[SOLVED] Remove Data Disk to Upgrade to Dual Parity

[bombz]

Hello, I am limited by physical hard drive space in my case, with a max of 12 physical disks.

I am currently maxed out with 12 physical disks.
I would like to implement dual parity. 
Please see attached screenshot <001> to review the current setup with UnRaid STOPPED
Please see attached screenshot <002> to review the current setup with UnRaid STARTED

 

I want to go about this the proper way and wanted to reach out to the community. Keep in mind I am going to buy some new disk for dual parity (8TB or 10TB) I have yet to decide.
* means I am unsure of this step * 
My plan (correct me if I am wrong)
01. Add new parity disk - replace current 6TB with upgraded disk 
*02. unassign disk 7 (empty disk)
*03. start array and allow new parity to rebuild with disk 7 (empty disk) unassigned / physically disconnect the disk

04. Allow array to complete rebuild
05. Shut down array

06. Add second parity disk (upgraded disk) in disk 7 physical slot

07. Bring array online, assign new disk (to secondary parity)
08. Allow rebuild to complete.
09. Completed

 

As I am pulling the 6TB partiy out (current parity disk) and upgrading to a larger size parity, I can reuse this 6TB parity in place of a current data disk of a smaller size, which would expand my data disk.
In this case disk 11 = 2TB. I should be able to:
01. Power down the array
02. swap disk 11 (2TB for 6TB)
03. Bring array online
04. Allow for rebuild
05. Completed

 

Let me know if I am on the right path here. I appreciate the community assistance and support.

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by bombz

[JorgeB]

13 hours ago, bombz said:

01. Add new parity disk - replace current 6TB with upgraded disk 
*02. unassign disk 7 (empty disk)
*03. start array and allow new parity to rebuild with disk 7 (empty disk) unassigned / physically disconnect the disk

You can only do this if you do a new config first.

[bombz]

6 hours ago, johnnie.black said:

You can only do this if you do a new config first.

Right. Thank you for your response!

So where would be the spot to run that? I always hesitate on new config as I do not want to lose any data. Need to recall the process.

[JorgeB]

-Tools -> New Config -> Retain current configuration: All -> Apply

 

Then unassign the disk you want to remove (you can move the other data disks up a slot if you want), unassign old parity, assign new parity (or just assign new one if old one is already disconnected) and start array to begin parity sync.

 

 

[bombz]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:22 AM, johnnie.black said:

-Tools -> New Config -> Retain current configuration: All -> Apply

 

Then unassign the disk you want to remove (you can move the other data disks up a slot if you want), unassign old parity, assign new parity (or just assign new one if old one is already disconnected) and start array to begin parity sync.

 

 

Hello,
I have ordered (2X) 10TB drives. Both will be used for dual parity. However, I need to remove disk 7 to free up a physical slot for the secondary parity. 

So I am understanding correctly:
01. Stop array
02. Unassisgn disk 7
03. Tools -> New Config -> Preserve assignments
04. Apply (this will NOT affect any data on the disks, correct)?
05. Shut down server
06. Pull disk 7 (which has data on it that I need to keep!)
09. Install 10TB disk
10. Boot server
11. Assign 10TB disk to slot 2 parity section
12. Start array and allow parity to sync (this will NOT rebuild data that was on disk 7 that is now removed)?

 

As disk 7 is pulled out of the server and has data on it, I should be able to access this data via a standalone unbuntu system I have. I then can organize this data locally, and when finished upload it to the server on a disk that has space?

I always have a bad gut feeling when I do this process as I would be upset if I lost data. However, once this is set with these 12 disks, this will be the final implementation moving forward. From here on out it will be simple swaps for larger disk in the array.

I hope I am making the correct call using a dual parity setup.

Let me know! Thanks, 

Edited April 14, 2020 by bombz

[JorgeB]

First remove disk7 and add the new 10TB disk, then do the new config, after the sync is done you can then use UD to copy the data from old disk7 to the new array.

[bombz]

4 hours ago, johnnie.black said:

First remove disk7 and add the new 10TB disk, then do the new config, after the sync is done you can then use UD to copy the data from old disk7 to the new array.

Skills that pay the bills man!
Thank you. I clearly over complicate things. My gratitude to you!

[bombz]

On 4/14/2020 at 5:00 AM, johnnie.black said:

First remove disk7 and add the new 10TB disk, then do the new config, after the sync is done you can then use UD to copy the data from old disk7 to the new array.

