Hardware Upgrade Possibilities

[Hoopster]

I am considering upgrading my current hardware to "future-proof (is that really possible?)" my server for 3-5 years.  Of course, the way I am about hardware, even if this is "adequate" I may be tempted to upgrade again just because more is always better, right?

 

Uses:

- Media Server:  Plex, up to 3 simultaneous 1080p streams with transcoding

- VMs: 2-3 (Windows 10, others depending on evolving needs, RDP/VNC video)

- Dockers (CrashPlan, OpenVPN, Plex, Handbrake, Guacamole, DelugeVPN, Dolphin, Couchpotato, Sonarr, etc.)

- File storage of primarily media assets (photos, videos, movies, TV, etc.)

 

Want to stick to mini-ITX MB and Lian-Li PC-Q25 case.

 

Current hardware in sig.

 

Upgrades being considered:

 

MB ASRock E3C236D2I http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C236D2I#Specifications

or

MB ASRock C236 WSI http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=C236%20WSI#Specifications

 

E3C236D2I advantage: IPMI; disadvantage: only 6 SATA ports

C236 WSI advantage: 8 SATA ports (4 data drives, dual parity, cache, one free for cache pool or fifth data drive w/o adding controller to PCIe slot); disadvantage: no IPMI

 

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1245 V5 with integrated graphics (10K+ passmark) http://ark.intel.com/products/88173/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1245-v5-8M-Cache-3_50-GHz

RAM: 2 x 16GB Crucial DDR4-2133 ECC Unbuffered http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ct16g4wfd8213

PSU: Silverstone ST45SF-G 450 Watt SFX http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=342

 

Ideally, there would be a server-grade MB with IPMI and 8 SATA ports in the mini-ITX form factor.  Unfortunately, all with IPMI seem to have an M.2 connector (or something else) and only 6 SATA ports max.

 

I do have a 4-port PCIe x4 SATA controller, if needed, but, I am trying to stick with MB ports so I can use PCIe slot for GPU should hardware passthrough to VM become desirable for a future use.  For this reason, I am leaning towards the C236 MSI MB even without IPMI.

 

I have noted that many unRAID users are going all out on dual Xeon E5 2670 builds with 64-128 GB RAM and I think, "wow" not much I could not do with that much horsepower; however, my needs don't justify it right now (unless someone wants to convince me of all the wonderful things I could do with that beast that I have not yet envisioned) 

 

I wish there was a 6-8 core LGA 1151 Xeon with integrated graphics, but, that does not and may not ever exist.  It will be interesting to see what happens with Kaby Lake, Cannon Lake, etc over the next couple of years.  See, I am already contemplating future hardware upgrades.  It's a disease!

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[ashman70]

What do you have for a backup of your unRAID server? I see you have crash plan installed, does that backup the contents of your unRAID server to the cloud or another PC?

[Hoopster]

What do you have for a backup of your unRAID server? I see you have crash plan installed, does that backup the contents of your unRAID server to the cloud or another PC?

 

unRAID shares are currently backed up to cloud.  However, if I do these upgrades, I will likely re-purpose current hardware as another unRAID server to which I will also backup primary server contents. I have extra HDDs, SSD and a spare unRAID Plus key, so, all I need is a case.

[tdallen]

IPMI is a great feature but there's also real value in maxing out the SATA ports on the motherboard.  For me it's situational - if the server is really going be stuck in an out of the way place I'd get the D2I for IPMI.  If I was sure I'd never need the PCIex slot for anything else than a SATA controller I'd consider the D2I.  But generally speaking I prefer the idea of of having all the SATA ports I'll ever need on the motherboard so I'd go with the WSI. 

 

I feel like the E5-2670 would be more of a tinkering platform for me than stable NAS.  The E3 you've selected is a good low-power usage platform for a stable, always-on server.

