Two unRAID Plus Licenses?

[jcarmi04]

That's a big ol double edge sword.

 

I agree (and no huge dig on Tom/lime-tech) that more current info/updates and more active product support would be great - almost necessary for the company to reach a more broad (less tech savvy) market.

 

Buttttt, then this will (essentially) make this topic a moot point, as the currently low price we can purchase the licenses for will increase.

 

Just my 2 pennies

[NAS]

I see your point but to be fair the community isnt asking for the world. 15 minutes a week would solve this.... i mean even 15 seconds a week would give us

 

 

"Beta 5 progressing nicely, new stable predicted in 3 weeks, no new significant bugs found. purchased new coffee and its great"

 

The problem isnt one of time it is one of motivation

[SSD]

Funny this comes up at a time of unprecedented involvement by Limetech. Sometimes I feel these criticisms, right as the author thinks  they are, just grate on Tom's nerves and drive him away from participating. I think, for good or bad, we just have to accept the things we can't change.

[NAS]

Obviously many people have come to accept it; that goes without saying. However a code of silence or a rule of no comment inst gong to happen.

 

Rightly or wrongly customers are allowed to have their opinion.

 

And I agree it almost certainly does annoy Limetech, and quite rightly so since the company relies on the community to do business.

 

It took me longer to write this reply than it would for Limetech to solve the problem.

[sbukolt]

Do we have a EULA? What is the policy on reselling?

 

Sure we have a EULA. It's clearly labeled and enclosed with the application. See the file; "License.txt" on your flash drive. Also, see the text. "Always have a backup..." where the 2-packs are listed for sale. I'd say the intention is clear, and clearly not splitting cost or setting up backyard resellers. From the evidence here, I can't help but wonder how anyone can legitimately argue that the publisher condones sharing or splitting the cost outside of immediate family? Common practice? Hardly. Show me one other commercial software application were the publisher allows separate entities to buy and split a volume license. Finally, how about cutting the hypocritical whining about how we deserve to hear more from the publisher while we enjoy what is likely the best software in its class at nearly free prices, and what appears to be perpetually free upgrades, all the while praising the product of his work.

[aiden]

Finally, how about cutting the hypocritical whining about how we deserve to hear more from the publisher while we enjoy what is likely the best software in its class at nearly free prices, and what appears to be perpetually free upgrades, all the while praising the product of his work.

 

There are several "venerable" agents on this forum who use the product yet berate the company time and time again.  They lurk and then pounce when opportunities present to allow them to trumpet the same tired arguments to help enlighten those of us who may not have heard their idealistic views.  Until one of them creates something that is better, I take their comments with a grain of salt and remind myself that I have a cheap, fault tolerant, production class NAS in my house thanks to what Tom has done.

[queeg]

Making vague accusations about others doesn't help and it's a form of profiling.  The OP's message is that it is misleading and this same comment comes up over and over.  From a business point of view I would think that maintaining happy customers from the start far outweighs the other arguments.

First impressions and all that.

[SSD]

There are several "venerable" agents on this forum who use the product yet berate the company time and time again.  They lurk and then pounce when opportunities present to allow them to trumpet the same tired arguments to help enlighten those of us who may not have heard their idealistic views.  Until one of them creates something that is better, I take their comments with a grain of salt and remind myself that I have a cheap, fault tolerant, production class NAS in my house thanks to what Tom has done.

 

+1

 

Making vague accusations about others doesn't help and it's a form of profiling.  

If we couldn't make vague accusations in the anonymous forums that'd hardly be any fun at all.  And, for the record, I don't think it was vague or an accusation.  Profiling?  ROFL

 

The OP's message is that it is misleading and this same comment comes up over and over.  From a business point of view I would think that maintaining happy customers from the start far outweighs the other arguments.

First impressions and all that.

