Why does Unraid not have Powersaving eg S3 functions build in by default?


darkside40

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Hi there,

being an Unraid user for more than 10 years now is ask myself why Unraid does not implement the functions of the S3 Sleep script by default.

We are living in a world of global warming where every watt of saved energy would be helpful.

 

Of course there are servers which need to rum 24/7, but lets be honest many Unraid users use it as Homeserver feeding their homecinema or other appliances which dont need a 24/7 running server. So i think these people should have an integrated chance to send their Server to sleep when it is not needed aside from the S3 Sleep script which randomly breaks when the format of the disks.ini is changed and which seems to be a bit abandoned. If you make this feature easy to handle for the users it also would be used more often.

 

For myself i keep a working fork of the S3 Sleep it but i dont think thats the way to go, also because there is really no documentation for the Plugin development.

 

On the other hand saving power saves people money. I know this is not really important for most of the users here, which are living in the US where energy is simply cheap, but for people in the EU it could make a difference.

 

So would it be possible to implement this function in the Unraid base distro as an optional feature, build by the Unraid team so it is known to work an long time supported.

Honestly i think that would be more useful than having wireguard running on a NAS OS.

 

Would be really nice to get an feedback of the Unraid people if that is something that could be considered for the near future.

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The main issue here is the vast variety of hardware and usages. Server grade parts have traditionally either just not worked with sleep, or broken badly when it's attempted. So adding the features to the core of Unraid risks breaking stuff and losing data, not a good look for a NAS.

 

I agree the need for supported hardware to have S3 available is there, but with the vast differences in hardware support and the need to validate proper operation for data safety, it would be a huge undertaking for a relatively small gain.

 

As the hardware evolves, hopefully it will get easier to put together an energy friendly build.

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8 hours ago, JonathanM said:

The main issue here is the vast variety of hardware and usages. Server grade parts have traditionally either just not worked with sleep, or broken badly when it's attempted. So adding the features to the core of Unraid risks breaking stuff and losing data, not a good look for a NAS.

 

I agree the need for supported hardware to have S3 available is there, but with the vast differences in hardware support and the need to validate proper operation for data safety, it would be a huge undertaking for a relatively small gain.

 

As the hardware evolves, hopefully it will get easier to put together an energy friendly build.

Yeah you are right, especially server grade hardware often misses S3 functions etc. But doesnt Unraid always claim to run on stock x86 Desktop hardware, isnt that one of the big advantages of Unraid?

 

I dont think making it optional with an additional warning before activation should lead to any data loss etc. If somebody has more important data on its Unraid than the ripped Bluray collection they should have a automated backup anyway. When you are afraid of data loss the function of the cache drive should have never been added to Unraid, if a full cache drive dies than data loss is guarenteed.

 

7 hours ago, Squid said:

Even Microsoft fails to have sleep work properly consistently or at all on all the combinations of hardware

 

And thats a valid reason not to do it? At least Microsoft tried with their Homeserver.

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16 minutes ago, darkside40 said:

And thats a valid reason not to do it? At least Microsoft tried with their Homeserver.

I guess that what Squid means is that if thousands of MS software engineers have a hard time to do something, 3 guys in a basement (sorry guys 😁) will probably not achieve much more.

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Being honest, the basic technology in form of the S3 Sleep Script is around for more than 10 years (longer than i use Unraid), and it works.

I would just need a bit more polishing with the knowledge of the guys who are doing the base distro so it does not break with every major version of unraid.

 

Like i said: It is not meant to be a "by default enabled" feature, but an option that can be easily switched on by the user. Not like it is now, that the user must first install a plg, just to see that the current version is partly broken (not the feature itself but settings) and not fixed since maybe a year, but yeah there is a workaround in the forum etc.

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  • 1 year later...
1 hour ago, darkside40 said:

When do we see an official S3 Sleep function in unRaid

I have had at least 8 different hardware platforms on which I have run Unraid.