You're going to hate me as I always am wary on this process as it is not burned into my brain. I have a new plan

 

I am in possession of (2X) 10TB disk

You can see my current array setup in the screen shot
(1X) 6TB parity
(11X) data
*Disk 7 = empty*

My new plan:
01. pull disk 7, removing it from the array
02. pull parity and swap with new 10TB parity
The array would then come online with:
(1X) 10TB parity (allow for rebuild/sync)
(10X) data
*leaving a physical disk slot or space within the chassis for future dual parity*

 

Would my process remain as you stated?
01. Shut down server
02. Physically remove disk7 *leaving this bay empty*
03. Physically swap parity disk 6TB for 10TB 

04. Boot server (do NOT start array)
05. Leave disk 7 in the disk drop down menu, unassigned
06. Tools > New config (do I preserve current assignments = none?)
07. Start the array and allow parity to rebuild on new 10TB disk
08. Parity completes, shut down server and swap data disks as per usual method

I realize I am long winded with these steps, I want to be sure I am going about this right correct way. I hope you can understand as I need a refresher .... again (ha-ha).

Thank you kindly!

[itimpi]

Looks correct.    In Step 6) I would recommend choosing the option to keep current assignments, and then make the changes you want before starting the array as that is means you are less likely to make an error. 
 

if you intend to use disk 7 as a new data disk I would leave it assigned as that means parity will be built taking it into account.

 

[bombz]

3 hours ago, itimpi said:

Looks correct.    In Step 6) I would recommend choosing the option to keep current assignments, and then make the changes you want before starting the array as that is means you are less likely to make an error. 
 

if you intend to use disk 7 as a new data disk I would leave it assigned as that means parity will be built taking it into account.

 

Thank you for confirming.
I will keep current assignments, that makes sense and is what I would like to do. I want disk 7 to no longer exist (unassigned slot)

I do not intend to use disk 7 right away, I will have some juggling of disk as I move forward. All I really want to do is remove disk 7 (the assigned disk) out of the array so I have the physical slot in the future for dual parity.
Once the new parity is added I will be swapping data disk for larger sizes slowly expanding the array.
That way in time when I am ready, I have the gap open to add a second parity.
 

[bombz]

Hello again,

I am making progress and soon to be moving my UnRAID to a new chassis. I have taken a screenshot of my current disk list from the UnRAID GUI so I can match serial numbers to disk slots for reference while i am doing this project.
Before I move my hardware to a new chassis, UnRAID only needs to know via GUI which disk is in which slot, correct? 
I don't need to physically hook them up to the same SATA ports during the move? Correct me if I am wrong.

To reiterate my process, I have decided to do it in steps rather then combining steps, as stated in previous posts above.

My first step is to remove disk 7 completely from the current array in production presently, which would leave a physical slot open for future dual parity:

To remove disk 7 from my current production array:
01. Stop UnRAID
02. From the 'Main' menu > Disk 7 > unassigned
03. Tools > New Config > Keep Current Assignments > Apply
04. Main > Start Array
05. Will my array come back online without disk 7, giving me the ability to physically remove the disk?

*please add any notes or comments to this*

Disk Upgrading / Swapping:

01. Shut down server
02. Physically remove Parity Disk @ 6TB
03. Physically replace parity disk with 10TB
04. Power on server
05. UnRAID should detect new disk, assign new parity (10TB)
06. Start array
07. Allow parity to rebuild.

I think the above is my best method?
Once disk 7 is physically removed, and new parity is rebuilt, it should be rinse and repeat to upgrade and swap the remaining disk until I have completed the process.

 

Added note: all disk in the array have been previously precleared, and new disk is precleared. Since I am moving current UnRAID disk and re-using disk that had data on them, do I need to re-run another preclear on the disk I am swaping and re-using?

Current parity = 6TB > replacing with new 10TB precleared
Disk 7 = removing from array physically
Disk 8 = 3TB > replacing with new 10TB precleared drive
Disk 11 = 2TB > replacing with 6TB old parity (was precleared before adding to array in the past) 

Sorry for the length, I am always afraid of losing data or making a mistake during the removal of disk. Need a refresher.

Thoughts?

Thanks, 

Edited May 22, 2020 by bombz

[JonathanM]

8 hours ago, bombz said:

To remove disk 7 from my current production array:
01. Stop UnRAID
02. From the 'Main' menu > Disk 7 > unassigned
03. Tools > New Config > Keep Current Assignments > Apply
04. Main > Start Array
05. Will my array come back online without disk 7, giving me the ability to physically remove the disk?

*please add any notes or comments to this*

Switch step 2 and 3 and you should be fine. You can't fully unassign a disk slot until you do the new config. If you complete these steps as written with the swap of step 2 and 3, parity will rebuild with the parity disks assigned at that point. Since you would rather build parity with the new drive, you would save a bunch of time by switching the parity drive out at the same time. Parity has to be rebuilt anyway when you remove a drive, so why do it twice.

