Lime-Technology Shutdown?

[unraided]

In my line of work, I know people only by name, not by face and actually meeting them face to face either and sometimes I'll never actually meet up with them face to face, so for me knowing that the mans name is Tom, I have no problems referring to him my his actual name.

[reggie14]

That's good to hear that he got back to you. Tom is the kind of bloke that doesn't get back to you by choice, but because of the time restrictions that his constantly faces. He always working on improving unRAIDs features and bug fixes and other stuff.

 

I'm not trying to be snotty, but how do you know that?  It looks like you registered a month and a half ago.  I guess I shouldn't talk, given I'm less involved than you, but based on release dates and his posting history, it looks like the Lime Tech dev disappears for months at a time, presumably because he gets busy with other activities (e.g., possibly another job, life, etc.).  I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, but I think it ought to change expectations.  The problem is new users have no way of knowing what their expectations should be based on what's on the official site.

 

By the way, I haven't posted here for a few days, but I'm really glad about what's going on. I see there's the new unofficial manual on the wiki, and there's been a little work at updating it.  I'll try to do my part if/when I get comfortable with unRAID. 

 

I'm also glad NAS is trying to come up with a page describing the support options.  I have a few comments though.  First, I was a little concerned about the initial suggestion that unRAID installs running addons shouldn't request official support from Lime Tech.  Of course its always a good idea to make sure some combination of mods aren't the cause of a problem, but there are almost certainly plenty of times when its pretty clear a user's issue is in the core product, not the addon.  If its not clear if/when someone is going to hear back on a tech support question, it doesn't make sense to turn off mods indefinitely.  I think the current language on the page strikes a pretty good balance. 

 

Second, I guess other people would know better than I, but is it really true that:

It is the community's experience that emails are promptly answered typically less than 1-2 days later (often hours later).

Maybe my experience is abnormal, but as I said before, I had both of my questions from the last few months go completely unanswered.  It kind of looks like Tom can disappear for extended periods of time.  I don't know how good he is about responding to email during those periods, but I'm a little skeptical.  Unless someone knows something I don't, it seems like there really ought to be a pretty direct warning that while your question may get answered promptly, the developer isn't always available so you may not get an answer at all.  Which, brings me to my third comment: I think the "No known SLA or warranty statements exist." should modified so it uses plain language rather than the current contractual-style language.  I don't have a strong preference for what it should say, but I think it could get combined with the statement I suggested above that said you may not get an answer at all.  Rather than saying there's no SLA, instead say something like "Commercial support is offered on an intermittent basis.  Lime Tech does not guarantee that it will respond to all support requests", or something like that.

 

That information really should be on the main support page from the official site.  Maybe whatever the community comes up with can be used as the basis for a new official support page.

[unraided]

No you're right to make your judgement and comments reggie14, it is a much heated debate/topic at the moment. Well I can only comment on my experiences and service that Tom has given me and I'm sorry that others have had to wait longer fir their calls of support or purchases, etc...

I've contacted Tom a few times and have ways received a response within a day or two. My questions and requests were basic hence the quick reply. Maybe others have asked for the same and have simply cauught him at worse off situations, again I can't say or comment too. It is becoming more and more noticable that some members are not getting replies or the service which they would normally come to expect from a bigger company. I too believe Tom should get some hired help to meet with the demand, but that is something he'll need to do or enforce, though us as the community can suggest.

No one really knows what he does whether he is working on fixes to updates to god knows what, were all guessing, I just think that his busy on something and he wouldn't neglect his current and future customers on purpose, why would you you?

[purko]

Tom is the kind of bloke that doesn't get back to you by choice, but because of the time restrictions that his constantly faces. He always working ...

So that must be a cultural difference then.  Where I grew up, the way you tell the above story would imply that you've intimately known the person for years and that you really know what you're talking about.  I see the mistake in my interpretation.  Forget I asked.   

 

[dogmanky]

The email I recieved ended with:

 

"Cheers,

Tom"

 

 

Do I know him?  Nope.. 

 

That's good to hear that he got back to you. Tom is the kind of bloke that doesn't get back to you by choice, but because of the time restrictions that his constantly faces. He always working on improving unRAIDs features and bug fixes and other stuff.

 

It's interesting how all of you here are on first name basis with him.  Am I the only one who never met the guy?

 

[dogmanky]

Thanks for that feedback btw... 

 

 

 

Hi dogmanky. Run WHS? I'd wait a bit more. The architecture, the OS and structure in which unRAID is built on is far superier, backwards compatible file system and to my opinion and is much more resilent than WHS.

Sure it has taken a long time so far and I do not hold that against you (I would also feel anonyed if I was in your circumstance) but I'm sure Tom will process your order any time soon and I can only say the time waiting to get your USB key will out weigh the benefit of using unRAID then any other NAS option out there.

You've probably emailed Tom already, but email him again, ask him in a polite way what is happening with your order, his probably inandated with heaps lf work as per normal. Normally when you order a licence for an existing USB drive that you physically own already (giving Tom the GUID of your USB drive), you'll get a licence file for it with in one to two days max, these orders Of having it with a USB drive from Tom himself might take longer I don't know for sure. My 2c worth.

