First generation E3

[cyruspy]

Does it make sense to buy a second hand Xeon E3 + Supermicro combo today? .

 

I'm willing to add 32GB of RAM to the mix and use that machine as NAS and light virtualization Lab.

 

That second hand combo draws little power and is as cheap as a new Supermicro motherboard. Going with new/current Supermicro/E3v3 combo drives investment to x2 or x3 of the cost.

[DoeBoye]

Does it make sense to buy a second hand Xeon E3 + Supermicro combo today? .

 

I'm willing to add 32GB of RAM to the mix and use that machine as NAS and light virtualization Lab.

 

That second hand combo draws little power and is as cheap as a new Supermicro motherboard. Going with new/current Supermicro/E3v3 combo drives investment to x2 or x3 of the cost.

 

Have you looked at the super cheap e5-2670 option? Here's a giant thread discussing:

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=46077.0

 

Near the end of the thread, someone posted a link to a vendor (Natex.us) that has a package:  2x e5-2670v1, 128GB ECC Buffered Ram, Motherboard for $475: http://www.natex.us/product-p/intel-s2600cp2j-128gb.htm

 

Here's a link to the same package with 64GB of Ram for $425: http://www.natex.us/product-p/s2600cp-cpu-64gb-12800.htm

 

Things to note: It comes with passive heatsinks. You may need to buy new HS/Fan. Also, EEB Form Factor, so you need to make sure your case supports that size.

 

[Edit] Also, I believe there is limited IPMI access as is. You can buy an add-on card that provides full IPMI. References in this thread.

[stourwalk]

One small additional note for accurate comparison of prices

 

Those two Natex packages have *different* RAM - not just different amounts.  The 64Gb RAM is quicker/better RAM than that included in the 128Gb package - if that makes a difference to you.

 

Chris

[cyruspy]

I'm currently repurposing old hardware that I had lying around, the case is a DR-Hank CK-1022 which is really big but I'm not sure about EEB though.

 

For the time being added the guts of my old HTPC (AN-M2HD+Athlon BE-2400+6GB) RAM, which can handle fine NAS functions, but will fall short on the virtualization department. Without operating system, it consumes around 60w when on.

 

I was looking for something like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-MBD-X9SCM-O-Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-3-1-GHz-32-GB-Kingston-ECC-RAM-/301900671168?hash=item464aaea8c0:g:ZPIAAOSwLN5WiBcr

 

It's missing IPMI but will consume around 30w while idle and is pretty silent, IPMI variants are available. Any idea of how much power will the dual socket E5 + 128GB setup consume?, noise level?, I live in a small apartment and WAF is important.

 

I'm currently waiting for 2 x H310 SAS HBAs and 3 x CSE-M35TQB cages to finish building the box.

[cyruspy]

I'm currently repurposing old hardware that I had lying around, the case is a DR-Hank CK-1022 which is really big but I'm not sure about EEB though.

 

For the time being added the guts of my old HTPC (AN-M2HD+Athlon BE-2400+6GB) RAM, which can handle fine NAS functions, but will fall short on the virtualization department. Without operating system, it consumes around 60w when on.

 

I was looking for something like this:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro-MBD-X9SCM-O-Intel-Xeon-E3-1220-3-1-GHz-32-GB-Kingston-ECC-RAM-/301900671168?hash=item464aaea8c0:g:ZPIAAOSwLN5WiBcr

 

It's missing IPMI but will consume around 30w while idle and is pretty silent, IPMI variants are available. Any idea of how much power will the dual socket E5 + 128GB setup consume?, noise level?, I live in a small apartment and WAF is important.

 

I'm currently waiting for 2 x H310 SAS HBAs and 3 x CSE-M35TQB cages to finish building the box.

 

How can I validate the case EEB compatibility?, any requirement for the PSU?, again I'm repurposing one I already had, it's the newest component so far

 

[cyruspy]

Adding info on currently available PSU.

