billington.mark Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Guys, As my "plan" is going to cost me a considerable amount of ££ and time, I wanted to run things past people who possibly have this sort of setup already to give their opinion on day to day usability. I need it to be stable enough for my IT illiterate other half to not have to call me up every other day when things don't work! With KVM maturing very quickly on unraid, Im thinking of replacing my daily driver PC and my NUC (HTPC) with an upgrade to my unraid server and have those running as KVM Machines. My current setup is a single CPU Xeon system, 16GB DDR3 with a 6x port SAS\SATA Raid card with my SSD and HDDs for the array off it. As it was a cheap server mobo i bought, ive no spare PCI-e slots to do any sort of GPU\Sound card or USB Card pass through to VMs. My proposed new system will be: HP z800 Workstation motherboard 2x Xeon X5680 6 core CPU 48GB RAM Corsair 900d to house the beast of a motherboard 2x GPUs to pass through to VMs 1x USB3 expansion card to pass through to Windows VM 1x Sound card to pass through to Windows VM Host OS would be Unraid. Daily driver PC would be windows 10 with a graphics card\sound card\USB3 card passed through to it. HTPC would be kodibuntu or another windows 10 machine with Kodi installed with a Graphics card passed through to it. Here are my questions: 1. Can i use different brand graphics cards for different VMs without KVM being funny? Eg, use an nvidia card for the HTPC and ATI for the daily driver? From what ive read so far, there wouldnt be an issue, but just want to check. 2. Does KVM support putting VMs to "sleep", and waking via usb input (keyboard\mouse input) like a normal PC does? if yes, does putting the VM to sleep also put the hardware it would have passed to it into some sort of low power mode? if not, i'll just have to map the sleep key to turn off monitors so it "feels" like the machine has gone to sleep. 3. People who have HTPCs or Windows Machines accessing via a console (not vnc or rdp), what is responsiveness like compared to a "normal" PC? any noticeable lag\stuttering? 4. Im expecting a few fps lower performance on gaming, but is it still usable? I would test all the above myself, but without any expansion slots to put in a graphics card, i'm a bit stuck without spending some money! Also, If people are interested, I'd be happy to do a build log when i come round to actually getting stuck in and building (probably July). Thanks guys Quote Link to comment
archedraft Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 1. Can i use different brand graphics cards for different VMs without KVM being funny? Eg, use an nvidia card for the HTPC and ATI for the daily driver? From what ive read so far, there wouldnt be an issue, but just want to check. Yes, I am currently using Nvidia for my Win 8 VM and ATI for my OS X VM. 2. Does KVM support putting VMs to "sleep", and waking via usb input (keyboard\mouse input) like a normal PC does? if yes, does putting the VM to sleep also put the hardware it would have passed to it into some sort of low power mode? if not, i'll just have to map the sleep key to turn off monitors so it "feels" like the machine has gone to sleep. I would guess that it does but I didn't see the point in putting my VMs to sleep. I just have the monitors turn off at 10 mins... 3. People who have HTPCs or Windows Machines accessing via a console (not vnc or rdp), what is responsiveness like compared to a "normal" PC? any noticeable lag\stuttering? Both my Win 8 and OS X VM's have attached monitors and are by far faster than the older laptops they replaced. My only issue with my Windows VM is my older graphics card doesn't like 1080p videos but that is the limitation of the card itself. I can stream 720p videos just fine. I do not miss using my laptop at all. 4. Im expecting a few fps lower performance on gaming, but is it still usable? Again my graphic card is pretty old so my testing of gaming was very limited but I did test out a few older games (CS Source , Dota 2) and they handled just like a bare metal machine. I am sure it was a few FPS slower but I didn't notice. P.S. your new rig sounds amazing... very jealous Quote Link to comment
snoopy86 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 What are you using to connect to those windows vm-s? Thin client or something similar? Quote Link to comment
jonp Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Guys, As my "plan" is going to cost me a considerable amount of ££ and time, I wanted to run things past people who possibly have this sort of setup already to give their opinion on day to day usability. I need it to be stable enough for my IT illiterate other half to not have to call me up every other day when things don't work! With KVM maturing very quickly on unraid, Im thinking of replacing my daily driver PC and my NUC (HTPC) with an upgrade to my unraid server and have those running as KVM Machines. My current setup is a single CPU Xeon system, 16GB DDR3 with a 6x port SAS\SATA Raid card with my SSD and HDDs for the array off it. As it was a cheap server mobo i bought, ive no spare PCI-e slots to do any sort of GPU\Sound card or USB Card pass through to VMs. My proposed new system will be: HP z800 Workstation motherboard 2x Xeon X5680 6 core CPU 48GB RAM Corsair 900d to house the beast of a motherboard 2x GPUs to pass through to VMs 1x USB3 expansion card to pass through to Windows VM 1x Sound card to pass through to Windows VM Host OS would be Unraid. Daily driver PC would be windows 10 with a graphics card\sound card\USB3 card passed through to it. HTPC would be kodibuntu or another windows 