[Hoopster]

The ASRock E3C236D2I is out as an MB option because of the M.2 slot.  Upon researching further, I discovered that if the M.2 slot is occupied, SATA0 is disabled.  Not only that, but, the M.2 slot really cannot be used for an SSD (possible cache drive) as it is limited to the M.2 2230 form factor (22mm wide by 30mm in length).  Every M.2 SSD I have seen is either 80mm in length (larger capacity) or 42mm in length (up to 256GB).  The few SSDs I have found in the 2230 form factor max out at 64GB as there is not room for more chips. 

 

Of course, the M.2 slot can be used for other cards providing Wi-Fi, bluetooth, etc., but it is really not useful for an SSD storage device; especially not at the expense of 3 SATA ports (2 because of board real estate and another if the M.2 slot is occupied) when compared to the ASRock C236 WSI motherboard.  It looks like I will have to give up IPMI as that has a lower priority than SATA ports.

[JorgeB]

 

 

The ASRock E3C236D2I is out as an MB option because of the M.2 slot.  Upon researching further, I discovered that if the M.2 slot is occupied, SATA0 is disabled

 

Only if you use a SATA m2 SSD,  not so with a pcie SSD, size limit can still be a issue though.

 

[Hoopster]

Here is another possibility for the PS:

 

Corsair SF450 450 Watt Gold SFX http://www.corsair.com/en/sf-series-sf450-450-watt-80-plus-gold-certified-high-performance-sfx-psu

 

That seven year warranty is very good.  Plus it has 2 more 4-pin molex and one more SATA connector than the Silverstone.  Comes in handy with the Lian-Li PC-Q25 case (3 molex for the 5 disk hot swap bay)

[Hoopster]

 

 

The ASRock E3C236D2I is out as an MB option because of the M.2 slot.  Upon researching further, I discovered that if the M.2 slot is occupied, SATA0 is disabled

 

Only if you use a SATA m2 SSD,  not so with a pcie SSD, size limit can still be a issue though.

 

Only problem with a PCIe SSD is that mini-ITX boards have only one PCIe slot.  If I needed that for another SATA controller, or if I wanted to use it for a GPU for VM passthrough, PCIe SSD is out as well.  The more I think about it, the more I value onboard SATA ports. 

 

My original MB had only four onboard SATA ports and I had a 4-port x4 SATA controller in the PCIe slot.  But, of course, that was before unRAID supported VMs with hardware passthrough.

 

Of course, I do realize that the real limiting factor in all of this is the mini-ITX form factor.  If I didn't want to stick with that for this build, none of this would be an issue.

[JorgeB]

 

 

The ASRock E3C236D2I is out as an MB option because of the M.2 slot.  Upon researching further, I discovered that if the M.2 slot is occupied, SATA0 is disabled

 

Only if you use a SATA m2 SSD,  not so with a pcie SSD, size limit can still be a issue though.

 

Only problem with a PCIe SSD is that mini-ITX boards have only one PCIe slot.  If I needed that for another SATA controller, or if I wanted to use it for a GPU for VM passthrough, PCIe SSD is out as well.  The more I think about it, the more I value onboard SATA ports. 

 

My original MB had only four onboard SATA ports nd I had a 4-port x4 SATA controller in the PCIe slot.  But, of course, that was before unRAID supported VMs with hardware passthrough.

 

Of course, I do realize that the real limiting factor in all of this is the mini-ITX form factor.  If I didn't want to stick with that for this build, none of this would be an issue.

M2 is not shared with the pcie  slot, you can use both.

[garycase]

... Only problem with a PCIe SSD is that mini-ITX boards have only one PCIe slot.

 

You misunderstood Johnnie's comment => the M2 slot can accommodate M2 SSDs that interface via SATA or via the PCIe bus.    A PCIe M2 unit does not occupy the physical PCIe expansion slot -- it still plugs in to the M2 slot.

 

[garycase]

r.e. your motherboard choice => I'd definitely go with the C236 WSI for the 8 SATA ports.

 

Agree IPMI is a nice feature, but in this case I think the trade-off favors the higher SATA port count and preserving the PCIe expansion slot.

 

 

r.e. the dual 2670 builds => I've looked at those too; but I think a mini-ITX, very low power setup that can still generate over 10,000 PassMarks is a FAR better choice.    Much newer technology;  FAR lower power consumption; and still PLENTY of "horsepower" for about anything you're likely going to want to do.

