way to view it, with the 5 stock fans, your combined sound level is 54.1 dBA.

 

Replace the two rear fans with 31 dBA fans, and your combined sound level is 38 dBA.

 

Replace all 5 fans with 21 dBA "silent" fans, and your combine sound level is 28 dBA.

 

Replacing the rear fans make the biggest difference (16 dBA).  

 

So in my 4220, I have three 120 mm fans and one 80 mm (rear fan).  Hopefully it will end up with one 26dBA and three 16 dBA fans.  Overall noise should be 27 dBA when finished.  I think 27-30 dBA is about as quiet you can make one of these large cases and still have adequate cooling.  I feel like I can only get away with one 80 mm fan in the rear because I am running a 45W processor.  A 95W Xeon or something similar and I think I would need two rear fans, and probably stronger  (ie louder) ones too.  I also only have about half my drive bays full (with green drives, other than parity).  Double up my drives and keep them all spun up, and I may need 3 66 cfm fans on my fan plate to cool them all.  The good thing is that by design, this rarely ever happens in unRAID (20-24 drives spun up).

 

Alot depends on your build and total heat dissipation of your components.

 

Another interesting fan fact is that CFM isn't everything.  One test site creates an air tunnel (simulates a case) with a fan installed blowing over a heating pad.  They can measure sound levels, air velocity, air volume, and cooling of the heating pad.  Often, fans with lower cfm are more effective at cooling the heating plate than fans with higher CFM's.  Some fans push air in a straight line and others swirl it in a vortex.  How the fan blades actually move the air can make a lower CFM fan more effective than a higher one.  There is almost too much variation for the average PC builder to make an informed decision when it comes to fans.  It's almost trial and error, or find something that worked for someone else in a similar system and just buy that.

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  • 1 month later...

I agree that Rev2 Rev3 is the cleanest, but I can see why they added the USB ports back into Rev3 Rev4.  For normal usage they aren't needed, but if you need to troubleshoot something it is very nice to be able to hook up a USB keyboard to the front of the case.

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I just got this case, and I'm afraid I'm about to ask a stupid (and potentially embarassing question).  I see the molex connectors, easy enough to setup.  I see the SAS connectors, also easy enough.  However, what are the (they look like) fan headers for?  Any ideas?

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Thats rev4 guys! Johnm can you please post a picture of the wiring coming out to the MB area please.

 

Rev1) USB on left handle.

 

Rev2) Full lenght handles. Had ultra thin translucent wire with large connectors at the end (Silk screen was at least 50% rubbed off on brand new units) Eveyone I knew got this one had some sort of problem (led lights dead, backplanes, etc.)

 

Rev3) Full lenght handles. They changed the wires to come into the chassis as thin translucent wires and then transition via connectores to regular (color coded) cables with proper end connectors. One less MB stand-off than Rev2 (dont know about Rev1, as I did not have one or know anyone with one to compare stand-offs) I have this one.

 

Rev4) Power and reset on the left, 2 USB's on the right. Now looks like what Johnm posted a picture off (interested on seeing the cabling they provided)

 

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I don't think the wire change is enough to call it a full rev.

 

in the first rev i believe they changed the backplane once and the fans once?

 

Regardless, It is not my photo, i found that on the [H]ardforums. They are calling it Rev3 there also.

 

Newegg is shipping rev1 again.. or least a few people besides me have gotten them this month.

at least one other person on [H]ardforums was also missing the screw pack like i am. It makes the chassis useless without the drive screws.

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A friend of mine went for the 4224 recently, got a rev2 case from mwave, had all sorts o problems like my first one (rev2). He return it to mwave. Order one from newegg and received a rev1. Some are getting rev4 (unknow source at the moment right? Or did they meantion?) I should not be like playing the lotto. And the reseller's are still displaying the rev1 picture, I personally find it annoying. If apple sold iPad/iPhone, etc.. and did not tell you if you were getting a 1/2/3/4 etc... you'd be pissed.

 

They can call there rev what they wish over there, we are up to rev4 here  ;D

 

A wiring change is more than enought to justify a rev (and they omitted one stand off). If your car had a modified main wiring harness because they found issues, it a different build of the car. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

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I agree, the new Revs need new part numbers.

 

I am a bit irritated that I got a rev1 when others are getting the latest version.

 

I also noticed it went up $30 in price, it is now $429.99 on newegg.

 

It was normally $399.99. I think I got my last one for $320 with free shipping a few weeks ago.

 

now i feel like you're paying for the new machining and getting the old style...

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I need Newegg to put this thing on sale again.  I've only got 600gb free on my 16 drive 30tb box and I need a new case for more drives.

 

technicaly it is..

15% off w/ promo code NORJ15, limited offer

 

It is $63.75 off right now. but they jacked the price up and added $20 shipping.

 

It is $381.23 to your doorstep right now.

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I caught that in another thread.  The jacked up price and shipping sucks though.

 

I see mwave has it for $375 free shipping.

 

Mwave also does 2% cash back on ebates vs Newegg's 1% so there is another $10

 

Debating if it's a good enough deal to jump in...

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Two things.

 

One

Newegg shipped me a "screw pack" for my missing screws...umm...  yeah.

They sent me some motherboard standoffs and random screws from some normal cheapo case. A Rosewill maybe?

 

I called back and said "This is not going to work, can you send norco screws?"