10 machine with Kodi installed with a Graphics card passed through to it. Sounds like a helluva project! We'll do what we can do support you! The system specs you're planning for are a little old (the Xeon processor's are from 2010), but they look like they support VT-x / VT-d, so from a specs standpoint, they fit the bill. Here are my questions: 1. Can i use different brand graphics cards for different VMs without KVM being funny? Eg, use an nvidia card for the HTPC and ATI for the daily driver? From what ive read so far, there wouldnt be an issue, but just want to check. There are no issues that we are aware of from mixing different GPU brands for assignment to different VMs. 2. Does KVM support putting VMs to "sleep", and waking via usb input (keyboard\mouse input) like a normal PC does? In theory, yes, but I do not recommend this as we haven't fully tested enough with sleeping VMs with GPU assignment. Should work fine, but you'd be trailblazing a bit here. What would be the point of putting a VM to sleep? Turning off the display, sure, I get that, but spinning down disks / entering a hibernate state really doesn't gain you anything if it's a VM since the physical hardware will still be on and running anyway. if yes, does putting the VM to sleep also put the hardware it would have passed to it into some sort of low power mode? if not, i'll just have to map the sleep key to turn off monitors so it "feels" like the machine has gone to sleep. By hardware, I'm assuming you mean the GPU. GPUs fluctuate in power draw based on actual usage. If the display is put to sleep and no 3D graphics are being rendered, the GPU will be in a very low power state, but not the same as entering a sleep state. 3. People who have HTPCs or Windows Machines accessing via a console (not vnc or rdp), what is responsiveness like compared to a "normal" PC? any noticeable lag\stuttering? Not sure what you mean by this. Accessing a HTPC / Windows instance via a console? Like telnet? I think you mean local graphics wise. If you assign a GPU to a VM, whether it's Windows, OpenELEC, or any other variant, the experience is that of a physical machine. You will not be able to tell the difference. There is no stuttering or draw lag of any kind. You can play 3D graphic games on it and wouldn't be able to tell it's virtual. 4. Im expecting a few fps lower performance on gaming, but is it still usable? You won't notice a difference. In benchmarking a physical vs. virtual machine instance of Windows, I gave my VM only 3/4 of my processor and 1/2 the RAM of the physical and yet I saw my scores at 97% of physical. The tiny performance degradation in benchmarking is NOT noticeable (at all) in gameplay. I would test all the above myself, but without any expansion slots to put in a graphics card, i'm a bit stuck without spending some money! Also, If people are interested, I'd be happy to do a build log when i come round to actually getting stuck in and building (probably July). Thanks guys Let me know if you have any other questions! Quote Link to comment
billington.mark Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 What are you using to connect to those windows vm-s? Thin client or something similar? i'll be passing through a GPU, connected to two monitors via DP\HDMI and a pci-e USB3 card for keyboard\mouse, so it'll be direct access (in theory). That'll be to replace my main PC Quote Link to comment
snoopy86 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So you will have server close to monitors. I have similar plan like you just that my server is in the basement and will have to use some kind of zero client which will connect to vm trough lan. Has anyone tried that? Just curious what the user experience would be (speed). Quote Link to comment
billington.mark Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 @jonp I realise the specs are a little old, but each of the Xeons are better performance wise with my current i7 3770 PC, I dont think i'll notice much of a difference! plus the mobo is a steal at around £60, when you look at newer socket dual CPU boards, the price jumps through the roof! Usage wise, 99% of the time its only used for Office type stuff with music playing in the background. If anything i think it'll be like using a hammer to break an egg! the main outlay in all this is the case, which will be recycled for many years to come if i decide to upgrade in a couple of years. After typing the sleep question, i think it was a daft one to ask, but i'll throw some clarification to what im trying to achieve... this will be the VM that'll be used by people in the house who have no idea what a VM is, im wanting to mimic what we do at the moment with our main pc which is where we invoke 'sleep' using a keyboard button. basically it spins down the hdds, stops graphics output and mutes the sound, blah blah. If i cant do that and all im doing is turning off the monitors, the speakers could stil throw out notification sounds, the screens could come on if my dog decides to fall asleep against my desk and make the mouse move etc. It'l be one of those "nice to have" bits once everything is up and running i think. I could write a batch script to turn off the screens\mute the sound etc, but the tricky bit will be to undo all that when you want to use the machine again... i dont know, im typing out loud! @snoopy yes, my server sits next to the PC it'll be replacing and on the other side of a wall that the HTPC is on. so 2x hdmi to my monitors for the windows machine, and one hdmi through the wall to my AV receiver. if anyone is interested, these are the possible bits i'll be buying: Mobo: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-New-HP-Z800-Workstation-Motherboard-576202-001-460838-002-/121450083451?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c46fd347b CPUs: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5680-3-33GHz-3-6GHz-Turbo-12MB-6-4GT-s-SLBV5-LGA1366-CPU-Processor-/291383759919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7d3542f Case: http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/obsidian-series-900d-super-tower-case HTPC GPU: Nvidia GTX 960 (HDMI 2.0 and x265 hardware decoding), or something similar when i come to buy that supports HTPC type stuff Windows GPU: whatever is good at the time to do light gaming USB3 Card:http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-usb-31-type-a-dual-(2)-port-card-pci-e-20-x4-up-to-10gbps , then off to a usb3 hub for stuff to plug into. Quote Link to comment