 

Does come up from time to time.  Tom has it within his control to set policy on this - we the forum can't.  His policy is to discourage it.  No way he could enforce anyway.  So your premise is that a user would be less put off by a firm "not allowed'" than a more subtle appeal to the person's moral compass of abiding by the authors wishes.  Not sure I agree with you.  I kind of like and respect Tom's policy.  If you did do it, you are left less feeling like you got away with something, and instead just make you feel bad.  Subtle, but I think effective.  My guess is the OP will buy his license with a slight grumble and never regret his decision.

 

So we are where we are until the next person posts a similar question.

[aiden]

Making vague accusations about others doesn't help and it's a form of profiling.

Was being vague on purpose to avoid targeting specific individuals, which is a form of prejudice.  It's an old argument that shouldn't have been brought up in this thread.  That, in a nutshell, was my point.

[WeeboTech]

Obviously many people have come to accept it; that goes without saying. However a code of silence or a rule of no comment inst gong to happen.

 

Rightly or wrongly customers are allowed to have their opinion.

 

And I agree it almost certainly does annoy Limetech, and quite rightly so since the company relies on the community to do business.

 

It took me longer to write this reply than it would for Limetech to solve the problem.

 

Limetech has been involved in stabilizing the 4 series. I believe the kernel oops has been high priority to be corrected.

In addition I've seen posts from Limetech asking about 4k sector drives.

[queeg]

Making vague accusations about others doesn't help and it's a form of profiling.

Was being vague on purpose to avoid targeting specific individuals, which is a form of prejudice.  It's an old argument that shouldn't have been brought up in this thread.  That, in a nutshell, was my point.

 

And my point is that it's only an old issue for those who have been around for awhile.  Every new person who gets interested in unRAID goes to the official sales page first and doesn't comb through the forum for definitions or explanations.  There's no industry standard that conveys what Tom's intentions are.  Customers draw from their own experiences.  Some try to buy the great deal he still offers even though it hasn't been available for a looooonngg time.  They come the the forum asking about it and we end up having to explain that even though he advertises the equipment they should not expect to ever be able to buy it.  The purpose of the forum shouldn't be to explain the company's sales and marketing strategy. 

[queeg]

 

Does come up from time to time.  Tom has it within his control to set policy on this - we the forum can't.  His policy is to discourage it.  No way he could enforce anyway.  So your premise is that a user would be less put off by a firm "not allowed'" than a more subtle appeal to the person's moral compass of abiding by the authors wishes.  Not sure I agree with you.  I kind of like and respect Tom's policy.  If you did do it, you are left less feeling like you got away with something, and more like a cheap jerk with no integrity.  Subtle, but I think effective.  My guess is the OP will buy his license with a slight grumble and never regret his decision.

 

So we are where we are until the next person posts a similar question.

 

The issue couldn't be clearer.  Customers don't like stumbling into this trap and then being bitch slapped by the forum.  And your moral compass references is a glaring illustration of the attitude they encounter.  It's not a morality issue of any kind.  People on this very forum just lucked into a good deal when Newegg mispriced the Supermicro MBD-C2SEE-O motherboard for $19.99.  Are you saying all those buyers are lacking in moral compass because they took advantage of the deal?  Should Newegg have been able to say "We didn't mean it that way so the deal is off"?  They attempt to buy what is offered, only to find out later that there are other restrictions.  Those restrictions should be specifically stated at the time of the purchase.  That's all I'm saying.

 

 

[aiden]

And my point is that it's only an old issue for those who have been around for awhile.  Every new person who gets interested in unRAID goes to the official sales page first and doesn't comb through the forum for definitions or explanations.  There's no industry standard that conveys what Tom's intentions are.  Customers draw from their own experiences.  Some try to buy the great deal he still offers even though it hasn't been available for a looooonngg time.  They come the the forum asking about it and we end up having to explain that even though he advertises the equipment they should not expect to ever be able to buy it.  The purpose of the forum shouldn't be to explain the company's sales and marketing strategy. 

I'm not disagreeing with your arguments.  In fact they are quite obviously facts.  What I am saying is that the forum is replete with threads that started similarly to this, and degenerated into this exact debate.  Why turn this thread down the same tired path that never leads anywhere?

