Raj's Prototype Designs [Discussion Thread]

[neilt0]

Two GBs of RAM is enough for 10 - 15 drives.

 

How is this calculated? How much RAM is required for each drive and what is it needed for? I have 22 drives and 2GB RAM.

 

Cheers.

[Joe L.]

Two GBs of RAM is enough for 10 - 15 drives.

 

How is this calculated? How much RAM is required for each drive and what is it needed for? I have 22 drives and 2GB RAM.

 

Cheers.

It is not "calculated"

 

I have 11 data drives and 512 Meg of ram.  The server works just fine.  The more RAM, the more that will be held in the disk buffer cache.  It may help when rewinding all the way back to the beginning of a DVD, but only if you have really slow disks.  I''ve never seen it affect anything unless I'm trying to run lots of add-ons.

 

It may help if you are running many virtual machines or add-on processes that use memory, but basic file operations need very little RAM.  2 Gig of RAM today is affordable.  When I purchased my server 5 years ago, impossibly expensive if it was even available.  I think I have 4 128Meg strips in my old Intel board.

 

Joe L.

[smackdaddy33]

i was able to bend tabs using needle-nose, hammer & large screwdriver. Thanks for all the advice.

 

I did the same.  You should've seen the look on my wife's face as she rushed into the room and saw me beating the snot out of the brand new computer case that came in the mail that day 

 

I'm pretty sure I'll be picking up a C clamp though when it comes time for the second 5 in 3 since I'll need to be more careful.

[SidebandSamurai]

Hi Everyone,

 

It looks like the "BIOSTAR TA785G3HD" is no longer stocked and might actually be out of production.

 

Might I suggest the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135241 which is an ECS (EliteGroup) A785GM-M microATX Motherboard

 

It has the same number of SATA ports as the original suggested board.

 

Also it also looks like the "SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SEE-O LGA 775 Intel G43 ATX Intel Motherboard" Might also be out of production.  It looks like a compatible replacement for that board might be the

SUPERMICRO MBD-C2SBC-Q-O LGA 775 Intel Q35 ATX Intel Motherboard which is located at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182151

 

Raj,  Thanks for all the suggestions, they are great!

 

Sincerely,

 

Sideband Samurai

[Rajahal]

Thank you for the suggestions, SidebandSamurai.  While both boards you suggested are good choices for unRAID, they are both also about twice as expensive as I would generally consider to be a budget-friendly board.  For a 15 or fewer drive board, I would like it to be around $65 or less (ideally around $50).  For a 20 or more drive board, it should be in the $80 to $100 range.  It is unfortunate that the motherboard market changes so quickly, as it is hard to keep up at times.  I do plan on researching a new budget board soon - one that I will buy and test personally.

[theone]

You should maybe add the cost of unRaid license to the different builds - each build uses a different license and thus cost - free/plus/pro.

 

[prostuff1]

You should maybe add the cost of unRaid license to the different builds - each build uses a different license and thus cost - free/plus/pro.

 

 

While not a bad idea, I would prefer to see it stay off the official price number.  Just add it as a "+ Cost of unRAID license".

 

Even though some may be only using a server that can support 6 drives they may want all the features that are available in the Pro version of unRAID.

[Rajahal]

You should maybe add the cost of unRaid license to the different builds - each build uses a different license and thus cost - free/plus/pro.

 

 

While not a bad idea, I would prefer to see it stay off the official price number.  Just add it as a "+ Cost of unRAID license".

 

Even though some may be only using a server that can support 6 drives they may want all the features that are available in the Pro version of unRAID.

 

This is exactly why I left it off.  Also, if you plan on following one of the expansion paths (say 5 to 10 to 15 bay budget box) then you'll likely want to purchase the Pro license from the beginning.

[bfeist]

Fantastic work Raj. I have two machines that use CoolerMaster Centurion 590 cases which appear to be out of production now. Do you have any recommendations on a replacement (that has 9 front bays and isn't an ugly gamer case)?