Instead, they overnighted me a new RPC-4224 with call tags from my other one.

I told them that was insane, that normal shipping is fine.

He said "it is our mistake, we will fix it ASAP". I pointed out is was Norco's mistake not theirs...

He didn't care. oh well. I am sure norco would have mailed me screws if I emailed them...

 

Now i remember why I use newegg.

lets see what Rev i get this time.....

 

Two

I have had 4 PM's in the last week and there are some other threads about cooling on the 4224 (and other models).

Here is my set up for those that are asking;

 

I installed the 3x120mm Fan bracket.

three "pressure optimized" Noctua NF-P12-1300 120mm fans in the Fanwall.

Two Arctic Cooling ACF8 Pro Pro PWM 80mm Case Fans back on the rear.

One Crappy silent fan (Enermax in this case) on top of my SAS controllers.

 

Edit: I should mention. some people have had to modify the ACF8 fans to fit a norco, the plastic drive cage can hit the fan next to it, they snip the plastic off where it hits, mine did not have this issue. /edit

 

The Noctua's are at full speed as are all of the rest of the fans.

The case is almost silent. you can hear the air moving through it if you get close.

From across the room, you have to listen for it to notice it.

 

I also have a floor fan in the room on low circulating the air the room. this is much louder then the server.

I do this because I have several SFF servers on a shelf close to the ceiling and they get a warm air pocket around them.

 

This was the important part, I blocked the wire cutouts in the fanwall so that the air is pulled from the front through the drive cages instead of recirculated from the motherboard through those holes.

at first i used masking tape. It eventually got sucked INTO the drive bay area the fans were that strong. I also think the glue started to dry out/give way.

Right now I have foam insulation in there.

It is working great. but, I am a bit worried about how long it will last.

In my experience, it tends to deteriorate in a few seasons when I use it for window insulation.

For my other norco, I stole a few of my girlfriends ankle socks and shoved them into the holes.

 

I would also cover all of the extra screw holes in the fan wall area. I have not covered mine because i still have the shipping film on my norco and it is blocking the holes for me.

I might put a dab of window caulk in my screw holes (only the screw holes) next time i am working around the house.

 

My rooms ambient temp is usually about 76F or so.

It has been 100F outside here the last week. that has crept the rooms ambient temp up a little to closer to 79 with no change to drive temps.

My drives are all in the low 30 range with the exception of the samsungs, those are reporting 27ish. I think they lie.

 

 

 

I should have taken the pictures AFTER I blew the case out with compressed air.. not Before... i definitely am pulling gunk into the server through the drive bays.

 

The fan just sitting on my MV8's.

It has not moved yet. it has dropped the temps way down.

If yours vibrates or moves, you could zip tie it to the cards.

Yz0jb.png

 

My foam insulation.

Warning: This kind of foam will deteriorate in a few years turning into a craptastic mess.

I am looking for a better solution. it is so cheap i can replace it every few years but that is a pain.

My other norco has bits of an old T-shirt and some girls ankle sport socks for testing.

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can you please post a picture of the wiring coming out to the MB area please.

 

 

I guess I am now the owner of the latest version.

 

I now have all 3 major design versions sitting here.

 

Newegg is shipping the newest, but I'll guess it is still potluck for a while what you will get.

 

they got rid of the HDD activity light. I'll guess most people don't use it with controller cards anyways in your typical build.

 

They got rid of the screamer fans on the back and have the same fan as the mid fans. yes, it is still 4x 80mm. no 120mm fanwall. it is almost tolerable right out of the box.

 

new handles are not very handy for moving the server anymore. i can only get two fingers into them. three if i shove them in.

 

no more ribbon cable anywhere.

 

it is possible there are more motherboard standoff holes then before. I don't remember so many clustered so close. I'll look tomorrow.

 

 

rest is about the same as previous generations.

 

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Thanks for posting the pics.  Too bad about the handles, since I'm sure you know these cases can be very heavy when filled with drives.  I suppose Norco intends the handles to only be used for sliding the server in and out of a server rack.  I support the removal of the HDD activity light...your hard drives will be active most of the time anyway, so why do you need a light telling you that?  I generally leave HDD activity lights disconnected when I'm building servers.  Glad to hear they replaced the rear 80mm fans as well.

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can you please post a picture of the wiring coming out to the MB area please.

 

They got rid of the screamer fans on the back and have the same fan as the mid fans. yes, it is still 4x 80mm. no 120mm fanwall. it is almost tolerable right out of the box.

 

 

WHAT!

These rear fans are the quiet ones?  WOW.  I can't imagine how loud the others were.  This box is in my office and when I'm in there it sounds like my server room at work.  When I'm in the family room watching TV I keep thinking the washing machine is going. 

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+1 thanks for sharing Johnm, especially the pictures. I think most of the things are a step in the right direction but dont agree with the handles. But like Raj meantion once on rack rails in a rack they would be fine, so it wouldnt be an issue for someone like me.

 

The problem IS though with the norco rails for this chassis, it does not pull out far enought (hits the stops) and there by you cant take the cover off (I am referring to a high density rack install... a server right above it.)

 

Like your idea of a large fan over the sas cards. I bought a few small fans, screws dont work, this would do the trick. I am assuming your pushing air down on to those SAS chipset heat sinks?

 

Best of luck with it and your project.

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