[queeg]

And my point is that it's only an old issue for those who have been around for awhile.  Every new person who gets interested in unRAID goes to the official sales page first and doesn't comb through the forum for definitions or explanations.  There's no industry standard that conveys what Tom's intentions are.  Customers draw from their own experiences.  Some try to buy the great deal he still offers even though it hasn't been available for a looooonngg time.  They come the the forum asking about it and we end up having to explain that even though he advertises the equipment they should not expect to ever be able to buy it.  The purpose of the forum shouldn't be to explain the company's sales and marketing strategy.  

I'm not disagreeing with your arguments.  In fact they are quite obviously facts.  What I am saying is that the forum is replete with threads that started similarly to this, and degenerated into this exact debate.  Why turn this thread down the same tired path that never leads anywhere?

 

Ahh, good question.  And one I'm happy to answer.  I believe that it's better for the future of unRAID and Limetech if every new customer has a good first experience.

 

You yourself stated my best argument which is that it keeps happening over and over.  These are things that can easily be fixed.  To what purpose does it serve not to fix them?

Maybe eventually by shining some light on this issue or by phrasing it in a way that it hit's home then it might be fixed. 

[SSD]

The issue couldn't be clearer.  Customers don't like stumbling into this trap and then being bitch slapped by the forum.  And your moral compass references is a glaring illustration of the attitude they encounter.  It's not a morality issue of any kind.  People on this very forum just lucked into a good deal when Newegg mispriced the Supermicro MBD-C2SEE-O motherboard for $19.99.  Are you saying all those buyers are lacking in moral compass because they took advantage of the deal?  Should Newegg have been able to say "We didn't mean it that way so the deal is off"?  They attempt to buy what is offered, only to find out later that there are other restrictions.  Those restrictions should be specifically stated at the time of the purchase.  That's all I'm saying.

 

Although I agree with aiden about talking about Tom's "business model", this debate on the "morality" of license splitting just demands a responce.

 

First of all, I want to apologize for poorly chosen words "cheap jerk with bad integrity." "Feel bad" would have been a better choice (in fact I edited it to make this change).  If you look, I sent that note at 3:30am after being up almost 20 hours. 

 

Second, I don't think there is anything wrong with a user asking the question about splitting a license.  I also don't think there is anything wrong with a person actually buying a 2 pack and splitting it with someone they know.  But I do think that is is wrong to know the author's policy of discouraging license sharing with a forum stranger, and do it anyway.  Or know the author's policy and say that, because it wasn't put into legaleze, it shouldn't apply.

 

Comparing this to purchasing an item on sale doesn't make much sense.  But say you went to the local pizza joint and they had a 10 pizza deal that amounted to a 50% discount, really aimed at parties and such.  And say there was a long line at the counter - and you said "psst, hey all you want to go in on this deal and all save 50% of our orders".  So the crowd huddles and emerges to make 1 big 10 pizza order.  Or say you're in a restaurent and hear the guy at the table next door talking about buying the 2 for 1 steak dinner special.  His wife isn't interested, and neither is yours, so you say - hey, dude, let's you and I do the 2 dinner special and each save 1/2 on dinner.  Or say you're joining a shopping warehouse, and decide to split the membership fee with another person standing in line.  You go to the counter together and claim he's your brother and get 1 license and one extra card.  If these are great deals why would we feel so awkward doing them?

 

 

[queeg]

 

But I do think that is is wrong to know the author's policy of discouraging license sharing with a forum stranger, and do it anyway.  Or know the author's policy and say that, because it wasn't put into legaleze, it shouldn't apply.

 

They don't know it.  They are new customers and haven't combed the forum.  Try sprouting some empathy.

 

Here is where you bought the obviously mispriced motherboard.  So it's not really about moral compass...it's about what you determine to be moral compass.  Judge not, lest you be judged by others.  Did you bother to ask Newegg if the item was priced correctly before buying?  Did you comb their forum to find out if they think it's right to purchase it like you did?

[SSD]

I just went back and reread the beginning of the thread.  You're right, the community could have been more empathetic.  I know when I first saw unRAID, I looked at that 2 pack combo priced and divided by two and figured that's what I'd need to pay.