 

Also a suggestion: It would be great if you kept the first post up to date with items that aren't obsolete (cases, motherboards, etc). Although I realize that that might be too time consuming.

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

[Rajahal]

Do you have any recommendations on a replacement (that has 9 front bays and isn't an ugly gamer case)?

 

Short answer - no.  All the replacement cases I've used have case windows, bright LEDs, etc...they are all gamer cases.  The ones I like are the Antec 900 & 902 and the Thermaltake V6 (requires sacrificing the top mounted bay if you want to fit three 5-in-3s in there).

 

Also a suggestion: It would be great if you kept the first post up to date with items that aren't obsolete (cases, motherboards, etc). Although I realize that that might be too time consuming.

 

I'm constantly trying to find newer and better parts, but I generally can't keep up with the speed at which the market changes.  Motherboards especially seem to come and go in a matter of a month or two.  I'm currently looking for a new board to replace the Biostar board I list in a lot of my prototypes, but I haven't been able to find one yet.  I also won't list something unless either I or someone else has gotten it to at least Level 1 in testing.  I don't want to recommend boards that look great on paper but turn out to be duds (such my recent fiasco with the ASUS M4A785-M).  I do plan on researching and purchasing a new budget board soon, but of course by the time I get around to recommending it, it will likely be obsolete.

[bfeist]

Do you have any recommendations on a replacement (that has 9 front bays and isn't an ugly gamer case)?

 

Attempting to answer my own question, I found this:

http://forum.coolermaster.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14603&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

They're recommending the nexus prominent 9 which has the exact same guts as the 590. Now I have to find one.

[artagnan]

My project is this:

 

Motherboard: Asus P5B-VM DO (I can buy a new one for 75 Euros. I think it's a good price).

 

CPU: Intel Celeron 430 1.80GHz FSB800 Box Socket 775 (alternatives: "Intel Celeron E3400 2.6Ghz FSB800 1MB Box 775" or "Intel Dual Core E5700 3GHz FSB800 2MB Box 775". I don't know if it's really better to use a Dual Core or if it's enought the Celeron 430).

 

RAM: "G.Skill Performance DDR2 800 PC2-6400 2GB 2x1GB" or "Kingston HyperX Blu DDR2 800 PC2-6400 CL5 2 x 1GB" or "Kingston ValueRAM 4GB DDR2 800 PC2-6400 2x2GB" (Again, here I don't know if 2gb it's enought or maybe for a little more of money put 4gb)

 

Case: Sharkoon Rebel 12 Value

 

Drive Cage(s): 4x Scythe "Hard Disk Stabilizer x4" 4in3 cages (or Chenbro 4 x 3.5; Down the links)

 

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/042/scyhdsx4-detail.html

 

http://www.sona.de/.336324928-Chenbro-4---fach-HDD-K%C3%A4fig-Non-HotSwap-f%C3%BCr-SR10769

 

http://www.sona.de/.1154219972-Chenbro-4---fach-HotSwap-Tray-f%C3%BCr-SR10769

 

Power Supply: Corsair TX650 (Enought for 20-21 HDDS if they are green or 5400 Rpm, right?)

 

SATA Expansion Card(s): Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8

 

Fans: 3x Scythe 120mm fans at front, 2x Tacens Aura II 80mm

 

Unraid USB: 4G Talent Pico (it's not in the hardware compatibility, but other Unraid users have tested it with good results and it's pretty small)

 

 

I'll begin with 12 or 14 HDDS & will expand it until 20 HDDs + 1 Parity HDD in the near future (with another Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8, because, is there any PCI-e with x 6 Sata ports? I know with 2, 4 or 8, but with 6).

I'll use the Server for storing and serving my huge storage (Movies, Music, Pictures, TV shows) to my Popcorn C-200 (in the next future with YAMT).

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

Another questions:

 

*Is it essential the parity disk? Can Unraid work without it? I mean, when I have the first 12 or 14 HDDs, I'll have a Backup of all of them in other HDDs too, and I was thinking about waiting to use the parity disk until I have the total 21 HDDs in the next future.

