Just saw on the news in Holland that there was a shooting on school in Connecticut.

Many young children died and even more Christmasses are ruined this year.

I pay my respect to family, friends an collegues of the children and teacher that got killed.

 

I hope it is the right way to say it.

 

2 minutes of silence and burning a candle.

Any way its said is right, there is no wrong way. I wish I could get in the heads of these people and see what is wrong with them. At 24 I can't begin to comprehend what happened in this man's life to go on a shooting spree anywhere, much less an elementary school to kill so many innocent children.

the thing I don't understand is why he had to shoot and kill all these children. If the issue was with his family then (not that I am saying it is the right thing to do) take it out on your family.

This country needs to really look a some more gun control. At the very least reinstate the high capacity magazine ban. The max amount allowed used to be ten rounds.

The Batman movies shooter had a 100 round drum magazine. He had a jam on his AR15 and switched to a Remington Shotgun. The man who shot the congress woman in AZ had 30 round magazine for his Glock. He paused to reload and was stopped before he could switch mag. This would not solve the problems, but would lower the body count. There is no legitimate  sporting need for a 30,60,100 round magazine.

 

Banning assault weapons is not really the answer.  A rifle is a a rifle. A Ruger Min 14 223 will kill you just as dead as a AR15 223 that is not considered an "assault weapon". I have no idea how to solve the problem, but banning/taxing/limiting the availability of hi cap magazines would be a damn good start.

 

What kind of world is this where a man can point a rifle at a six year old and pull the trigger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gun control isn't the answer either. If you look none of these shootings involved legally owned weapons. A crackdown on the borders and imports is what we need.

Some schools actually have metal detectors at the door. Why didn't this one?

There is no legitimate  sporting need for a 30,60,100 round magazine.

The 2nd amendment to the US constitution says nothing about legitimate sporting need. The intent was to allow the common man a defense.

 

If you institute bans on currently common items, the only people you will disarm are law abiding citizens, the criminals will continue to break the law whenever and however they wish, especially if they know their targets are defenseless.

 

We have laws on the books already barring felons from possessing firearms, but they get guns anyway. Are you suggesting more laws will solve this? If you make it harder to get firearms legitimately, the criminal will just steal them from the legal owner. Criminals will have guns as long as law abiding citizens are allowed to possess them.

 

Failure to address mental illness and the stigma that is attached so people can get treatment, failure to teach basic morality and the sanctity of life, and many other social problems are the cause of these acts of evil. The weapons used are tools in an unfit hand, not the cause of the evil.

 

If the Connecticut shooter knew that there were likely to be multiple armed people who were there at the school and could defend the students, he probably would have chosen a different target. Responsible citizens need to be encouraged to learn to defend themselves and their loved ones and other defenseless people against evil.

Some schools actually have metal detectors at the door. Why didn't this one?

 

The schools main entrance was locked and they have to buzz you in to enter. The shooter broke or shot out the glass to make entry. The shooter's mother worked at the school as a sub and he was likely aware of the layout and the security. This is pretty common at elementary  schools. I worked for Dell as a on site tech for a local school district for a short time.

 

In answer to the other post, I never suggested we ban guns. It's not gonna happen. Just go back to the 90s ban on high capacity magazines. This is targeted at the spree killings that are getting too common. Not even most criminals need or want 30 round magazine. In the most recent incident maybe a lower body count. If the guy's mom could not have bought  hi cap magazines.  I am not a anti gun person. I have a concealed carry permit, I dont leave the house at night with my magnaported, 5lbs trigger pull, Glock 23. But I dont feel insecure cause I dont have a 30 round mag sticking out of it. If you own or carry a weapon for self defense and you cant solve the problem with 10 rounds, you have no business owning one.

 

 

 

Banning guns is NOT the answer.  The only thing that will accomplish is to take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and criminals and nutjobs will STILL have guns.

 

How about a carry law that allows people to carry a sidearm strapped to their waist?  If this nut walked into a school where the principal and other teachers were armed, he would have been shot and killed and some of those kids might still be alive.

 

Maybe not the best idea, but I struggle to find the right course of action that will protect law abiding citizens (and their kids).

The government is an accomplice in this murder as far as I am concerned.  They are the ones that disarmed the only law abiding people that could have defended these children.  If trained staff could have a been able to defend themselves this could have been stopped quite earlier than just waiting for the shooter to commit suicide.

What needs to be done is protection taken away from the government until they can figure out a way to protect our schools. If the problem is not enough police, up the police forces. Give states grants to allow this to happen. Its odd how our government always keep their benefits when we suffer.