 

So, stop the array, set the array to NOT auto start, power down, do the drive 7 and parity drive physical removal and add the 10TB parity, power up, set a new config keeping current assignments, go back to the main page, assign all the changed drives into their final slots, build parity. After parity is built, then you can do the drive replacements the normal way on the 2 and 3TB drives.

[bombz]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:54 PM, jonathanm said:

Switch step 2 and 3 and you should be fine. You can't fully unassign a disk slot until you do the new config. If you complete these steps as written with the swap of step 2 and 3, parity will rebuild with the parity disks assigned at that point. Since you would rather build parity with the new drive, you would save a bunch of time by switching the parity drive out at the same time. Parity has to be rebuilt anyway when you remove a drive, so why do it twice.

 

So, stop the array, set the array to NOT auto start, power down, do the drive 7 and parity drive physical removal and add the 10TB parity, power up, set a new config keeping current assignments, go back to the main page, assign all the changed drives into their final slots, build parity. After parity is built, then you can do the drive replacements the normal way on the 2 and 3TB drives.

Much appreciated.
Good point to, why rebuild parity twice.

Sorry to draw this out so much. I know there are people in the community with really good experience and ability to share knowledge. I appreciate everyone that is apart of UnRAID. Teaching one another of best methods to complete tasks.

Thank you for the followup everyone, it brings ease to this project. 
If any other questions pop up as I am preparing for this, I will post back.

Thank you so much!

Edited May 24, 2020 by bombz

[bombz]

On 5/22/2020 at 8:54 PM, jonathanm said:

Switch step 2 and 3 and you should be fine. You can't fully unassign a disk slot until you do the new config. If you complete these steps as written with the swap of step 2 and 3, parity will rebuild with the parity disks assigned at that point. Since you would rather build parity with the new drive, you would save a bunch of time by switching the parity drive out at the same time. Parity has to be rebuilt anyway when you remove a drive, so why do it twice.

 

So, stop the array, set the array to NOT auto start, power down, do the drive 7 and parity drive physical removal and add the 10TB parity, power up, set a new config keeping current assignments, go back to the main page, assign all the changed drives into their final slots, build parity. After parity is built, then you can do the drive replacements the normal way on the 2 and 3TB drives.

I have completed the chassis move with no issues last week and everything is running perfect.
I am on my monthly parity sync today, this will be the last one before the swapping begins. Going to let this complete and begin the upgrade.

Please don't knock your head off the table, I drew up your instructions as stated to finalize. Let me know if I am out by any steps.
 

01. Stop UnRAID
02. Settings > Disk Settings > Auto-Start = NO
03. Power Down
04. Physically pull Disk 7 out of server
05. Physically Replace parity (6TB) with new parity (10TB)
06. Power up (auto start is disabled)
07. Tools > New Config > Keep Current Assignments > Apply
08. Main page > Assign new parity 10TB (and confirm all other disk match previous setup)
09. Allow parity to finish
10. Complete
 

From here I can change/swap disk out as needed, doing (1X) parity sync, each disk swap.
**Since I am using my ol 6TB parity as a data disk moving forward, and it was pre-cleared before adding it to the array at the beginning of its life, is it advisable to pre-clear it again before adding it as a data disk, or is it good to go as is?

Thanks :-) 

Edited June 1, 2020 by bombz

[JonathanM]

8 minutes ago, bombz said:

From here I can change/swap disk out as needed, doing (1X) parity sync, each disk swap.
**Since I am using my ol 6TB parity as a data disk moving forward, and it was pre-cleared before adding it to the array at the beginning of its life, is it advisable to pre-clear it again before adding it as a data disk, or is it good to go as is?

Once parity is built, and you have a successful check with no errors, you can then start your drive replacements / rebuilds. You will never be doing another parity sync until you add the 2nd parity drive, you should do a non correcting parity check after each successful data drive replacement.

 

Pre-clear is never necessary, ever. It's advisable to preclear NEW or unknown quality disks to ensure they are healthy before allowing them to participate in the parity array, but since your old 6TB parity is still healthy, I see no need to go through yet another check.

 

I assume all your disks are currently healthy, have you examined the SMART status to confirm? If you don't know what you are looking at, I advise posting your diagnostics and asking someone to look them over for you.

 

Error free parity checks are a good sign, but sometimes drives can pass checks while silently starting to fail.

[bombz]

18 hours ago, jonathanm said:

Once parity is built, and you have a successful check with no errors, you can then start your drive replacements / rebuilds. You will never be doing another parity sync until you add the 2nd parity drive, you should do a non correcting parity check after each successful data drive replacement.