[kamhighway]

@cyruspy

 

Think you might like this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SuperMicro-Motherboard-X9SCM-F-LGA1155-IPMI-SATA3-1u-Heatsink-6xSata-Cables-/222050604545?hash=item33b33f5601:g:rM0AAOSwIwhWT3dZ

 

I bought one from this seller last year and it works great.

 

 

[DoeBoye]

Adding info on currently available PSU.

 

This *might* be problematic, depending on the number of drives you go with. Generally, PSUs with only 1 12v rail are recommended on these boards. If you're careful with spreading the load out evenly, it might not be an issue, but frankly, based on the limited reviews I could find on the internet for this PSU, if buying a new PSU is possible, I would.

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=109 : Some reading around tells me your PSU is a rebadged version of this one.

 

Also, keep in mind that the dual Xeons can pull over 100w a piece at max load (but substantially less the majority of the time. Especially since it takes *a lot* to get them over 50% usage)

 

I've been seeing some really good deals lately on some EVGA PSUs. They generally get great reviews, and I've seen them for under $US100 on sale.

[BobPhoenix]

Does it make sense to buy a second hand Xeon E3 + Supermicro combo today? .

 

I'm willing to add 32GB of RAM to the mix and use that machine as NAS and light virtualization Lab.

 

That second hand combo draws little power and is as cheap as a new Supermicro motherboard. Going with new/current Supermicro/E3v3 combo drives investment to x2 or x3 of the cost.

That is what I am using currently for my virtualization platform both an ESXi 5.0 box and unRAID 6.1.8.

[DoeBoye]

I'm currently repurposing old hardware that I had lying around, the case is a DR-Hank CK-1022 which is really big but I'm not sure about EEB though.

 

I couldn't find anything on a case called "DR-Hank CK-1022". I did find another case called CK-1022. Is this it?

 

The EEB standard is almost the same as Extended-ATX (EATX), size-wise, except that not all the mounting holes line up. The case I linked to above does support EATX, so if yours is the same, then you should be ok. I've read several posts where people have put an EEB board in an EATX case, so I know it's possible, and not too difficult. I believe they either drilled new post holes, or just inserted standoffs to provide support. You may want to google around first, though.

 

It's missing IPMI but will consume around 30w while idle and is pretty silent, IPMI variants are available. Any idea of how much power will the dual socket E5 + 128GB setup consume?, noise level?, I live in a small apartment and WAF is important.

 

It'll certainly pull more than 30w, but people seem to be getting varied results. I would sit down with a drink and a snack, and wade through the 8000 page post in the good deals section regarding this deal, and most of your questions will be answered . Personally, on my system, I think I'm getting around 90w at idle, but I have a bunch of stuff plugged in to the same place, so I need to do some rough math to subtract the draw of all the other stuff, so 90w (after math) may not be perfectly accurate.

[cyruspy]

One small additional note for accurate comparison of prices

 

Those two Natex packages have *different* RAM - not just different amounts.  The 64Gb RAM is quicker/better RAM than that included in the 128Gb package - if that makes a difference to you.

 

Chris

 

Does it make any difference for your use case?, I think that for a home lab, more is better.

[cyruspy]

I'm currently repurposing old hardware that I had lying around, the case is a DR-Hank CK-1022 which is really big but I'm not sure about EEB though.

 

I couldn't find anything on a case called "DR-Hank CK-1022". I did find another case called CK-1022. Is this it?

 

The EEB standard is almost the same as Extended-ATX (EATX), size-wise, except that not all the mounting holes line up. The case I linked to above does support EATX, so if yours is the same, then you should be ok. I've read several posts where people have put an EEB board in an EATX case, so I know it's possible, and not too difficult. I believe they either drilled new post holes, or just inserted standoffs to provide support. You may want to google around first, though.

 

It's missing IPMI but will consume around 30w while idle and is pretty silent, IPMI variants are available. Any idea of how much power will the dual socket E5 + 128GB setup consume?, noise level?, I live in a small apartment and WAF is important.

 

It'll certainly pull more than 30w, but people seem to be getting varied results. I would sit down with a drink and a snack, and wade through the 8000 page post in the good deals section regarding this deal, and most of your questions will be answered . Personally, on my system, I think I'm getting around 90w at idle, but I have a bunch of stuff plugged in to the same place, so I need to do some rough math to subtract the draw of all the other stuff, so 90w (after math) may not be perfectly accurate.

