UPS for unRAID

[Bjonness406]

I need some help to buy a UPS for unRAID now.

I want to use the unRAID support for it, and not the NUT plugin. Then I guess I need a APC ups?

 

Is usb the way to go?

I want to get the cheapest one possible, I don't want to run my server off this, but use it to shutdown the server properly.

So let the server run about 1 minutte before it shutdown if it loose power.

 

I have a Intel i5 3570, Corsair CX600M psu, 16GB Corsair DDR3, two WD red 2TB, one WD red 1tb and one Samsung 850 Evo 250GB, probaly will be adding more drives in the feature (up to 8 + SSD), and a 10Gbit NIC.

How big ups do I need for this?

 

The UPS NEEDS to be silent then not in use. So I think I don't want a online UPS then? Line-interactive or offline? Depends on the noise level.

 

What other brands do work than APC? Or only APC? I can buy APC, Eaton, CyberPower and Powerwalker here in my country.

[ashman70]

Pick up an APC Backups, you can get them for around $50-60, half of the outlets are for surge only the other half are backup and surge, so make sure you plug the server into an outlet that is for backup.

[Bjonness406]

I need one with USB right?

 

How many VA do I need?

What do you think my system will draw if I put in 8 drives in total? Good to have something to go off.

 

[ashman70]

I'm assuming you live in the US, so here is a link to one at Staples.

 

http://www.staples.com/APC-Back-UPS-ES-550VA-8-Outlet-Power-Saving-UPS-BE550G-/product_733726

 

All UPS's connect via USB, some even still offer to connect to a COM port.

 

The more VA you want the more money you have to pay. To support one computer, the one in the link will be fine, it should give you 5-10 min of battery backup with just one computer plugged into it.

[Bjonness406]

I don't live in USA, I live in Norway.

 

Here is a list of he APC UPS with USB we have here. Which one is the best for my money?

http://www.prisjakt.no/category.php?o=produkt_pris_inkmoms&m=s263419297

 

Should I get a line-interactive or a offline UPS? Does the line-interactive make a lot of noise?

Take this UPS as an example, it says it makes 45dBA 1 meter away. Is that all the time, or only when charging/running on battery?

http://www.apc.com/shop/bw/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-550/P-BR550GI

 

How many watts do the UPS need to be able to handle for what amount of time. Some are 8 minuttes with 200w, and only 4 minuttes with 300w. How many watts should I be looking at for my system?

[Leifgg]

I am using APC Pro BR900GI that can handle 540 W/900 VA. I have connected the tree servers mentioned in my signature plus cable modem, WIFI router, a 24 port switch and two small home automation controllers. Power usage from the UPS is around 140 W when the servers are idle and would probably rise to around 350 to 400 W at full load.

 

I have never been concerned about the noise level from the UPS, in normal operation I can’t hear it at all.

 

The BR550GI you linked looks ok for the size of your server. You basically only need the UPS to handle very short interruptions (less than a second) and have enough runtime for the server to do a safe shutdown in case there is a power outage.

[Bjonness406]

I am using APC Pro BR900GI that can handle 540 W/900 VA. I have connected the tree servers mentioned in my signature plus cable modem, WIFI router, a 24 port switch and two small home automation controllers. Power usage from the UPS is around 140 W when the servers are idle and would probably rise to around 350 to 400 W at full load.

 

I have never been concerned about the noise level from the UPS, in normal operation I can’t hear it at all.

 

The BR550GI you linked looks ok for the size of your server. You basically only need the UPS to handle very short interruptions (less than a second) and have enough runtime for the server to do a safe shutdown in case there is a power outage.

Thanks! Maybe I go with the APC Back-UPS RS 550VA then. How are the noise level in normal operations on your model? I need one that is close do dead silent (no fan noise), when in normal operation since I have my server in my living room (Fractal R5 ftw ). Would this one work then?

https://www.komplett.no/product/501612/datautstyr/upsoverspenningsvern/overspenningsvern/apc-back-ups-rs-550va#

[Frank1940]

About the noise, I have never seen a UPS of less 1000VA rating have a fan in it.  The only thing you might hear would be a transformer hum when the power being produced is high and the alarm signal (which can usually be turned off).  But remember, if you are concerned mainly about power outages, the lights and everything else will be off.  You do understand that all of the units which have been suggested are standby UPS's.  When the power fails, they switch within a few milliseconds to supply power to the devices being protected. 

 

Always-on UPS's are available but they are close to a order of magnitude more expensive...

