Raj's Prototype Designs [Discussion Thread]


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In short: price and quality.  I actually have a full review comparing the Supermicro, Icy Dock, and Norco drive cages that I'll release soon.  Sorry for the delay.

 

Chop, Chop. ;)

 

I've personally been waiting for that review. Thanks for your efforts way in advance.

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If messing with the drive cages is too much hassle, then I recommend getting the smallest MicroATX or miniITX motherboard you can find.  In addition to be an all-around awesome board, the Biostar A670G M2+ that I recommend in many of my builds is significantly smaller than most MicroATX boards.  If you went with a miniITX board I guarantee that you wouldn't have any issues with fitting the Supermicro cages, but you will also either limit your expandability or pay a lot more.  There are a few nice Atom-based Supermicro miniITX boards each of which has 6 onboard SATA ports and could support a SASLP card for a max capacity of 14 drives.  The new ASRock E350M1 (AMD Zacate) board looks promising as well.  It would max out at 12 drives, or 13 if you used the rear eSATA port.

 

Raj, it would be really nice if we can include info on S3 and software fan speed control with each board we test.

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Raj, it would be really nice if we can include info on S3 and software fan speed control with each board we test.

 

I agree, but we need some sort of simple way of testing that.  As I understand it, S3, WOL, and fan speed control are complicated issues that vary from motherboard to motherboard.  Maybe it actually isn't as difficult as I think it is, I don't know since I've never tried it.  If there were some simple script that could be run on a motherboard to test compatibility with these things, then I would push it more.  As it is now, I consider these topics to be more of a Level 3 + type of thing.

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Thanks for your help, Rajahal! Few more questions -

 

1. Am I correct that a trayless 4-in-3 (like the new IcyDock)  will have higher drive temps than a 5-in-3 with trays?

2. Is the stock fan that comes with IcyDock MB455SPF quiet enough? Which would you say is a better buy - IcyDock or Norco SS?

3. What is the best (i.e. also cheapest) quiet fan to replace the fan on the Supermicro 5in3?

 

I was looking at trayless 4-in-3 models but they are not cheap either, and would rather get the 5in3 since it gives me an extra drive, if temps are not going to be an issue. I've also decided to increase my budget and switch completely to green drives instead of reusing 7200rpm one's, and thus will need to order some 2TB ones.

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How do the iStarUSA 5in3 cages fit in with the other. Have you tested one Raj?

 

I am pretty sure he has not had a chance to test the iStarUSA cages.

 

I should have a client build coming up in the next couple of weeks that will be using 3 of these iStarUSA cages.  I will see what I can do as far as a write up is concerned once everything is built and I can completely test everything.

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I am pretty sure he has not had a chance to test the iStarUSA cages.

 

I should have a client build coming up in the next couple of weeks that will be using 3 of these iStarUSA cages.  I will see what I can do as far as a write up is concerned once everything is built and I can completely test everything.

 

I look forward to it.

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1. Am I correct that a trayless 4-in-3 (like the new IcyDock)  will have higher drive temps than a 5-in-3 with trays?

 

I don't speak from experience here, but I don't believe that is true.  The 4-in-3 allows for more space between the drives, so I would expect the drives may actually run a bit cooler, or maybe about the same.  I wouldn't worry about cooling with either model.

 

2. Is the stock fan that comes with IcyDock MB455SPF quiet enough? Which would you say is a better buy - IcyDock or Norco SS?

 

The stock fans that come with both units are fine in my opinion.  Neither needs replacement.  I would choose the Norco because it is much cheaper and because I prefer the drive tray design.  It does a better job of protecting the drive when it is outside the cage, and it also has a sliding bit of metal that allows you to cut off airflow to empty drive bays.  The Icy Dock trays are lacking in both these areas.

 

3. What is the best (i.e. also cheapest) quiet fan to replace the fan on the Supermicro 5in3?

 

I haven't done enough fan testing to pretend to be an expert in this area, but when I was doing my research I settled on the GELID Solutions FN-PX09-20 92mm Case Fan as filling the sweet spot between price and specs (CFM and dBA).  Works well, no complaints.