billington.mark Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I have similar plan like you just that my server is in the basement and will have to use some kind of zero client which will connect to vm trough lan. Has anyone tried that? Just curious what the user experience would be (speed). If its single monitor, id look into using a raspberry pi as a remote desktop terminal maybe? if your monitor has usb ports, that would power the Pi, so not very many cables if its using wireless Quote Link to comment
archedraft Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 After typing the sleep question, i think it was a daft one to ask, but i'll throw some clarification to what im trying to achieve... this will be the VM that'll be used by people in the house who have no idea what a VM is, im wanting to mimic what we do at the moment with our main pc which is where we invoke 'sleep' using a keyboard button. basically it spins down the hdds, stops graphics output and mutes the sound, blah blah. If i cant do that and all im doing is turning off the monitors, the speakers could stil throw out notification sounds, the screens could come on if my dog decides to fall asleep against my desk and make the mouse move etc. It'l be one of those "nice to have" bits once everything is up and running i think. I could write a batch script to turn off the screens\mute the sound etc, but the tricky bit will be to undo all that when you want to use the machine again... i dont know, im typing out loud! Heck, they won't know the difference as long as there is a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Just tell them that all that is required is to wiggle the mouse to turn on the screen... As far as muting the random notifications and the dog accidentally bumping the monitor, is that really an issue? It sounds like you are making your VM setup more complicated than it needs to be. Quote Link to comment
jonp Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 After typing the sleep question, i think it was a daft one to ask, but i'll throw some clarification to what im trying to achieve... this will be the VM that'll be used by people in the house who have no idea what a VM is, im wanting to mimic what we do at the moment with our main pc which is where we invoke 'sleep' using a keyboard button. basically it spins down the hdds, stops graphics output and mutes the sound, blah blah. If i cant do that and all im doing is turning off the monitors, the speakers could stil throw out notification sounds, the screens could come on if my dog decides to fall asleep against my desk and make the mouse move etc. It'l be one of those "nice to have" bits once everything is up and running i think. I could write a batch script to turn off the screens\mute the sound etc, but the tricky bit will be to undo all that when you want to use the machine again... i dont know, im typing out loud! Hmm, well, I'd say give the sleep command a try the way you're talking. I've gotten it to work before, but haven't done enough testing to say it's fully supported yet. The pieces are in place for the VM manager to recognize that the VM is asleep (and show a pause button when it is). What I'm not sure about is waking it up. You may have to do this from the webGui, but hey, who knows! Give it a shot and let us know what happens when you do it! Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 That's indeed a very nice potential system, but I have to wonder just what your goal is here. You said you were thinking of "... replacing my daily driver PC and my NUC (HTPC) ..." with this new setup, but it's not clear WHY you'd want to do that. Usually the goal is to save power by having fewer PC's running 24/7. However, replacing a 77w i7-3770 and a very low wattage Intel NUC [You didn't say which specific model you have, but these are all very low wattage devices; and they support S3 sleep just fine, so likely use no more than 2-3 watts much of the time] with a system that has TWO 130 watts CPU's is not at all likely to result in lower power utilization. 'Nor does it seem likely you'll gain any processor "horsepower" for you main PC => your current i7-3770 scores 9371 on PassMark; the X5680 Xeons score 9124, or 14063 in a dual-CPU configuration. And I suspect your current desktop works fine with S3, so in addition to the fact it already uses far less power than the server you're thinking of building, it will also drop to near zero (i.e. 2-3 watts) when it's sleeping ... whereas "sleeping" a VM will save very little (if any) power. The new server does indeed look like a very nice unit; and you may simply want to have a really nice UnRAID box with good virtualization support. For that, it's certainly an excellent setup for the price you can get it for. It's just not clear that replacing your NUC or primary PC are necessarily tasks that you really want to do. Replacing the NUC might make sense, since I assume that whenever it's on it's accessing your UnRAID server ... in which case the power consumption of the server is in essence "free". But experiment with that a bit before actually doing it ... you may very well decide you prefer the dedicated NUC. Quote Link to comment