 

 

 

Want me to make you a key?

 

 

Great response.  I pay someone $170, I just expect to receive what I bought or at least have some level communication if there is going to be any delays.  The only reason I bought the keys from Lime-Tech was to guarantee compatability.  I'm considering scrapping the entire Unraid plan and just installing Windows Home Server.  Not what I want, but I have $3000 in hardware sitting idle.

 

 

[NAS]

When you received your order can you post a summary of when you ordered and when you received so we can decide if we need to  reflect some edge cases in the support wiki page.

 

ta

[reggie14]

When you received your order can you post a summary of when you ordered and when you received so we can decide if we need to  reflect some edge cases in the support wiki page.

 

ta

 

Orders are different than support.  Although, it's a good idea to give some indication of how long it will take to receive orders.  I got my key pretty quick (a little more than 1 day), but I would have expected it instantly if I hadn't seen complaints on the forums before I ordered.  I thought that process was usually automated.

 

By the way, did you see my suggestions/comments that were tacked on to the end of my last message? 

[NAS]

I think there is value perhaps in real users adding a section to the support page with some "as seen" timescales both good and bad. My gut is that almost always support emails are answered very quickly but during some circumstances dev or real life causes responses to be very long. This is what it is and if we reflect that in the wording users can accept it rather than thinking they are the exception.

 

Perhaps you could add your thoughts to the wiki in your own words.

[reggie14]

I'd be happy to add wording, but I'm concerned about accuracy.  As I said, I'm concerned that the current wording doesn't accurately reflect reality, but I haven't been around long enough to be very confident of my own thoughts.  There seems to be some grumbling about the timeliness of responses to orders and support requests, but I don't have extensive knowledge here.  It would be nice if we could come up with some sort of group consensus before I (or someone else) start editing that part of the page.

 

The potential problem I see with just adding various user reports of timescales for responses is that we'd essentially be relying on readers to do an analysis of what that means.  That might not be such a bad thing if we thought we'd get a representative sample of user reports on there, but I doubt that's going to happen.  So, I think it would be better if we could try to do the analysis, and just tell users on the wiki what they should know.

[boof]

I think there is value perhaps in real users adding a section to the support page with some "as seen" timescales both good and bad. My gut is that almost always support emails are answered very quickly but during some circumstances dev or real life causes responses to be very long. This is what it is and if we reflect that in the wording users can accept it rather than thinking they are the exception.

 

Perhaps you could add your thoughts to the wiki in your own words.

 

In which case we would have to define what a support email is.

 

I sent an email to limetech last year asking around timescales and / or possible changes to the licensing structure as hinted by them on the forum. This was to aid an upgrade path decision I faced regarding licensing.

 

I didn't receive a response but just let it slide.

 

I was a licence holder at the time (paying customer?) and I would class that as a support email though I suspect many others would not as it was not a direct request for help with a problem.

 

If I were filling out the wiki page suggested I would be saying I had received no response to a support request so a definition of 'support' may need to be clarified...

[WeeboTech]

I think there is value perhaps in real users adding a section to the support page with some "as seen" timescales both good and bad. My gut is that almost always support emails are answered very quickly but during some circumstances dev or real life causes responses to be very long. This is what it is and if we reflect that in the wording users can accept it rather than thinking they are the exception.

 

Perhaps you could add your thoughts to the wiki in your own words.

 

In which case we would have to define what a support email is.

 

I sent an email to limetech last year asking around timescales and / or possible changes to the licensing structure as hinted by them on the forum. This was to aid an upgrade path decision I faced regarding licensing.

 

I didn't receive a response but just let it slide.

 

I was a licence holder at the time (paying customer?) and I would class that as a support email though I suspect many others would not as it was not a direct request for help with a problem.

 

If I were filling out the wiki page suggested I would be saying I had received no response to a support request so a definition of 'support' may need to be clarified...

 

I would not consider that a support request.

limetech does not usually provide timescales. and changes to licensing is a business decision.

 

Fact of the matter, there is a mixed bag as to what occurs with these types of questions.

I do believe it at least deserves a response.

 

If you bought a system and it did not function and required assistance, I'm sure you would get a response and if you didn't there would be reason to jump up and down.

[boof]

I would not consider that a support request.

 

 

Hence the reason to define what is valid.

 

If I turned such emails away at my place of employment from customers on the grounds they were not support requests I'd be out of a job sharpish and we'd be down on customers..

[WeeboTech]

I would not consider that a support request.

 

 

Hence the reason to define what is valid.

 

If I turned such emails away at my place of employment from customers on the grounds they were not support requests I'd be out of a job sharpish and we'd be down on customers..

 

I hear ya, Feel ya and I would have the same issues.

[Joe L.]

I would not consider that a support request.

 

 

Hence the reason to define what is valid.

 

If I turned such emails away at my place of employment from customers on the grounds they were not support requests I'd be out of a job sharpish and we'd be down on customers..