 

Pre-clear is never necessary, ever. It's advisable to preclear NEW or unknown quality disks to ensure they are healthy before allowing them to participate in the parity array, but since your old 6TB parity is still healthy, I see no need to go through yet another check.

 

I assume all your disks are currently healthy, have you examined the SMART status to confirm? If you don't know what you are looking at, I advise posting your diagnostics and asking someone to look them over for you.

 

Error free parity checks are a good sign, but sometimes drives can pass checks while silently starting to fail.

Morning,
OK perfect, so my steps are setup correctly.
Parity was checked yesterday. I run parity on a schedule every month on the 1st of each month, perhaps that's too much?

As for pre-clear, I had thought it was recommended with new disk & unknown (this was going years back I read this). The 6YB is healthy, and SMART is good to go across all disk, as well as error free. I did dive down into the SMART reports and there are no flags I can see.

I am going to be starting this upgrade momentarily. Wish me luck. Thank you again!
 

[JonathanM]

21 minutes ago, bombz said:

I run parity on a schedule every month on the 1st of each month, perhaps that's too much?

That's been the normal thing to do for years now. If all your drives are active a large portion of the time, monthly may not be strictly needed, but it shouldn't hurt.

 

The issue we are trying to avoid with monthly checks is that drives can silently fail, and you want to keep tabs on their health. If a drive in unraid is never read, it may not spin up for months at a time assuming no reboots. It would really be bad for multiple little used drives to fail to perform flawlessly when one of your heavy use drives unexpectedly fails.

 

It's also a good general server health thing, if a parity check ever comes up with any errors, it's a huge red flag that something went terribly wrong, and if a drive had failed while those errors were present, the rebuild would be corrupt.

 

The only time it's "normal" to get parity errors is after an unclean shutdown, but that, in my opinion is something that went terribly wrong. A server should never be shut down improperly if things are working as they should.

[bombz]

26 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

That's been the normal thing to do for years now. If all your drives are active a large portion of the time, monthly may not be strictly needed, but it shouldn't hurt.

 

The issue we are trying to avoid with monthly checks is that drives can silently fail, and you want to keep tabs on their health. If a drive in unraid is never read, it may not spin up for months at a time assuming no reboots. It would really be bad for multiple little used drives to fail to perform flawlessly when one of your heavy use drives unexpectedly fails.

 

It's also a good general server health thing, if a parity check ever comes up with any errors, it's a huge red flag that something went terribly wrong, and if a drive had failed while those errors were present, the rebuild would be corrupt.

 

The only time it's "normal" to get parity errors is after an unclean shutdown, but that, in my opinion is something that went terribly wrong. A server should never be shut down improperly if things are working as they should.

Good to know on the schedule side, I will keep on using monthly checks. They are active often as media content is accessed from a higher ratio of disk.

I maintain and have UnRAID GUI up daily. I often keep an eye on performance and monitor for errors.

Generally in the past when I have had any error reporting (within the error section on the main tab) I swap disk almost immediately.

Rarely do I ever have an unclean shut down as the server is on redundant UPS, hooked up to USB cable to perform a clean shut down if battery levels get low during and unforeseen power outrage.

Update: Thank you for your instructions.
10TB Party is in (rebuilding) 
4TB (disk 7) is pulled

A quick question, and this is not a big deal.  As disk 7 is non-existent the GUI displays disk 6 and disk 8. Will this always be the case going forward? Is there any way to align disk so they are in order (disk 8 becomes the new disk 7)? 
No biggie if not, as it may throw the array out of wack, or may not be able to be adjusted as that's how the cfg is setup.

Thanks, 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by bombz

[JonathanM]

1 hour ago, bombz said:

As disk 7 is non-existent the GUI displays disk 6 and disk 8. Will this always be the case going forward? Is there any way to align disk so they are in order (disk 8 becomes the new disk 7)?

The question not asked is seldom answered.

 

When you did the new config to build parity, you could have put the data disks in any logical slot you wanted.

 

Stop the current parity build, do another new config, this time put the data disks where you want them.

[JonathanM]

1 hour ago, bombz said:

Is there any way to align disk so they are in order (disk 8 becomes the new disk 7)? 

BTW, there is a much longer answer if you already have valid parity and want to rearrange things.

 

The only gotcha for you at the moment could be share definitions that use includes or excludes referencing disk numbers will need to be updated, or any specific disk references instead of /mnt/user locations.

[bombz]

3 hours ago, jonathanm said:

The question not asked is seldom answered.

 

When you did the new config to build parity, you could have put the data disks in any logical slot you wanted.

 

Stop the current parity build, do another new config, this time put the data disks where you want them.

Thanks for the prompt response. I 'canceled' the party rebuild (4 hours in) and ran a 'new config' 
I have adjusted the drives accordingly