tr0910 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 if anyone is interested, these are the possible bits i'll be buying: Mobo: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-New-HP-Z800-Workstation-Motherboard-576202-001-460838-002-/121450083451?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c46fd347b CPUs: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5680-3-33GHz-3-6GHz-Turbo-12MB-6-4GT-s-SLBV5-LGA1366-CPU-Processor-/291383759919?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7d3542f Case: http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/obsidian-series-900d-super-tower-case HTPC GPU: Nvidia GTX 960 (HDMI 2.0 and x265 hardware decoding), or something similar when i come to buy that supports HTPC type stuff Windows GPU: whatever is good at the time to do light gaming USB3 Card:http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-usb-31-type-a-dual-(2)-port-card-pci-e-20-x4-up-to-10gbps , then off to a usb3 hub for stuff to plug into. It's always tempting to use older technology. It sure is cheaper. What is the required memory for this MB? Will standard DDR3 work? I see this might be an issue for you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HP-Z800-Workstation-System-Motherboard-Main-Board-460838-002-576202-001-/231388015383?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35dfcceb17 -5600 series CPU will NOT work on this board. Could you go with something like this for way less money? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5570-CPU-2-93GHz-8MB-Cache-6-4GT-s-LGA1366-Quad-Core-Processor-SLBF3-/171549223573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f1216a95 I have some Tams servers, both the AOC ones and the Supermicro ones. This motherboard might fit nicely?? http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=26227.0 Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 If I remember correctly, that z800 MB is pretty close in specs to my SM motherboard listed in my sig. I would really recommend ECC ram if you have the budget and your MB can take it. John Quote Link to comment
tr0910 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 But your MB is still $250 on ebay. There must be a huge pile of those z800 laying around somewhere, or they must not fit a normal size case. Something must be wrong with them to have them selling at $88..... Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 ... I see this might be an issue for you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HP-Z800-Workstation-System-Motherboard-Main-Board-460838-002-576202-001-/231388015383?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35dfcceb17 -5600 series CPU will NOT work on this board. No "might be" about it !! Clearly that kills the proposed configuration !! Could you go with something like this for way less money? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5570-CPU-2-93GHz-8MB-Cache-6-4GT-s-LGA1366-Quad-Core-Processor-SLBF3-/171549223573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f1216a95 ... but just over HALF of the processing power. If you're going to move to that level of "horsepower", I'd go with a new Haswell-based build. Might cost a bit more; but will use FAR less power and one Haswell Xeon will easily outperform TWO of the 5570's (so the power difference is even more significant). Quote Link to comment
tr0910 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Finding a motherboard with enough x8 or x16 pcie slots is not easy. The x9scm had 4. Just perfect. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Finding a motherboard with enough x8 or x16 pcie slots is not easy. The x9scm had 4. Just perfect. Agree. The MBD-X10SLL-F-O is a good choice for a Socket 1150 Xeon => 2 x8's and an x4 (compared to two of each on the x9scm). For a Socket 2011 Xeon, it's hard to beat a MBD-X10SRL-F => 4 x8 slots and 2 x4 slots !! Quote Link to comment
Fireball3 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I have similar plan like you just that my server is in the basement and will have to use some kind of zero client which will connect to vm trough lan. Has anyone tried that? Just curious what the user experience would be (speed). If its single monitor, id look into using a raspberry pi as a remote desktop terminal maybe? if your monitor has usb ports, that would power the Pi, so not very many cables if its using wireless Doing so will probably add latency issues. I would also like to have the Server in the basement but the restriction to the use of HDMI is a showstopper. Perhaps when 10GBASE-T components get affordable. Latency might still be an issue though (online gaming). Quote Link to comment