[Leifgg]

Agree, don’t think you need to worry about the sound level from the UPS, I can’t find any fans in mine and the only noise source I can think of is the inverter when it is running on batteries or when it recharges the batteries.

 

I have the UPS standing next to my Node 804 with 4 x Noctua NF-F12 running at 1000 rpm and that is the only noise I can hear!

 

Haven’t calculated power usage for your server but a guess is around 150 to 200 W at full load with all drives spinning so the one you are looking at should be ok.

[Bjonness406]

About the noise, I have never seen a UPS of less 1000VA rating have a fan in it.  The only thing you might hear would be a transformer hum when the power being produced is high and the alarm signal (which can usually be turned off).  But remember, if you are concerned mainly about power outages, the lights and everything else will be off.  You do understand that all of the units which have been suggested are standby UPS's.  When the power fails, they switch within a few milliseconds to supply power to the devices being protected. 

 

Always-on UPS's are available but they are close to a order of magnitude more expensive...

Thanks, I was just worried that the AVR would make a sound.

I don't care about the sound then charging or running on batteries, just in normal use.

 

 

Agree, don’t think you need to worry about the sound level from the UPS, I can’t find any fans in mine and the only noise source I can think of is the inverter when it is running on batteries or when it recharges the batteries.

 

I have the UPS standing next to my Node 804 with 4 x Noctua NF-F12 running at 1000 rpm and that is the only noise I can hear!

 

Haven’t calculated power usage for your server but a guess is around 150 to 200 W at full load with all drives spinning so the one you are looking at should be ok.

Good that you said that, then I thought of doing a PSU calculator test. If I max out my system, it will "only" draw 250W on full load. (100% cpu, 8 harddrives, 2 SSD, 1 raidcard, 1 dualport nic etc). A 330Watt UPS is enough for me then.

 

Thanks for your help

[Leifgg]

Good luck then! Post back if you need any help with the configuration in unRAID 

[Frank1940]

 

 

Good that you said that, then I thought of doing a PSU calculator test. If I max out my system, it will "only" draw 250W on full load. (100% cpu, 8 harddrives, 2 SSD, 1 raidcard, 1 dualport nic etc). A 330Watt UPS is enough for me then.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Be a bit more conservative in what you think your server will draw.  The problem is that the drives are all power up at the same time as the array is being shutdown.  If the PEAK power requirement (even for a few milliseconds) exceeds the power rating of the UPS, it instantly shuts down!  (I have had this happen some years ago when a monitor came out of sleep so I could manually shutdown the computer.  If the monitor was 'awake', there was no problem! )  Some hard drives have a starting inrush current draw of 2 amperes for a fraction of a second!

[Bjonness406]

So a 330W/550VA UPS is not enough for me? Do I need to go with the more expensive 900VA version instead?

http://outervision.com/b/QENzsZ

[Frank1940]

So a 330W/550VA UPS is not enough for me? Do I need to go with the more expensive 900VA version instead?

http://outervision.com/b/QENzsZ

 

It is difficult to determine exactly what is available in your country.  (We have a number of choices in the 700 to 750VA range in the US.)  But I did find these on the same site as you mentioned:

 

    https://www.komplett.no/product/575386/datautstyr/upsoverspenningsvern/overspenningsvern/apc-back-ups-es-power-saving-700va#

 

and this one:

 

    https://www.komplett.no/product/302029/datautstyr/upsoverspenningsvern/ups-og-ups-batteri/apc-back-ups-cs-650va-offline#

 

You might want to see if you can access the APC support website for your country and see if you can download the manuals.  In the manual, you want to check to see what the run time is at your expected load when the battery is new.  (It will get  shorter as the battery gets older!)  Also when comparing models, look at the part number for the replacement battery.  APC often uses the same battery for several models in a product line with different wattage ratings.  With the same battery, the run time will decrease as the load goes up.  You need (or want) a longer run time, look at the smallest VA unit with a larger battery. 

 

The only other thing to consider is reliability of your power provider.  There is one fellow here who gets power cuts two to four times per DAY!  He has a different set of requirements then I do where I get two to four per year.  (I have my 'Time on battery before shutdown (seconds)' set to 30 seconds.  If it out that long, it going to be out for minimum of a couple of hours...)

 

 

[Bjonness406]

I maybe gets a power cut one a year, if not less. So the UPS will not be in much use. Same as you, only for 30seconds before shutdown.

 

If we say that I need to have a UPS that can handle 250 watt, for how long do it need to be on then? Is 10 minuttes enough, or should I get one with more or less? unRAID takes some time to shut down, but not so much. Some disk can also hang then unmounting (yes I use the plugin), so the system can use a bit longer time then? Just trying to get how long time it will use to shutdown in worst case scenario.