  • On 2 S3 Sleep worked perfectly
  • On 4, it was "iffy" and full of non-critical problems but very unrealiable
  • On 2, it broke the server and it would not wake up from sleep.  In one case, I had to replace the motherboard (fortunately still under warranty). In the other I had to replace the BIOS chip (both server-grade hardware)

I avoid S3 sleep now because it is just unreliable and you don't know if it will work until you try it.

 

I have no argument against S3 sleep in Unraid other than those already presented but I would never use it based on my experience.

Edited by Hoopster
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Nobody wants to make it default or to force people tu use it. There are many other features like Networkbonding etc. which only a tiny bit of users use, and it is included.

 

From the German Community i know that many use S3 Sleep, simply because power is expensive here, and people have another mindset about Climate Change etc. like in the US. And yes sometimes it does not work, especially on professional Hardware. For many others it works flawless for years. Unraid now already has a status flag for spindown disks etc. The afford including it would not be that high.

 

And if it is useless for most you dont have to fear the number of support tickets, or simply state something like: Might or might not work depending on your hardware.

 

But not even considering it, is not a good decision.

 

But okay with never even got an official statement about it.

  • Like 4
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I also would like to state that having a solid support for S3 sleep would be highly appreciated.

Energy costs are still going through the roof, climate change is everywhere (over here, this year is, again, the hottest and driest since recording weather data - while our region is considered rather not to be affected by global warming) and my server is forced to run 24/7 just because there still is no official solution, even on the horizon (this topic yet alone was started one and a half years ago).

 

Don’t get me wrong, I am aware of problems that might be caused by S3 but honestly, I just dont get into my head, that saving energy does still not seem to have the priority and awareness that it would need to actively change an irresponsible (and often quiet senseless) waste of ressources. Some day, our kids will ask us "why?" …

 

In a nutshell:

I would love to see unraid putting more effort in lowering energy consumption.
I would like to see less discussion about the inevitable but more action.


Thank you so much!

Edited by hi2hello
  • Upvote 1
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Guys, honestly? Some people don't care if Sleep works or not! My server, same hardware, just had Windows 10 installed before UnRais. For this I had a program / plugin specifically for the S3. This has worked flawlessly for years. The server was always immediately awake from the S3 when I needed it. It did not have to run permanently. Power saving is the motto. But does anyone care about that? Not a clue.
The program was this here
Just as a suggestion, why doesn't anyone who can do it develop something like that for UnRaid?

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2 minutes ago, hi2hello said:

and my server is forced to run 24/7 just because there still is no official solution

This makes no sense. The plugin is here, you can use it. If it doesn't work on your system then a built in solution probably wouldn't either.

Edited by Kilrah
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That is not the point!

There simply is no "official" solution which keeps up with the changes mode to unRaid core.

 

With every new Version of unRaid something breaks with these plugins. Because there is no free Version of unRaid anymore or free spare licenses for dev's those plugins always run behind the official unRaid Releases.

So why not simply include such a feature? The excuses for not doing it are quite lame.

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9 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

This makes no sense. The plugin is here, you can use it. If it doesn't work on your system then a built in solution probably wouldn't either.

The plugin works, till the next update of unraid …

To me, this topic is all about a will for change or excuses for just keeping on.

Matter of priority and state of mind. 

  • Like 1
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11 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

 

If we go there I agree that a lot of plugins should be built-in functionality. Now which ones of the ~15 or so that probably should do you work on integrating first...

Which 15 do you use?

I use S3Sleep, Community Applications and Unassigend devices. And i think that are the most common.

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I actually have 34 installed, the ~15 were just those I consider should be built-in functionality. 

CA, File manager, the 3 UDs, the few mover/parity check/turbo write/tips and tweaks tuning ones, appdata/VM backup, flash remount, user scripts...

These are all either basic usability / reliability features for a server or just adding a couple of options to existing things which could be done from the get go.

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