 

Hope that with the info NAS added to the wiki and with this thread as an example, the forum can be kinder and gentler on the next one.

 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on ethics.   Maybe we'll find anther thread to debate further.

 

Peace.

[reggie14]

queeg makes a good point about new customers not having a way to know about the 2-pack policy.  If that's really the policy, it should be on the ordering page.  The only thing it says is "Always have a backup! Purchase two registration keys at the same time and receive the second for just $30 more."  I never would have thought reselling a second key was discouraged by Limetech based on that statement anymore than I would think an item at the grocery store on sale for 2-for-$5 means I'm actually supposed to buy 2 items.  I knew people on the forum discouraged it, since I was a forum lurker for a long time before I purchased unRAID, but I never saw Limetech weigh in.

 

And I'm kind of curious if the alleged two-pack policy is really true.  I wasn't able to find a post from limetech that states that policy.  Even if it does exist, it must be at least moderately difficult to find, given searches for limetech posting the words "pack" or "policy" don't find it.  Has Tom ever made a public statement on the 2-packs?

 

I see NAS added language to the wiki on the subject.  I suppose that's good, but this really doesn't seem like something for the community to decide.  If I was a new customer, but I knew the wiki was community-written, I wouldn't put much stock in it.  NAS did a good job with the language in the FAQ entry though.  It reads more like a recommendation, with a warning that the forum won't take kindly to the idea of reselling half of a 2-pack.

 

I was never interested in reselling my second key.  It wasn't worth my time and effort to find someone to split the order with and collect half the payment.  But I may have been more inclined to do that if money was harder to come by.

[JackBauer]

I'm about to buy an unraid license...

 

Is it really no problem later if I need to change out and replace the USB stick with a different one - say a larger one?

 

Can I just copy the USB stick over, or do I need to work with Limetech to get a "replacement" license?

[prostuff1]

Is it really no problem later if I need to change out and replace the USB stick with a different one - say a larger one?

Pick a drive that is big enough that will take you a good long time to fill up.  I have a 2GB drive in my production server and it works just fine.  I have an 8GB in my test server and it also works fine.  Pick a drive that is at least 2GB in size and stay with it.  Replacement flash drives are issued for for broken flash drives, not ones that are "full"

 

Can I just copy the USB stick over, or do I need to work with Limetech to get a "replacement" license?

Yes, you will have to get a replacement license, but getting one for a flash drive that is not broken but only "full" is probably not going to happen.

[JackBauer]

That is unfortunate as there could be other reasons to change flash drives other than a failure...

 

Such as moving to USB 3.0, or just a faster flash drive.

[prostuff1]

That is unfortunate as there could be other reasons to change flash drives other than a failure...

 

Such as moving to USB 3.0, or just a faster flash drive.

 

While USB 3.0 is great and fasterthen USB 2.0, the speed at which you can load the bzroot and bzimage from the flash is already damn fast on USB 2.0.  You doubt you will see any huge improvement from USB 2 to USB 3.  USB 1 speeds were/are dismal compared to USB 2.

 

The entire install of unRAID is itself very small and Tom has no reason to issue a new license because you want to use a larger, or faster, flash drive later on.

[JackBauer]

Ok...

 

The driving reason for me asking this was because I plan to store my primary movie database on the flash drive...  So that my media player would have instant access to that database, without automatically starting up a hard drive for it...  And then only the needed hard drive would be spun up once the movie was selected.

 

As I grow my database, the flash drive size might need to increase.

 

So I either plan for a really large usb drive, or keep a separate usb drive installed explicitly for that purpose.

[prostuff1]

or keep a separate usb drive installed explicitly for that purpose.

 

The above is what you need to so.  I don't know how much the database will be accessed but minimizing writes to the flash drive that contains the unRAID license is a very good idea.

 

I don't current do that but the next time I overhaul my server I will be doing it that way.

[queeg]

You can plug in a second flash drive just for the database if you want.  Just mount it and share if desired.