How many watt should the UPS max output be? 400W, 480W, 540W, 660W or 700W?

Here is a lot better list on UPS in my country. http://www.prisjakt.no/category.php?o=produkt_pris_inkmoms&m=s263419297

[garycase]

How much output you need depends entirely on what load you're expecting it to handle.    With 8 drives and an SSD and the modest system you've outlined, I'd go with minimum of a 500VA unit, which will provide enough wattage (~300) to power your system for a few minutes while it shuts down gracefully, although a slightly larger unit would provide longer runtime and a bit more "headroom" in case your system power needs grow a bit.    I'd set the APC control software to shut down after about 5 minutes of outage.

 

One thing I would definitely recommend is that you buy a unit with AVR -- without that, the UPS can switch back-and-forth repeatedly during brownouts or slight power fluctuations;  with AVR it handles those electronically without the need to switch to inverter power.  The cheapest units will not have this, but it doesn't cost a fortune to get a quality unit with AVR.  The BR700G is an excellent unit with AVR that only costs a bit more than the lower-end units without AVR.    It's an excellent choice for most UnRAID setups.

 

http://www.prisjakt.no/product.php?p=1032245

 

 

[Bjonness406]

Thanks, but I can't get the UPS you linked, since it is a new webshop and and I have never heard of them.

 

I can link some different UPS and the prices (I get some discount at a store (komplett), so not all numbers will match.

 

1000NOK is 120Dollars if someone wonders (Norway is expensive  )

 

APC Power-Saving Back-UPS ES 8 Outlet 700VA, 1050NOK. 9 minuttes runtime with 250W load, no AVR and 405 watt maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/ro/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-ES-8-Outlet-700VA-230V-CEE-7-7/P-BE700G-GR

 

APC Back-UPS Pro 550VA, 1500NOK. 6 minuttes runtime with 250W load, does have AVR and 330w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/bw/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-550/P-BR550GI

 

APC BACK-UPS 950VA, 1050NOK. 7 minuttes runtime with 250W load, does have AVR and 480 w maximum.

www.apc.com/shop/ro/en/products/APC-BACK-UPS-950VA-230V-AVR-Schuko-Sockets/P-BX950U-GR

 

APC Back-UPS Pro 900, 1850NOK. 18 minuttes runtime with 250w load, does have AVR and 540w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/id/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-900-230V/P-BR900GI

 

APC BACK-UPS CS 650VA, 1150NOK. 10 minuttes runtime with 250w load, does not have AVR and 400w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/vn/en/products/APC-BACK-UPS-CS-650VA-230V-ASEAN/P-BK650-AS

 

APC Back-UPS 1400VA, 1600NOK. 18 minuttes runtime with 250w load, does have AVR and 700w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/iq/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-1400VA-230V-AVR-IEC-Sockets/P-BX1400UI

 

 

[Frank1940]

Your Power calculator showed a power requirement of 299W without any surges for startup of Hard Drives.  I personally would look for a unit with a power rating larger than 400W which allows for some margin in the actual power requirement.  At this point, I see  you have pick out a number of UPS models that meet  your budget requirements.    You can get a good idea what the shutdown time is by starting all of the plugins, VM's and Dockers that you MIGHT have running and shut the server down from the GUI and determine the time required.  (The UPS powerdown procedure is basically the same as your using the GUI.)    I would recommend that you aim for a unit with a run time of about 2-to-5 minutes longer than that time.  This allows for decreased run time due to battery aging.

 

One final comment:  If you find that you can't shut down the server from the GUI, find out what the issue is and get that resolved.  I would suggest a separate post about that issue if it happens. 

[garycase]

... I can't get the UPS you linked, since it is a new webshop and and I have never heard of them.

 

  I'm surprised you listed them earlier -- that's why I listed them for the unit I recommended ...

 

... Here is a list of he APC UPS with USB we have here. Which one is the best for my money?

http://www.prisjakt.no/category.php?o=produkt_pris_inkmoms&m=s263419297

 

In any event, for the reasons I noted earlier, I'd definitely choose a unit with AVR.    If you can't find an APC unit, then look for a CyberPower unit with AVR, which will work fine with UnRAID.

 

 

[Bjonness406]

Your Power calculator showed a power requirement of 299W without any surges for startup of Hard Drives.  I personally would look for a unit with a power rating larger than 400W which allows for some margin in the actual power requirement.  At this point, I see  you have pick out a number of UPS models that meet  your budget requirements.    You can get a good idea what the shutdown time is by starting all of the plugins, VM's and Dockers that you MIGHT have running and shut the server down from the GUI and determine the time required.  (The UPS powerdown procedure is basically the same as your using the GUI.)    I would recommend that you aim for a unit with a run time of about 2-to-5 minutes longer than that time.  This allows for decreased run time due to battery aging.

