Raj's Prototype Designs [Discussion Thread]

[dgaschk]

Raj. Hello. Why the switch from the AMD to the Intel proc on the 20 disk box?

 

 

The i3 gives very good at power control.  It can run with very low idel power but when the extra horsepower is needed for add-ons (AirVideo, etc) it has the needed power.

 

The AMD offerings are not quite as good in the same regard.

 

 

I think this question is in regard to the prototype designs. They all use AMD chips except for the 20 disk beast.

[prostuff1]

Raj. Hello. Why the switch from the AMD to the Intel proc on the 20 disk box?

 

 

The i3 gives very good at power control.  It can run with very low idel power but when the extra horsepower is needed for add-ons (AirVideo, etc) it has the needed power.

 

The AMD offerings are not quite as good in the same regard.

 

 

I think this question is in regard to the prototype designs. They all use AMD chips except for the 20 disk beast.

 

I understand that, and my answer was in regard to it. 

 

The reason Intel processors (i3 specifically) are used in the beast builds is because of the onboard video, better idle power, and the ability to deliver much more horsepower when needed.  Most people that build a beast will end up want to run something else on it eventually.

 

AMD current offerings can't touch the i3 for idle power consumption AND horsepower when needed.  Hopefully Bobcat/Bulldozer will put AMD on the same level or ahead of Intel!

[randywhe]

So i've had thing up and running good for over a week now. I initially put 3 2tb seagates in array. 1 as parity, 2 as data & immediately started transferring data from my htpc & pc. I freed up 2 drives from my htpc, so i removed those & tried to add to unraid array. the drives are both WD green caviar disks. 1 is 2tb, the other is 1.5. i want to preclear them. My problem is when i stop array & go to devices the 2 new drives come up as hda & hdb. It should be sd(x) as they are sata drives. my 1st 3 drives are sda, sdb, sdc. The new drives are plugged in the same way with sata cables from the mobo to icy dock 5 in 3 cage. My mobo is: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

 

Is it a setting in the bios that i need to change? if so, what setting is it? (i haven't gone into bios yet & i'm not to familiar with bios settings)

Can i just leave it as hd(x) is there any harm in that?

 

Also the 1st sata port on mobo (sata0) did not work at all in initial setup. It would never recognize any drive connected to it. i just went to next port. i didnt want to go thru hassle of getting a new mobo. That couldn't be a bios/option issue too would it??

thanks

[Rajahal]

Yes, there are BIOS settings that could explain both of those issues.  The first is that you need to go into BIOS and set all your SATA ports to AHCI mode.  This should make your drives appear as SDX instead of HDX.  There is a potential performance penalty when running drives in IDE mode (HDX), but your data is still safe.

 

There is also likely a BIOS setting that says something like 'use 4/6 SATA ports'.  Set it to use all 6.  If the SATA0 port still doesn't work after that, then you may have a defective motherboard (or SATA cable, or HDD, or backplane, etc...try different combination of hardware to suss it out).

[randywhe]

sweet. thanks again for quick response. I will have to wait till i get home to get into the bios menu. I did try different cord & backplane slot & hdd. so it is definitely the mobo sata port, but hopefully it is just a setting. I will check the settings you mentioned. thanks again!

[randywhe]

i went into bios (v02.61) & see no way yo change settings to or from ahci mode or turn ports on/off

on boot screen all drives are recognized as sata but they still show up as hdx in unraid devices menu. anything else i can try?

[prostuff1]

Go get the manual from the Biostar web site and look at page 5 and 28.  Those are the settings you will need to mess with to configure the drives for AHCI mode instead of IDE.

[Rajahal]

Right.  The AHCI settings are usually on the chipset BIOS screens, not the boot screens.

[randywhe]

i dont see anything in my manual or online manual on pages 5 & 28 that corresponds with that. i guess my mobo is actually: TA785G3+ according to manual that came with it, not: TA785G3 HD if that makes a difference... i looked at both manuals online

 

i have looked through every single option of bios but have not seen AHCI mentioned even once. I referred to boot menu just to show that it does recognize drives as SATA on that screen. I will look again & focus on chipset screen.

 

I got this board because i didnt think i'd have to do a whole lot of tweaking as many reccomend it for unraid.

 

I'm getting tired of taking array down & switching keyboard & monitor back & forth from my pc to my unraid tower to keep going into bios. I'm about ready to preclear drives as hdx...

 

Sorry to be a pain but does anyone know the exact bios page & setting specific for my mobo & bios version?

Do i need to update bios?