 

I hear ya, Feel ya and I would have the same issues.

My dentist has a sign in his office, it says:

 

Ignore your teeth, and they'll go away....

It works exactly the same way with your business.

 

Joe L.

[WeeboTech]

I would not consider that a support request.

 

 

Hence the reason to define what is valid.

 

If I turned such emails away at my place of employment from customers on the grounds they were not support requests I'd be out of a job sharpish and we'd be down on customers..

 

 

 

I hear ya, Feel ya and I would have the same issues.

My dentist has a sign in his office, it says:

 

Ignore your teeth, and they'll go away....

It works exactly the same way with your business.

 

Joe L.

 

That's humorous, but also quite the reality check at the same time.

[NAS]

Some potentially interesting stats:

 

Limetech has posted on 13 separate days here since 2009. About half of these days were 1-2 posts.

Limetech has posted once in the last 40 days.

There hasn't been a www news update in over 3 months.

There has been one new release of unRAID this year.

The RB-1200 "might" have been out of stock for 3 months (based on news item saying out of stock then and still being out of stock now - could be nonsense).

Joe. L has posted 3 times more and WeeboTech a bit shy of twice more than Limetech.

 

No conclusions drawn just some stats for context.

 

[BRiT]

Here's some more stats:

 

I am tired.

I am out of OJ.

I like poptarts.

 

[WeeboTech]

Seems like Tom needs help.

Thanks to all the forum members who contribute positively to the community.

Tom always mentions in private communications how nice , and great, this community is.

I'm sure y'all are appreciated.

[barrygordon]

Not one to stifle meaningful disussions, but I think all meaningful items re this topic have been said.

Perhaps it is time we closed this and not let it become a "Rant" which is so common on other forums.

[NAS]

We are trying to define in words the community's statement on support . Part of this is defining real life commercial support. We cannot simply say "no commercial support on the forum" without facts.

 

The discussion is far from dead. In many respects it is only beginning to get useful documented output.

[dogmanky]

We are trying to define in words the community's statement on support . Part of this is defining real life commercial support. We cannot simply say "no commercial support on the forum" without facts.

 

The discussion is far from dead. In many respects it is only beginning to get useful documented output.

 

I agree with NAS.  Providing we remain civil, mature,  and choose our comments wisely.. this is a good thread.

[SSD]

Not one to stifle meaningful disussions, but I think all meaningful items re this topic have been said.

Perhaps it is time we closed this and not let it become a "Rant" which is so common on other forums.

 

I agree!  There have been a number of such threads over time and they never do anything but get people riled up.  NAS knows this becuase he's always in the middle of them.  Tom never gets involved.

 

Although the support situation with LimeTech is not perfect - the forum members are extraordinarily knowledgable and helpful.  When there have been big data recovery problems that the forum has not been able to solve (which is quite rare), forum members suggest reaching out to Tom who has usually gotten involved and helped.  I myself, as a newbie, had an aweful problem and Tom held me hand through it and I recovered my data.

 

Perhaps the fact that not even one paying customer has tried to sell their license here (becuase of lousy support) is an important to remember and highlight.  In fact I can only remember one user selling their license and abandoning unRAID in the 2-3 years I've been here - and he just wasn't interested in maintaining a media server.

 

If this thread defines "support" in a way that scares off new customers it would be a shame.  Truth is we all think a lot of this product or else we wouldn't be here.

[reggie14]

If this thread defines "support" in a way that scares off new customers it would be a shame.  

 

It shouldn't be about scaring new customers away, or placating their fears.  It should be about giving potential customers accurate information about the level and type of technical support they will receive.  I agree any statement about support should make it clear there is a very active and helpful user-community.  I think the main remaining sticking point is a statement describing official/commercial support.  Why are you worried that will scare people off?

 

I agree with NAS- I think we still need to discuss the statement regarding support.  As I said, I'm willing modify the support page based on my concerns in the second half of this post, but I never really got a clear indication if people thought that was a good or bad idea.

[NAS]

If this thread defines "support" in a way that scares off new customers it would be a shame.  

 

It shouldn't be about scaring new customers away, or placating their fears.  It should be about giving potential customers accurate information about the level and type of technical support they will receive.  I agree any statement about support should make it clear there is a very active and helpful user-community.  I think the main remaining sticking point is a statement describing official/commercial support.  Why are you worried that will scare people off?

 

I agree with NAS- I think we still need to discuss the statement regarding support.  As I said, I'm willing modify the support page based on my concerns in the second half of this post, but I never really got a clear indication if people thought that was a good or bad idea.

 

reggie14 i have tried to capture your opinions in as balanced a way as possible. Please look at them and edit/undo as you see fit.

 

http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Support

 

Personally i think it is shaping up well and explains the real situation in a fair way.

 

It is far better to define it in this way and set realistic customer expectation than the alternative. One pissed of customer can easily disuade many more users than a real statement on support. The proposed method of "dont tell them any bad truths, they may never notice" is naive and doesn't work.