 

One final comment:  If you find that you can't shut down the server from the GUI, find out what the issue is and get that resolved.  I would suggest a separate post about that issue if it happens.

Just did a shutdown of my unRAID box, it uses 1 minutte and 20 seconds (using GUI, stop array then shutdown server. I dont know if there is any faster way).

 

 

... I can't get the UPS you linked, since it is a new webshop and and I have never heard of them.

 

  I'm surprised you listed them earlier -- that's why I listed them for the unit I recommended ...

Sorry, I though you had a website like that where you live too. The website I linked is not a webshop, but it compare prices. So if you click a product, it will list a bunch of webshops (except the one you linked )

Edited the search, here are the same list, just excluded som websites. http://www.prisjakt.no/category.php?o=produkt_pris_inkmoms&m=s263419297#rparams=m=s263527960

 

 

 

I think I am choosing between these UPS, who should I pick?

 

APC Back-UPS 1400VA, 1600NOK. 18 minuttes runtime with 250w load, does have AVR and 700w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/iq/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-1400VA-230V-AVR-IEC-Sockets/P-BX1400UI

 

APC BACK-UPS 950VA, 1050NOK. 7 minuttes runtime with 250W load, does have AVR and 480 w maximum.

www.apc.com/shop/ro/en/products/APC-BACK-UPS-950VA-230V-AVR-Schuko-Sockets/P-BX950U-GR

 

APC Back-UPS Pro 900, 1850NOK. 18 minuttes runtime with 250w load, does have AVR and 540w maximum.

http://www.apc.com/shop/id/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-900-230V/P-BR900GI

[garycase]

Of the 3 you listed, the last one is the best unit (the one I'd buy), but any of them are okay.

 

 

[Frank1940]

You indicated that you only expect about 1 outage a year and I would also suspect that the supply voltage is relativity stable.  That is, no brown-outs.  If that is the case the APC Backup 950 would do what you require.  If you have problems with stable supply voltage, you could go with the Backup Pro which provides for voltage regulation.  (However, I had an APC with AVC a few years ago and I ended up pitching it in the trash because the warranty had expired.  They had a problem with that series of UPS's developing a acute sensitivity to voltage variations and it would switch into the regulating mode at any disturbance.  This was not the big issue for me:  it was the LOUD beep every time time it did it--- 25 to 30 times a day!)  Plus, many modern computer PS's will run on either 120 or 240VAC without any switch setting or change required to the PS!  (100-240VAC, 47-63 Hz is the spec on the first one I looked at.) They are simply not that sensitive to voltage variations. 

[trurl]

As Gary mentioned, CyberPower will work. I have CyberPower AVRG900U with my unRAID and another PC running on it.

[Bjonness406]

Of the 3 you listed, the last one is the best unit (the one I'd buy), but any of them are okay.

Just wondering, what are the differnce between the back-UPS and the back-UPS Pro for me? Except the fancy LED display

 

You indicated that you only expect about 1 outage a year and I would also suspect that the supply voltage is relativity stable.  That is, no brown-outs.  If that is the case the APC Backup 950 would do what you require.  If you have problems with stable supply voltage, you could go with the Backup Pro which provides for voltage regulation.  (However, I had an APC with AVC a few years ago and I ended up pitching it in the trash because the warranty had expired.  They had a problem with that series of UPS's developing a acute sensitivity to voltage variations and it would switch into the regulating mode at any disturbance.  This was not the big issue for me:  it was the LOUD beep every time time it did it--- 25 to 30 times a day!)  Plus, many modern computer PS's will run on either 120 or 240VAC without any switch setting or change required to the PS!  (100-240VAC, 47-63 Hz is the spec on the first one I looked at.) They are simply not that sensitive to voltage variations.

I think the power here is very stable, have never had any problems with it.

The APC Backup 950 does have AVR, at least it says so on their website.

 

As Gary mentioned, CyberPower will work. I have CyberPower AVRG900U with my unRAID and another PC running on it.

The Cyperpower are the same prices as APC here, so I'd rather go with an APC unit then, but thanks for the suggestion

[Bjonness406]

What are the differnce between APC Back-UPS 1400VA and APC Back-UPS Pro 900?

 

I am choosing between one of them, and the APC Back-UPS 950VA.