 

*Anyone with this mobo has tried successfully the powerbutton clean shutdown? I don't want to use a keyboard to shutdown.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[gdourado]

Dear Rajahal,

 

I saw a very nice build you did with an Antec Nine Hundred and 3 5in3's Icydocks.

I was just wondering how you got those 5in3's to fit. How did you took out those lips on the 5 1/4 bays?

 

Cheers and thank you!

[bfeist]

There's a lot of discussion on here on how to do this. Most people just use pliers or a c-clamp to bend the tabs in the case.

 

 

Dear Rajahal,

 

I saw a very nice build you did with an Antec Nine Hundred and 3 5in3's Icydocks.

I was just wondering how you got those 5in3's to fit. How did you took out those lips on the 5 1/4 bays?

 

Cheers and thank you!

[Rajahal]

artagnan:

 

All your components look great.  Unless you plan on using some high-end add-ons (video transcoding, VMs, etc) then the single core Celeron will be fine, as will 2 GBs of RAM.  If 4 GBs of RAM is only a few euros more, then go for it, but 2 GBs is definitely enough.  The PSU is definitely powerful enough.  I would highly recommend the Chenbro hot swap bays since you found them for so cheap.  The motherboard you've chosen can support two of the Supermicro AOC-SASLP-MV8 cards, one in each PCIe slot.  Both will run at full speed as the card itself is only 4x speed.

 

The parity disk is optional.  unRAID will work without it.  However, as you seem to already understand, you won't have any protection from drive failure as long as you aren't using a parity disk.  If you are comfortable with this, then go ahead.

 

The Powerdown script (easy to install via unMenu) works with any motherboard.  You can also shut down the server from the unRAID web management page.

 

gdourado:

 

As bfeist said, I used a c-clamp to flatten the tabs in the Antec 902.  I went to my local hardware store and bought the deepest c-clamp I could find.  The one I use looks almost identical to this:

[artagnan]

Rajahal, thanks for your response. Another users reports that the SASLP doesn't run in the Asus P5B-VM DO x4 slot. Do you know something about that?

 

With the mobo 7 Sata ports (+ 1 esata, that can be used in unraid with a Esata-sata cable = Total 8 Sata ports) + the Supermicro I'll have 16 Sata ports.

If I cann't use another Supermicro card (That would be 24 ports, maybe in the next future unraid can run more than 22), the alternative would be an Adaptec 1430sa in the x4 slot (with this, 20 Sata ports) and a 2 port PCI (this would be the slowest one).

 

About the chenbro HDDs adapter, do you think it will fit in the rebel12 case. Here are the measurements:

 

Chanbro: 146 x 122 x 213 mm / 3x 133,4mm (5,25") - Each adapter

Sharkoon Rebel12 Case: 215 mm x 535 mm x 540 mm

 

In the store where I wanted to buy them say that the Chanbro won't fit in the Sharkoon Rebel12, only will do in a Chanbro case.

 

I have found a very good sustitute for 20 Euros:

 

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=CFP52B

 

Maybe the fan is too noisy and I don't know if I can replace it for a better one. Someone has this CFP52B?

 

 

Thanks again.

[mcdonagg]

This is my plan build for a friend, but I have run into a road block, where can I find the COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 Case? It seems to have been removed from Newegg, and is no longer on Amazon. I love this case (besides those metal tabs) and would hate it if I cant find it.

 

ASUS M4A78LT-M AM3 AMD 760G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

$69.99

 

CORSAIR Builder Series CMPSU-500CX 500W ATX12V v2.3 Active PFC Power Supply

$10.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$59.99

 

Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model KVR1066D3N7/2G

$23.49

 

AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor SDX140HBGQBOX

$37.99

 

NORCO SS-500 5 Bay SATA / SAS Hot Swap Rack Module

$89.99

 

Subtotal: $281.45

 

 

Edit: Should I go with one of these?