billington.mark Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Thanks for all the input guys. Any criticism is welcome as i want a system that will last the test of time... To answer a few things in the thread so far... the z800 motherboard DOES support 5600 series CPUs as long as you use a 003 revision board. you might need to get a 5500 series to initially boot to bios with and update it, but the 003 revision definately supports the 5600 range. The z800 mobo is so cheap is because it doesnt have standard ATX mounting holes and its HUGE. you need to modify your mobo tray to mount it in a case.... unless you get a hp z800 case. it also has non standard power connectors and undocumented i/o pin-outs. So its a big project in itself just to get it to boot inside a case. So thats why its so cheap. if you take into account the cost of your time, it might be more cost effective to just get an E-ATX dual socket mobo. I was quite willing to take on the challenge though. What spurred me to take a punt with all of this was to replace my NUC (i3-4010U) to something 4k capable, and as someone else pointed out, my unraid server is always on when the NUC is anyway, so using a VM on the unraid box makes alot of sense. Passing through a x265 decode capable hdmi2.0 card to a vm ticks that box. Bearing a few other posts in mind, the 2011 socket route does make alot more sense than sticking with 1366, especially when there are 12core cpus in that range which will only get cheaper over time and allow upgrade ability for a few years to come. Now i just need to find a dual cpu mobo with as many pci-e slots as possible and the best 2011 socked xeons for a decent price Quote Link to comment
johnodon Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I believe that the Lenovo Thinkstation D20 is in the same class as the z800. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-Thinkstation-D20-Motherboard-System-Board-71Y8826-B-/171709088561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27faa8c331 Good news...this board will mount in an Extended ATX case (I have done it) The bad news...like the z800, the PSU pinout is proprietary. I can't say for sure if it will take 5600 Xeons (I had 5530s or 5520s). BTW, the PSU that came with those things is 1100W. John Quote Link to comment
snoopy86 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I have similar plan like you just that my server is in the basement and will have to use some kind of zero client which will connect to vm trough lan. Has anyone tried that? Just curious what the user experience would be (speed). If its single monitor, id look into using a raspberry pi as a remote desktop terminal maybe? if your monitor has usb ports, that would power the Pi, so not very many cables if its using wireless Doing so will probably add latency issues. I would also like to have the Server in the basement but the restriction to the use of HDMI is a showstopper. Perhaps when 10GBASE-T components get affordable. Latency might still be an issue though (online gaming). I have tested this today with RPI serving as zero client, connected to a Win 10 VM. GB network and no issue whatsoever. The same user experience as on the stationary pc doing regular stuff (browsing, hd movies, music, photoshop,...). No gaming because we don't do that, so that is not a problem for me. It's nice to have 0db in your workplace Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's nice to have 0db in your workplace I rather doubt that ANY workplace would measure 0db on an SPL meter ... May not have any contribution from your PC, but SOMETHING is generating SOME noise Quote Link to comment
jonp Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 It's nice to have 0db in your workplace I rather doubt that ANY workplace would measure 0db on an SPL meter ... May not have any contribution from your PC, but SOMETHING is generating SOME noise I think what snoopy is saying he can put his system somewhere out of sight and out of mind, then use a raspberry pi, which has no moving parts, as a "zero client" which essentially means a device that he uses solely for the remote graphics protocol it can utilize to connect to a Windows or other desktop OS running as a VM on unRAID over a LAN connection and get all the benefits something like Microsoft RDP has to offer without having to take on noise generated by any fans for the system itself. This could be done over a wired or wireless network as well. In fact, I use RDP over a VPN connection to the office during the week and have done quite a bit of work using a Windows OS from my Macbook Air while at home. This is over a 5mbps upload from the office to my home which has a 24mbps download link. Granted I'm not playing games over this kind of connection, for that, i'd have to be local, but if you're just streaming media, how snoopy is looking to do this is a completely viable use case. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 ... I think what snoopy is saying he can put his system somewhere out of sight and out of mind, then use a <device with> no moving parts ... without having to take on noise generated by any fans for the system itself. Of course that's what he's referring to -- that's crystal clear. I simply noted (tongue-in-cheek) that NO working environment will have a 0db noise level You DO breathe, right? ... and perhaps have air conditioning (or heating in the winter). Clearly it's easy to set up an environment where the computing equipment you're using doesn't add anything to the noise level, but the SPL will still be > 0 db Quote Link to comment
tr0910 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Agree. The MBD-X10SLL-F-O is a good choice for a Socket 1150 Xeon => 2 x8's and an x4 (compared to two of each on the x9scm). For a Socket 2011 Xeon, it's hard to beat a MBD-X10SRL-F => 4 x8 slots and 2 x4 slots !! Gary, I hadn't considered socket 2011. But that MB looks like it has real growth potential. From a $200 quad core Xeon, to a 12 core monster. That motherboard is only $269. Why wouldn't everybody just go this way and ignore the socket 1150?? I count 5 PCIe x8 slots and 2 x16 slots on it here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182927&cm_re=x10srl-f-_-13-182-927-_-Product Quote Link to comment
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