 

 

[Hoopster]

... Only problem with a PCIe SSD is that mini-ITX boards have only one PCIe slot.

 

You misunderstood Johnnie's comment => the M2 slot can accommodate M2 SSDs that interface via SATA or via the PCIe bus.    A PCIe M2 unit does not occupy the physical PCIe expansion slot -- it still plugs in to the M2 slot.

Yes, I misunderstood.  Thanks for the clarification.  However, as Johnnie noted, the 2230 size eliminates every M.2 PCIe SSD as well.  Clearly, ASRock never intended the M.2 slot to be used for a storage device.

[garycase]

... However, as Johnnie noted, the 2230 size eliminates every M.2 PCIe SSD as well.  Clearly, ASRock never intended the M.2 slot to be used for a storage device.

 

This is a very frustrating design choice (on the E3C236D2I)  by AsRock.  MOST 2230 M.2 cards are indeed Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, or Cellular cards -- BUT these require either key A or key E ... and this motherboard has a key B slot, which is designed for SATA or PCIe x2 SSDs.  A Wi-Fi/Bluetooth/Cellular card will physically fit, but won't work in this slot -- so it IS designed for storage ... but as you've found out 2230 SSDs are VERY hard to find.

 

It's a shame they didn't make it a 2242 slot, as you can get these SSDs with up to 500GB of capacity, and I suspect 1TB units will be forthcoming soon.

 

In any event, for what you want to do, I think the C236 WSI is a better choice anyway.

 

[JorgeB]

Thanks Gary for clarifying, what I was trying to point out is that is the normal behavior for most boards with a m2 slot, one of the SATA ports will be disable only if the SSD used is SATA, that won't happen with a PCIe SSD which also is the preferred type to use, as it is much faster.

[garycase]

Agree with the PCIe units.  I recently built a system for a friend using a SamSung 950Pro NVME SSD for the primary OS drive => its performance is absolutely stellar!!

 

Not something you'd need for UnRAID, but certainly a great drive for an OS [Friend's system was a Win 10 Pro setup].

 

 

The M.2 slot in the E3C236D2I is essentially useless, however, as it's virtually impossible to find a 2230 SSD => I was looking to see how large I could find one; and in fact haven't been able to find ANY !!  There are plenty of 2242's => I have to wonder if they would actually fit on the board, but at this point it seems essentially a mute point.

 

[Hoopster]

Looking at the board pictures/diagrams, I wondered if a 2242 M.2 card would physically fit as well (of course, without the anchor screw); however, the C236 WSI is a better choice for my needs.

 

Reading the E3C236D2I manual, I notice that there is no mention of how the M.2 slot is keyed. (A, B, E, M).  The only mention of the supported form factor (2230) is in the motherboard layout diagram.  In the M.2 card installation section there is no mention of this, nor is there an indication of how the slot is keyed.  The diagram (generic and used in multiple manuals I am sure) appears to show a card much larger than 2230 and it appears to be B and M keyed.

 

Only from the photo of the board on the product page can you see that the slot appears to be B keyed.

 

Overall, ASRock has done a very poor job of implementing and explaining the use of the M.2 slot on this board.

[spencers]

C236 WSI + E3-1245 = the bees knees

 

Best upgrade I've done so far in my Q25B setup!

[garycase]

Looking at the board pictures/diagrams, I wondered if a 2242 M.2 card would physically fit as well

 

I'm certainly not going to buy one to find out; but I suspect it would indeed fit (without, of course, the screw)

I agree that the C236 WSI is a much better choice.

 

 

... I notice that there is no mention of how the M.2 slot is keyed. (A, B, E, M).

...

Only from the photo of the board on the product page can you see that the slot appears to be B keyed.

 

The photo looks like a B key; plus the manual indicates it supports both SATA and PCIe units, which clearly implies it's designed for a storage device (SSD), as the PCIe interface wouldn't be used/required for a WiFi/Bluetooth card.