 

Yup, it seems to be the same frame reselled with different brands:

http://www.ocia.net/reviews/asys/page3.shtml

https://www.balaodainformatica.com.br/Produto/6836/Gabinete-DR-Hank-Super-Server-com-cooler-de-220mm-

 

I ate the 46 pages of the deal, there are mixed reports for 2 sockets, around 70-90w with Windows 2012, 230w with ESXi, what are you actually running on your setup to reach 90w?, there's no mention of noise besides running Supermicro cases...

 

I hope the passive heatsinks are enough...

[cyruspy]

Adding info on currently available PSU.

 

This *might* be problematic, depending on the number of drives you go with. Generally, PSUs with only 1 12v rail are recommended on these boards. If you're careful with spreading the load out evenly, it might not be an issue, but frankly, based on the limited reviews I could find on the internet for this PSU, if buying a new PSU is possible, I would.

 

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=109 : Some reading around tells me your PSU is a rebadged version of this one.

 

Also, keep in mind that the dual Xeons can pull over 100w a piece at max load (but substantially less the majority of the time. Especially since it takes *a lot* to get them over 50% usage)

 

I've been seeing some really good deals lately on some EVGA PSUs. They generally get great reviews, and I've seen them for under $US100 on sale.

 

Well, here are some pictures of the PSU:

 

https://www.tecnogaming.com/2010/07/sentey-700w-erp-ss/

 

Well, I would rather not buy a new PSU as this was supposed to be a cheap build, but if I pull the trigger on the dual E5 setup, I might need to add another PSU to the mix.. 

 

EDIT: I'm planning to plug 2 x 120GB SSD disks (coming from decommissioned family laptops) to onboard SATA ports for OS in R1, and 5 x 4TB WD Red drives to start, but I'm already adding 2 x 8 ports HBAs and 3 x 5-in-3 disk cages to accomodate 15 data disks max.

[stourwalk]

One small additional note for accurate comparison of prices

 

Those two Natex packages have *different* RAM - not just different amounts.  The 64Gb RAM is quicker/better RAM than that included in the 128Gb package - if that makes a difference to you.

 

Chris

Does it make any difference for your use case?, I think that for a home lab, more is better.

 

It makes no difference to me - I went with the 64GB version before they reduced the price (although I did persuade them to refund me the difference due to some other issues).  To be honest I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do with my new beast as I just needed to replace an ageing HP N36L that was overheating with 7 drives in it.. The E5-2670's combo from Natex and a Intel P4308 case from the lovely suppliers on Ebay has made for a ridiculously powerful and stunningly cheap replacement.

 

In time I may experiment with VMs and the like but for now mine will probably sit 95% idle to start with - so 128Gb RAM would be just overkill

 

Chris

[cyruspy]

I've been seeing some really good deals lately on some EVGA PSUs. They generally get great reviews, and I've seen them for under $US100 on sale.

 

What "style" should I be looking for?

[cyruspy]

Well, for the record, I'm going with a dual E5-2670 combo from Natex. I still have doubts regarding power consumption.

[DoeBoye]

I've been seeing some really good deals lately on some EVGA PSUs. They generally get great reviews, and I've seen them for under $US100 on sale.

 

What "style" should I be looking for?

 

Hi cyruspy,

 

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you! Regarding the PSU, I mentioned EVGA because I was seeing some good prices/reviews out there, but by no means are they the only PSUs I would look at. Seasonic (Who actually make some of the EVGA PSUs), is also an excellent name. I really like Corsair as well, but their Builder Series have not performed that well of late and I would stay away from them. The higher end Corsair units are still generally well looked at.

 

So, if you are looking for specifics, can you tell us how many/what type of drives you have now, and what do you foresee needing to support in the coming years?

[DoeBoye]

Well, for the record, I'm going with a dual E5-2670 combo from Natex. I still have doubts regarding power consumption.