 

thanks

[prostuff1]

i dont see anything in my manual or online manual on pages 5 & 28 that corresponds with that. i guess my mobo is actually: TA785G3+ according to manual that came with it, not: TA785G3 HD if that makes a difference... i looked at both manuals online

 

i have looked through every single option of bios but have not seen AHCI mentioned even once. I referred to boot menu just to show that it does recognize drives as SATA on that screen. I will look again & focus on chipset screen.

 

I got this board because i didnt think i'd have to do a whole lot of tweaking as many reccomend it for unraid.

 

I'm getting tired of taking array down & switching keyboard & monitor back & forth from my pc to my unraid tower to keep going into bios. I'm about ready to preclear drives as hdx...

 

Sorry to be a pain but does anyone know the exact bios page & setting specific for my mobo & bios version?

Do i need to update bios?

 

thanks

 

In the TA785G3+ manual on page 27 (the number at the bottom of the page) it lists the "OnChip SATA Type" that needs to be set to AHCI.

 

Then also on the next page there is the "SATA IDE Combined Mode" set that to disabled and see what happens.

 

Make sure to save those settings before exiting or what you have changed will not stick.

 

Those are the settings I see in the manual that should control how the ports are seen on the motherboard and if they are presented as IDE (hence the hdX) or SATA (the sdX).

[Plugged Up]

I have a Dune Max with a Gigabit capable Ethernet port.  I did some research and learned if my Unraid NAS had a gigabit port and a processor that can handle it I can take advantage of the Dune's Gigabit port.  While the Dune can't get above 12MB/s on its Ethernet port, I would be able to transfer files between the Unraid NAS and my server at speeds close to 100MB/s.

 

My question is, with the build below, is it possible to add a gigabit ethernet card and would the processor handle gigabit speeds?  Or would I also need to upgrade to a i3 cpu?  If I need to go with an i3, would the ASUS mainbord take it, or is the ASUS board out?  I am hoping I don't need to totally scrap my build specs that I finally decided on...

 

 

5 Drive Budget Box

 

Mobo: ASUS M4A785-M      $74.99

CPU: AMD Sempron 140      $36.00

RAM: Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)   $45.00

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W            $23.99

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case   $69.99

Hot Swap Drive Bays: SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure x 1    $99/99

Hard Drives: Various 2 TB Green drives

 

Cost: ~$350 + shipping + cost of hard drives

 

 

[Rajahal]

The ASUS M4A785-M has built-in Gigabit Ethernet, no extra card needed.  All my builds use built-in Gigabit Ethernet, there's no reason not to these days.  The processor doesn't factor into transfer speeds at all, so yes, the Sempron 140 is more than capable of handling Gigabit transfer speeds.  No need to upgrade it.

 

The other factors would be the drive speed, your network (Cat5e or better network cable, GigE capable switch/router), and your client computer.

 

With unRAID you likely won't ever see 100 Mb/s transfer speeds.  The best I've seen is about 70 Mb/s using a cache drive.  Without a cache drive the best you are likely to see is around 25 Mb/s.  Those are all write speeds (to the server).  Read speeds are faster.  I don't have exact numbers for you, but the read speeds are more than fast enough to stream multiple high-bitrate HD movies at once.

 

By the way, you don't need to transfer files between your Dune player and unRAID, you can stream everything.  You should only need to transfer files between your client computer and your unRAID server.

[smino]

Great work Raj, I love it. I was wondering if anyone ever thought of creating a smaller version of the back blaze box outlined here:

 

http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/

 

I love the fact that you only need to drop the hard drive into the slot standing up and you can easily see the serial numbers on the top of the hard drive. Air flow works really well as well.

 

Now they have room for 45 drives in this unit, which is way too much for me! I'd lover a similar case with 20 odd drives. No 5-3 cages or trays needed! But perhaps with a redundant power supply...

 

 

[randywhe]

In the TA785G3+ manual on page 27 (the number at the bottom of the page) it lists the "OnChip SATA Type" that needs to be set to AHCI.

 

Then also on the next page there is the "SATA IDE Combined Mode" set that to disabled and see what happens.

 

Make sure to save those settings before exiting or what you have changed will not stick.

 

Those are the settings I see in the manual that should control how the ports are seen on the motherboard and if they are presented as IDE (hence the hdX) or SATA (the sdX).

 

ok. i was looking at mobo manual not bios manual. i see it now. thank you, i will check that in my bios tonight

[Rajahal]

Great work Raj, I love it. I was wondering if anyone ever thought of creating a smaller version of the back blaze box outlined here:

 

http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/

 

I love the fact that you only need to drop the hard drive into the slot standing up and you can easily see the serial numbers on the top of the hard drive. Air flow works really well as well.

 

Now they have room for 45 drives in this unit, which is way too much for me! I'd lover a similar case with 20 odd drives. No 5-3 cages or trays needed! But perhaps with a redundant power supply...