 

Banning guns or putting harsher restrictions will not solve the issue. Everyone's favorite statement is that the UK has strict gun laws and gun-related deaths are significantly lower than in the US. This is true but there are MANY other factors involved than just gun vs no gun.

 

Like I said before, almost every shooting that has taken place was done with illegally owned weapons. Laws and restrictions will not help this at all. Illegal smuggling of firearms through our borders and ports is the issue. Guns will be stolen from legal owners, but not enough to arm gangs to the teeth and give these random shooters bullet proof vests, guns with extended mags, Assault rifles...

 

And here is a perfect argument for the fact that more laws won't help. Lets go through the sequence of events for the Sandy Hook shooter and count the broken laws.

 

He killed his mom. #1. He then stole 3 of her guns ( #2 #3 #4 ), then stole her truck ( #5 ). Then he illegally transported 3 weapons ( # 6 #7 #8 ), then carried those guns to a school without a carry permit (#9 #10 #11) then broke into the school (#12)  brought those guns onto school property (#13 #14 #15) then shot 26 more people ( #16-#41).

 

In total he broke the law 41 times in that single act. What would another one or two matter?

How about a carry law that allows people to carry a sidearm strapped to their waist?  If this nut walked into a school where the principal and other teachers were armed, he would have been shot and killed and some of those kids might still be alive.

 

How about we give all the kids H&K MP5s. The 9mm versions have low recoil and most kids over 6 years old could shoot them without much training. 115grain fragable bullets to minimize over penetration. So it wont go through the perp or a wall and hit an innocent.

 

If you own or carry a weapon for self defense and you cant solve the problem with 10 rounds, you have no business owning one.

That is rather short sighted. Ideally, every shot is well placed and effective. In the heat of a real situation, nerves kick in, and even trained professionals miss. It's not unheard of for multiple police officers to fire 30 or more rounds collectively when trying to take down a threat. I'm not saying you need a 30 round mag in your glock, I'm saying telling someone else they can't own one because you don't need or want it isn't the answer either. Every police officer carries multiple full magazines so they have the capability if they need it.

 

If you were cornered by multiple bad guys intent on depriving you of your belongings with no regard for your life and your wife or little sister were with you, I'm sure you would be happier with a full 15 round magazine and a second magazine waiting to swap in if necessary. Arbitrarily limiting yourself to 10 rounds is foolish.

How about we give all the kids H&K MP5s. The 9mm versions have low recoil and most kids over 6 years old could shoot them without much training. 115grain fragable bullets to minimize over penetration. So it wont go through the perp or a wall and hit an innocent.

I really hope you were trying to be funny. The decision to take another persons life to save your own or an innocent bystander is not something I would wish on anyone.

 

Training kids to respect weapons and learn that target practice is fun would be a good way to improve the current situation. If all little kids knew how to be safe with weapons (off limits without responsible adult around) the world would be a better place. Curiosity and lack of respect for weapons has caused many little kids to accidentally hurt themselves or others.

I really hope you were trying to be funny. The decision to take another persons life to save your own or an innocent bystander is not something I would wish on anyone.

I 'm afraid you missed the point entirely.  See the quote below, that illustrates my point.

 

"It's a form of argument that I thought you would have known, which is called the 'reduction to the absurd.' "

 

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia

 

Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to absurdity") is a common form of argument which seeks to demonstrate that a statement is true by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its denial,[1][2] or in turn to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

 

In others words,  no I was not trying to be funny. There is nothing less funny than the Sandy Hook School shooting. A school with several hundred preteens with sub-machine guns, would qualify as absurd to most people. Every adult walking around with a gun strapped to there hips, only some less so. IMHO  With 300 million guns in America, I for one don't think more guns are the answer.

I have enjoyed this discussion, but I will refrain from any further posts on this topic. There are lots of forums for discussion of the ills of society, but the uRaid forum is not one of them.

 

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There is are really only two solutions that would work neither is really possible.

 

[*]All firearms are banned (world wide not just USA)- if no guns exist anywhere this couldn't happen.  The problem is you would never be able to find and confiscate them all and someone would just make new ones anyway so just not possible

[*]Everybody is given a firearm - if everybody had a weapon criminals would think twice about committing a crime using a firearm if they knew they would get shot buy everybody in the vicinity.  The problem is there would be some that just couldn't handle them responsibly and without accidents.  Training courses are fine and would help allot but there would still be accidents with people shooting the wrong person.

 

I just don't see a good solution unless we can get better at preventing people from becoming this sick in the first place.