 

Congratulations! An excellent deal! If I had not already bought a system, I would have definitely gone for that. Would have saved me several hundred dollars! 

 

I used to worry more over power consumption, but at the end of the day, it really doesn't make that much of a difference for me, at least on a cost front. I did the math, and based on my local power rates (averaged over a week, because my utility has 'time of use' pricing) of $0.1075, the difference between a 50w server and a hundred watt server, running 24/7, was less than $4 a month.

 

50w server monthly cost     $3.95
75w server monthly cost      $5.78
100w server monthly cost    $7.91
150w server monthly cost   $11.86

 

Now that said, I don't like to waste anything . Given that you are buying lots of new parts, trying to be efficient, assuming the upfront cost doesn't outweigh the benefits, is still a good idea.

 

The dual cpu server is definitely not the most efficient unit, but I have to say, it idles pretty low considering what you're getting. My old low-power, 4-core AMD cpu-based system idled around 70w. This is with 13 platter drives and an ssd. No video card.

 

I seem to be getting around 90w right now in a system that is close to 8x more powerful. At the end of the day, that's costing me around 5 cents a day more... Pretty good cost benefit, if you ask me .

 

Of course, upfront costs etc etc play in as well, but I was in the market for an upgrade anyways, so the money was getting spent. I could have spent the same or more on a far less capable system, and maybe saved a few cents a day, but then, I wouldn't be able to run a file integrity check on 13 drives while streaming a movie and unzipping a 40GB file .

 

After all that, everybody's situation is different. I don't want to make any assumptions on anyone's situation, but I guess the point I'm making is that the cost of the power usage difference is not as much as one might at first think.

 

Also, my numbers reflect a system that is on 24hours/day. If it's a concern, sleeping your server is definitely something some users do. That could certainly save on power use.

 

tl;dr: The cost difference between an ultra low power server and one that is not, is not as much as you might think .

 

[cyruspy]

Ok, got the E5 combo, my case is not deep enough to accommodate it and CSE-M35TQB with its fan.

[DoeBoye]

Ok, got the E5 combo, my case is not deep enough to accommodate it and CSE-M35TQB with its fan.

That sucks .

 

So the motherboard fits without the drive cage, but with it, it's a no go? If so, how many millimeters are you short? Maybe a skinnier fan on the back of the cage? I see the fan sits in a housing. Can a fan be attached directly to the cage without the housing? If so, does removing the housing give you the required space?

 

If it can be attached without the housing, but the stock fan is still too thick, from the Supermicro page, it looks like it uses a 92x32mm fan. Here are the specs for the fan itself. It looks like to replace it with a fan that pushes a similar amount of air, you need one that moves 56cfm or more. I see a bunch of 25mm deep fans that will fit the bill (though they are mostly 3-pin. Not the end of the world, just can't control via pwm...)

[JonathanM]

Ok, got the E5 combo, my case is not deep enough to accommodate it and CSE-M35TQB with its fan.

Ugly solution, but you could use the rear screw mounts on the drive box in the forward case holes. That would give you an extra 3 inches by poking the drive cage out the front.

[cyruspy]

That's a hotplug cage 

[cyruspy]

Ok, got the E5 combo, my case is not deep enough to accommodate it and CSE-M35TQB with its fan.

That sucks .

 

So the motherboard fits without the drive cage, but with it, it's a no go? If so, how many millimeters are you short? Maybe a skinnier fan on the back of the cage? I see the fan sits in a housing. Can a fan be attached directly to the cage without the housing? If so, does removing the housing give you the required space?

 

If it can be attached without the housing, but the stock fan is still too thick, from the Supermicro page, it looks like it uses a 92x32mm fan. Here are the specs for the fan itself. It looks like to replace it with a fan that pushes a similar amount of air, you need one that moves 56cfm or more. I see a bunch of 25mm deep fans that will fit the bill (though they are mostly 3-pin. Not the end of the world, just can't control via pwm...)

 

The solution would be a 60cm depth case. Tried without the fan and still touches the MB, without being able to secure the box (waiting for the "click" sound)