 

 

... Overall, ASRock has done a very poor job of implementing and explaining the use of the M.2 slot on this board.

 

Absolutely agree !!  In fact "very poor" is giving them more credit than they deserve 

[garycase]

FWIW, I wrote a note to AsRock Rack and asked whether or not the E3C236D2I would support a 2242 module.

 

Specifically, I asked the following:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I note that the specifications say this only supports M.2 2230 SSDs

 

Is that accurate?    I cannot find ANY SSDs in that size ... the

smallest available units seem to be M.2 2242 SSDs.

 

Does this motherboard support 42mm units?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I received a reply today, which certainly implies that a 2242 will fit on the board:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding your question, this board only support M.2 2230 SSDs due to the design limitation.

And we understand that it would be difficult to find the place to buy M.2 2230 even from our side.

So if you can only find 2242, we would suggest to use 2242 without the screw locked. 

Please don't hesitate to contact me if any further questions, thanks!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Clearly the C236 WSI is a FAR better choice than the E3C236D2I for your upgrade (and I suspect you've already ordered one) ... but just thought I'd annotate this thread to confirm a 2242 COULD be used with the E3C236D2I.

 

[Hoopster]

I ended up going with the following hardware upgrades (everything is purchased and in varying stages of delivery):

 

-MB: ASRock Rack C236 WSI ($199.99 from Amazon)

-CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1245 V5 ($302.99 from Amazon)

-RAM: 2x16GB ECC unbuffered Crucial CT16G4WFD8213 ($178 from Beach Camera through Amazon); it is much more expensive now everywhere I look - over $100 a stick

-PSU: Corsair SF450 SFX ($89.99 from Amazon); only complaint, very short modular cables. Note: replacing my Corsair ATX CX430 PSU with this unit with existing hardware resulted in an idle temp drop of 2-3 C because of increased airflow due to smaller size and fewer cables

-CPU Cooler:  I would have likely been OK with stock Intel, but, I ordered a Noctua NH-L9x65 ($49.99 from Amazon)

 

I will re-purpose existing hardware as a nice backup server.

 

 

[garycase]

Nice upgrade.  I agree the stock cooler would have been fine, but the Noctua's are oh-so-nice 

 

... switching to an SFX power supply in the PC-Q25B is a BIG improvement.  I've said for a long time that despite Lian-Li's claim that the case supports ATX power supplies, they are WAY too tight and restrictive, so you should only use SFX units.

 

The exception is if you add one of the Lian-Li extenders that extend the PSU out the back several inches -- but there's really no reason to do that.  [ https://www.coolerguys.com/products/lian-li-power-supply-unit-extender-pc-pe01-black-or-silver?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&gclid=CJOW1ofut9ACFVMvgQodsXMC6w ]

 

 

[Hoopster]

Another item I recommend in mini-ITX cases that support an ATX power supply is the adapter bracket pictured here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BYB33J8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Instead of just centering the SFX power supply in the space intended for the full-size ATX PSU (as with the bracket included with the Silverstone SFX units and the bracket available from Corsair), the bracket positions it at the "top" of the space leaving all of the extra space at the "bottom" and creating even more space between the SFX PSU and the CPU fan.

[garycase]

Nice find.  I started to comment that it was included with the Silverstone units -- thinking perhaps the Corsair SFX unit you bought (with the short cables, per another discussion we had) didn't include an adapter.  Actually, re-reading your post, apparently it isn't included, but is "available".

 

But the distinction r.e. the location of the SFX unit is indeed very nice -- I may even switch out the bracket in my Q25B "one of these days" => the extra space for my not-so-small hands would indeed be nice when "fiddling" 

[garycase]

Also, just realized that's a Silverstone bracket.  Too bad they don't include that one with their SFX power supplies.

 

[Hoopster]

Yep, the Silverstone SFX units include an adapter which centers the SFX unit in an ATX space; not the one I linked.

 

Corsair includes no bracket at all and the one available from them is just a centering bracket as well as seen here: http://www.corsair.com/en/sfx-to-atx-psu-adapter-bracket