Best Format for an External Drive (outside the array)

[TODDLT]

I am upgrading my external drive case, which is a backup of a large portion of my data and mobile.  So it should be a format that is recognized on an Windows machine should the need ever arise.  It's going to be a multi bay case as too much for one drive.  

 

So really two questions:

- Wouldn't using NTFS make the most sense for compatibility with Windows?  If not which?   How much space is lost due to formatting overhead with NRFS?

- I'm juggling between having independent drives which is a PITA for a progressive backup, and setting the case up from something like JBOD where if one disk dies both are essentially wiped out.  Is there a way to format multiple drives as a single partition without complete sudden death or the inability to expand?  If money were not an object I'd use 4 drives and set the case for RAID, but money is part of the deal.  2 drives will cover my storage space needs for now.

 

 

 

 

[JorgeB]

5 hours ago, TODDLT said:

Wouldn't using NTFS make the most sense for compatibility with Windows?

Yep

[TODDLT]

17 hours ago, JorgeB said:

Yep

 

Thanks ^^

Does anyone know how much space is lost from the bare capacity for formatting overhead?

 

Any thoughts on formatting as one logical drive instead of individual drives?  

Is there a way to "high water" write to drives outside the array?  I dont think this is possible.  I'm using Rclone to maintain the backup each night, just writing changes.

[_cjd_]

You can't move a multi-drive setup with a software raid solution between systems. It would have to be hardware raid, and the controller dependencies that brings along for the ride. Individual drives are not independently readable in either case.

 

Unraid array behaviors are limited to an unraid array. The drives are still readable independently, just not directly in windows. But... A livecd/USB boot of a Linux distro (which includes unraid) in a pinch should let you mount and share. So you'll have to weigh your requirements.

[TODDLT]

12 hours ago, _cjd_ said:

You can't move a multi-drive setup with a software raid solution between systems. It would have to be hardware raid, and the controller dependencies that brings along for the ride. Individual drives are not independently readable in either case.

 

Unraid array behaviors are limited to an unraid array. The drives are still readable independently, just not directly in windows. But... A livecd/USB boot of a Linux distro (which includes unraid) in a pinch should let you mount and share. So you'll have to weigh your requirements.

The 2 bay external enclosure includes hardware RAID.  Normal (independent disks), JBOD, RAID 0, and RAID 1.  It's also an ESATA connection.  So as long as it's mounted outside the array, unRAID should see it fine, correct?. I can write to it as a single drive span.

 

 

 

  

 

 

[_cjd_]

As far as I know, yes. You can always format and test before committing to actual use in this way. If it's USB, I've read in a few places that can cause issues but perhaps only if an array device; you'd be mounting an unassigned device I think.

[ChatNoir]

3 hours ago, _cjd_ said:

If it's USB

13 hours ago, TODDLT said:

It's also an ESATA connection

 

[TODDLT]

OK so sometimes I need to slow down and read closer.  The 4 bay version of the enclosure I was using is eSATA, but when I changed to the 2 bay version, I didn't notice the eSATA dropped off.  So that is headed back to Amazon.  

I can't seem to find a 2 bay with eSATA, except an older model that was expensive and had mediocre reviews at best so I'm now on to a 4 bay model.

 

SINCE I'm having to re-order I thought I'd ask if anyone had used one of the two I'm looking at before.  Any comments or known compatibility issues?  I want to be able to plug it in, run pre-clears on the drives, then turn on the hardware raid on the enclosure and format it NTFS to mount outside the array.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003YFHEAC/ref=ewc_pr_img_2?smid=A2WSTUX2A6RQ1A&th=1

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CXPD9J6X/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A2E3FBDGWMEIZ7&th=1

 

 

Then poking around, I came across this.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WQC44B3/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=A2IQNZSH0ZS9OH&th=1

 

for probably 275-300 could build another unRAID server with that .. as compared with a little less than half the cost for just a RAID enclosure.. (plus drive cost).

Makes me ponder it anyway.  It's all more than i was wanting to spend.