Thermaltake V6 BlacX Edition Gaming Chassis Mid Tower Steel Computer Case BlacX Top Mounted HDD Docking Station VM100M1W2Z

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133180

Thermaltake V5 Black Edition Mid-Tower Gaming Chassis With Embedded Handle VL70001W2Z

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133099

 

Edit 2: I Created a PDF of my plan for this server, building it for 6 then 11 then 15 hard drives as I need the room

UnRaid_Plan_Web.pdf

[prostuff1]

The Coolermaster has been discontinued so will be very hard to find.

 

Look through the Enclosures thread for ideas on cases.

[loadme]

Hey Rajahal,

 

I'm planning to rebuild your 12 drive budget build (expandable to 15).

 

Really like your design. Because of the prices and availability here in the EU, I will go with this:

 

5 Drive Starter Box

Mobo: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: 2GB TakeMS DDR3-1333/10667 CL9

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Hard Drives: Green drives (5400 rpm or 5900 rpm), such as WD Green, Samsung EcoGreen, and Seagate LP

Cost: $300 (EU prices from february 2011) + shipping + cost of hard drives

Capacity: 8 TB

 

the reason for only 5 drives is the case, which ships with one 4in3 cage and one single drive rack for 3.5" within a 5.25" slot.

so its a very low budget starter box and capable of expanding from 5 into your 12drive budget box and later even your 15drive box

 

for expansion add:

SATA Expansion Card:

   SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller

   2 port SATA2 Serial ATA II PCI-Express RAID Controller Card (Silicon Image SIL3132)

Cables: 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M 1 unit of 0.5m Multi-lane Internal (SFF-8087) Serial ATA breakout cable, forward x 2

Hot Swap Drive Bays:

   SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure x 3

stronger PSU

 

The board offeres 6 sataII connectors and your suggested card: PCI Express x4 SAS Card will offer another 8 sataII connectors

and to expand to 15 drives later on, you would need to add: 1x PCI-Express SATAII Raid Controller Card.

Will those both fit into the board? It's hard for me to see through PCI-E / PCI-X / PCI-Express slots. The Biostar seems to have 1x PCI-E x1 and 1x PCI-E x16.

So I would use those slots and still have enough bandwith on the mainboard to cross copy data?

 

Because I only need 5 drives for now, I would like to keep the costs low and set it up with no drive cages at first.

first question: Is this fine with the temperature? I would lose 2 fans per cage like in your build. Would i need to add fans to the top?

Next question is about the noise. Is the Centurion 590 rather noisy or quiet, with those 2 pre-installed 120mm fans? Should I replace them? I look forward to build the server to be very quiet.

 

and last question for now: can I somehow disable the LEDs from the front fan?

 

Thanks your build really helps me and saves a lot time.

 

[artagnan]

What is the price of the Supermicro CSE-M35T-1B? Where will you buy it? I could be interested if they'r cheap. Thanks.

[loadme]

What is the price of the Supermicro CSE-M35T-1B? Where will you buy it? I could be interested if they'r cheap. Thanks.

 

they are linked in the first post of this topic. (for US market)

my search engines for hardware are for europe only. there they are available for around 130 € (179 $)

[Rajahal]

The board offeres 6 sataII connectors and your suggested card: PCI Express x4 SAS Card will offer another 8 sataII connectors

and to expand to 15 drives later on, you would need to add: 1x PCI-Express SATAII Raid Controller Card.

Will those both fit into the board? It's hard for me to see through PCI-E / PCI-X / PCI-Express slots. The Biostar seems to have 1x PCI-E x1 and 1x PCI-E x16.

So I would use those slots and still have enough bandwith on the mainboard to cross copy data?

 

Yes, you have enough ports for both of those expansion cards.  The Supermicro will go in the x16 slot, and the SIL3132 will go in the x1 slot.  There's enough bandwidth to handle filling both those cards with drives without any bottlenecks.

 

Because I only need 5 drives for now, I would like to keep the costs low and set it up with no drive cages at first.

first question: Is this fine with the temperature? I would lose 2 fans per cage like in your build. Would i need to add fans to the top?