 

Sounds like a project for Queeg and his mad case-modding skills

 

I agree that it is a good design, but you could also build several unRAID servers out of Norco 4220 or 4224 cases and link them all together for a fraction of the cost that they paid.  I see the backblaze project as flashy but not really all that practical (at least on our home-user scale).

[Plugged Up]

By the way, you don't need to transfer files between your Dune player and unRAID, you can stream everything.  You should only need to transfer files between your client computer and your unRAID server.

True.  Great information.  Thanks again.

[randywhe]

was able to get drives recognized as sdx. the option was in the chipset menu like you said. Thanks again for everyones help & patience with me

[loadme]

While taking a closer look at the 10 drive budget built, I wondered, if it is possible to use my old 2x 1GB DDR II / 667Mhz?

Or does this system needs at least DDR3, to work properly?

 

 

10 Drive Budget Box

Mobo: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: Kingston 2GB DDR3 1066

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W

Case: COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP Black SECC / ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

SATA Expansion Card: SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller

Cables: 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M 1 unit of 0.5m Multi-lane Internal (SFF-8087) Serial ATA breakout cable, forward x 1

Hot Swap Drive Bays: SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure x 2

Hard Drives: Green drives (5400 rpm or 5900 rpm), such as WD Green, Samsung EcoGreen, and Seagate LP

Cost: $575 + shipping + cost of hard drives

Capacity: 18 TB

Expandability: Expandable to the 15 Drive Budget Box with replacement of the power supply.

 

[jeff.lebowski]

While taking a closer look at the 10 drive budget built, I wondered, if it is possible to use my old 2x 1GB DDR II / 667Mhz?

Or does this system needs at least DDR3, to work properly?

 

 

10 Drive Budget Box

Mobo: BIOSTAR TA785G3HD

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: Kingston 2GB DDR3 1066

 

 

You might check Biostar's website for this board, then look for a QVL (qualified vendor list) for memory. If your model of RAM is listed, then it's supported. If it's not listed, I bet it will still function, but maybe not without headaches. I made sure to buy RAM that was in the QVL. Just to be sure...

[loadme]

Thanks for the reply. My question was more about the performance issue.

Will 2x1GB DDR2 667 Ram (dual channel) be enough for a system with 10 (and later up to 15 drives).

 

I'll check for compatibility after I know, if I could consider this.

 

And another thing: To expand the 10drive built to 15 drives, you would need to use the IDE connector as well, right?

[Rajahal]

DDR2 RAM will not work in a motherboard that requires DDR3.  However, the fix is simple.  Just use a motherboard that takes DDR2 RAM, such as my current favorite the ASUS M4A785-M.

 

Two GBs of RAM is enough for 10 - 15 drives.  unRAID itself doesn't need much RAM, it is just certain add-ons that do.

 

No, you do not need to use the IDE connector.  Look again at the 15 drive build specs and you'll see that I add in a SIL3132 card that gives you that 15th SATA port.

[Bags]

Thanks again to Rajahal for setting this up. For the record I went with the 5 drive budget box because I thought it was a good place to start at a decent price but would let me upgrade to more drives and a bigger power supply. I did choose a different case because I thought it looked cooler. Also I had to go with the ASUS mobo because the biostar was DOA. Everything is exactly the same. The only question I have now is with the 2.7 AMD Sempron 140 be enough to use air play to re encode on the fly or what ever it does to convert it to the i pad, and handbrake. Not at the same time yet but maybe in the future. Should I unlock the other core? At the time I did not think about using those programs. Is there another processor that I should switch to?

[kizer]

I have the 2.7 AMD Sempron 140 and I have used Air Play to my iPad and I have used Handbrake to convert files from ISO to .avi with ease. Of course they where not at the sametime, but I have done so. I'm only running on one core. I haven't really looked into unlocking the second core as of yet. I am running 4GB Ram, but I've done it before with only 2

 

I've easily streamed (3) 720 videos, (1) SD and copied files at the sametime without a noticeable problem. I really like this processor.

[Bags]

That makes me feel better. On a side note I have not installed hand brake yet but is the que still used in the unraid inviroment?

[Rajahal]

Don't unlock the second core.  You'll waste power and introduce a potential source for unreliability in your server.  If you really want a dual core CPU, then buy one.  However, I'll bet that you'll be happy with the single core.  Keep in mind that unRAID uses so little of the CPU that pretty much the whole thing will be dedicated to Air Play, Handbrake, etc.  So while a single core 2.7 GHz CPU may feel slow in a Windows or Mac environment, with unRAID it will feel much faster.