 

Edited July 19 by TODDLT

[JonathanM]

You've been doing this tech thing with Unraid for a very long time, relatively speaking. Why not salvage your old hardware and build another Unraid box with used parts? A backup tower would only need to be powered up for the duration of the backup, so heat and power consumption aren't a huge factor. You could use a couple new faster drives in your production box, and move your current smaller drives to the backup unit.

 

You seem to be focused on the ability to plug the bare drives into a windows box to read natively, but once you add hardware RAID into the mix you lost that already. If the hardware RAID enclosure dies, you would need to source a compatible unit to read the drives. If you run a second Unraid server, the drives are portable to virtually any hardware as you know.

 

IIRC @Hoopster has something like this set up and running with automatic scripting to do the backups.

[Espressomatic]

Hardware RAID = never for this use. Anything happens to a drive and it's all dead. Anything happens to any part of the raid card/board and it's all dead.

 

Use Unraid or MergerFS if you want to concatenate multiple drives. With Unraid, XFS format, with Merger, anything you want, including NTFS.

 

My new backup system is a ReadyNAS business pro 6-bay case in which I've replaced the motherboard and customized the backplane - it runs Unraid. That gives me the option of mixed disk array or all-same 6-drive ZFS.

Edited July 19 by Espressomatic

[TODDLT]

I really appreciate the feedback.  

The only issue with setting up a new UnRAID box and retiring the old to a backup is size and portability.  That existing box is running 6 TB drives and is a full tower with 12 3.5" bays.  It weights 60-70 lbs. I'm looking for a backup that I can pick up and walk out the door with and little fuss.

 

However paying attention to the last couple posts, I am thinking about this case again.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WQC44B3/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_3?smid=A2IQNZSH0ZS9OH&th=1

Its small enough to walk away with easily.  I could use 3 - 18 TB drives and have room for a 4th of any size later.  (I have about 30 or so TB to backup)

If all I'm running is bare bones unRAID, it can work on a MiniITX board, correct?  Can't think of any reason it wouldn't, but honestly never looked.

 

I guess circling back.. I could do a new smaller faster box for the main box and leave the backup in the house.  IE the pick up and leave box is the main box.  However I'd need to think about size and cooling.   I might dig around for options on that tonight.

[TODDLT]

I may end up starting a new thread over this.  

 

Would a board like this be capable of running unRAID, just as a backup machine?  Meaning only the core processes, 3-4 drives.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mini-ITX-Motherboard-8-threads-SATA3-0-Display/dp/B0D8TWFJL4/?th=1

[Hoopster]

13 hours ago, JonathanM said:

IIRC @Hoopster has something like this set up and running with automatic scripting to do the backups.

@TODDLT This is a true statement.  I initially used older parts when I upgraded to build a backup server.  It was initially just put to sleep and then woken up when the script wanted to run a backup.  I eventually replaced the motherboard with a Mini-ITX board with IPMI so it could be powered on and off automatically by the script.  I run my backups weekly.

 

Originally I had the script backing up by share because the number and size of drives in the target server was not the same as the source server.  Now they are the same size and number so I modified the script to backup from disk to disk.  Very easy to pop in a replacement from the backup server if a disk in the source server dies.

 

I have been doing this now for about 5 years and it works great.  Totally unattended and I don't even think about it.  The script emails me a summary of what happened so I know it worked.

 

See my signature for current backup server specs.

Edited July 20 by Hoopster

[_cjd_]

I also have a backup unraid server - WoL and sync via User scripts weekly, waits if it tries to start while parity is running - still using fewer drives than the main server but it works great. Hardware all salvaged except the drives. It's in a short 2u case and is technically portable. Handles and all that...

[TODDLT]

thanks for the help all  I'll be adding a new thread under the design section of the forum.

[_cjd_]

I believe it's the SpaceInvaderOne vid/script which includes actually swapping stuff around so the backup server takes over primary duty - more bouncing between two than pure backup really. That might be useful if you plan to walk away with the primary.