 

I expect you'll have no problems with temperature, especially since you are using green drives.  The included 4-in-3 cage has it's own fan as well.

 

Next question is about the noise. Is the Centurion 590 rather noisy or quiet, with those 2 pre-installed 120mm fans? Should I replace them? I look forward to build the server to be very quiet.

 

I consider it to be fairly quiet, but of course that's a subjective stance.  If you build the server and find it to be too loud, you can line the inside of the case with corkboard, I've read that it makes a big difference.  My guess is that you'll be satisfied with the noise levels though.

 

and last question for now: can I somehow disable the LEDs from the front fan?

 

I believe you can cut one of the wires to disable the LEDs, but I'm not sure which one.  Generally the black and red wires power the fan and the third wire runs the lights.  However, you may want to do a bit more research there before cutting anything.

 

I do have one final suggestion: If you can find them in the EU, I recommend the Norco SS-500 over the Supermicro cages.  I'm currently working on a review comparing the Norco, Supermicro, and Icy Dock 5-in-3s, but I'll give you the sneak preview - the Norcos are the best.  Not only are they the cheapest, but they have quiet stock fans and better quality drive trays.  They may be rebranded as X-case since you are in the EU.  If you can't find them, then the Supermicros are still a good option, just be prepared to replace the stock fans with some quieter ones.

[loadme]

http://forums.vr-zone.com/hardware-depot/74981-newegg-may-open-doors-europe-other-regions.html

 

its only one or two weeks old and maybe interessting for some of you.

i couldnt find the bays. rather at the biggest search machine for hardware around here, nor at amazon/germany.

 

its incredible. you post me a bay for 89$, which is 64 €. 5in3 drive bays here are available for 100-130 €.

i have never seen anything cheaper.

 

i also looked for the red 5in3 bays you built in this case 3 times for another user. there are pictures around the forums, that are pretty good looking:)

again, only US. still waiting for their support answer, if there is any way to get it shipped to EU

[Rajahal]

I've actually stopped using the red 5-in-3s.  While they do look snazzy, they have substandard airflow.

 

I wouldn't mind ordering some parts for you and shipping them to you, but I expect the shipping would be so expensive that it wouldn't be worthwhile.  As I said before, if all you can find are the Supermicro cages, that's no big deal.  They are still good, just not the best (in my opinion).  Once you replace the fans you'll be happy with them.  These are the fans that I used to replace the stock ones, but certainly others will work as well.

 

You could also look for these Icy Dock 5-in-3s.  They are a bit more expensive, but the stock fans are good quality and don't need to be replaced.

[rich.bingham]

 

and last question for now: can I somehow disable the LEDs from the front fan?

 

I believe you can cut one of the wires to disable the LEDs, but I'm not sure which one.  Generally the black and red wires power the fan and the third wire runs the lights.  However, you may want to do a bit more research there before cutting anything.

 

Short answer: cut the blue wires

 

Long answer:

If you look on the spoke of the fans you'll see a blue and black wire running from the hub to each corner where there is an LED.  If you cut either the blue (power) or black (ground) wire on the spoke you'll break the current path and the LED's won't turn on.  Here's a picture I found of a similar fan (both LED wires have clear insulation in this picture):

Instead of a single cut, I'd recommend cutting a small section out of one wire so it won't inadvertently make contact and turn the LED on.  I'd also recommend not cutting both the blue and black because the ends could inadvertently short together which could damage your power supply and possible other components in the server.  

 

I haven't looked myself, but I would guess that each LED wire will be soldered to a small circuit board hidden by the cooler master sticker (Example).  To do this properly, peel off the sticker, desolder the LED wires and completely remove them from the fan.  If you're looking for quick and dirty, just cut the blue wire.

 

Edit: To clarify Raj's statement, the standard 3-pin fan connector is +12V (red), ground (black), and a tach/sense pin (typically yellow or white).  The fan will operate just fine (LED's included) with only power and ground, the system will just have no way to determine the fans speed.