 

I was looking at trayless 4-in-3 models but they are not cheap either, and would rather get the 5in3 since it gives me an extra drive, if temps are not going to be an issue. I've also decided to increase my budget and switch completely to green drives instead of reusing 7200rpm one's, and thus will need to order some 2TB ones.

 

In that case I definitely recommend the Norco units for you.

 

Superorb: prostuff1 is right, I have not yet tested the new iStarUSA cages.  Unless they are on sale for less than $100 shipped or unless you just really like the look of them, I don't see any reason to stray from the Norcos at the moment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

How would you rate the noise level of the components in the 3+ drive micro system? So, that would factor in the Corsair Builder PSU, the 2 Rosewill 120mm fans, and the Sempron fan? I want to know to determine if I'd have to opt for a different PSU or replace the other component fans for something close to silent.

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I am ordering parts for the 5 Drive Budget Box. This is my first unRAID build and I can't wait to take the plunge! I have some questions though:

  • If I only have 3 drives for now, does it make sense to buy the drive cage? Is it tough to add it later?
  • I plan on upgrading to 15 drives at some point, should I go ahead and get the more powerful power supply?
  • Are these parts up to date with the latest tech / consensus or am I all set?

 

Thanks!

 

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I am ordering parts for the 5 Drive Budget Box. This is my first unRAID build and I can't wait to take the plunge! I have some questions though:

  • If I only have 3 drives for now, does it make sense to buy the drive cage? Is it tough to add it later?
  • I plan on upgrading to 15 drives at some point, should I go ahead and get the more powerful power supply?
  • Are these parts up to date with the latest tech / consensus or am I all set?

 

Thanks!

 

 

1. The 5-in-3 cages are not needed right off the bat.  The AZZA case used in the 15 drive build comes with a cage 4-in-3 non hot swap to start.

 

2. Yes, get the bigger PSU to start

 

3. for the most part yes, pieces and parts change so much and so fast it is hard to keep up.

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Sounds good. I was hoping to build it this weekend and the mobo listed won't arrive until at least next week. I know this mobo is not listed in hardware compatibility, however it is available for pickup (in the Philadelphia area):

 

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0349768

 

Would this suit my build?

 

Other options are listed here: http://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.phtml?N=4294966996+4294959612&Ns=P_RetailPrice&Nso=Ascending&sht=Any&prt=NewProduct&

 

Maybe I'll just hold off and wait for it.. nothing like instant gratification though!

 

Probably best to get a mobo with integrated video so you can at least set it up for the first time without juggling video cards.

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I am ordering parts for the 5 Drive Budget Box. This is my first unRAID build and I can't wait to take the plunge! I have some questions though:

  • If I only have 3 drives for now, does it make sense to buy the drive cage? Is it tough to add it later?
  • I plan on upgrading to 15 drives at some point, should I go ahead and get the more powerful power supply?
  • Are these parts up to date with the latest tech / consensus or am I all set?

 

Thanks!

 

That's funny that you mention this because I am doing the same thing. I'm ordering parts one at a time over the next couple of weeks. I've posted a thread about the hardware and my experiences to this point. You can find the thread here.

 

I am also starting with 3 drives and even though I don't need it now, I'm adding 1 hot-swap bay to begin; I'll add the others in time. I'm also going with the larger psu so I don't have to waste it.

 

Good luck with your build!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Raj, couple questions for you now that I am building/testing (5 drive budget box to be later expanded).

 

Concerning the biostar mobo, can you give me a quick rundown of what I should change from the default? (I have enabled ACHI, other than that not sure).

 

I have the following drives (see below), I noticed that the EARS may have some issues however it is brand new, should I still use jumpers? - See http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=9936.0

 

Also, for my Seagate drives is the CC35 update required for the CC95 firmware?

 

I am thinking I may just preclear the cc95 and WD right now to get the process started so I can hopefully finish this tomorrow or Monday.

 

Many, many thanks!

 

 

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Device Model:     WDC WD20EARS-00MVWB0

Serial Number:    WD-WMAZA3206317

Firmware Version: 51.0AB51

User Capacity:    2,000,398,934,016 bytes

Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]

ATA Version is:   8

ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated

Local Time is:    Sat Mar 26 15:30:51 2011 EDT

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.

SMART support is: Enabled

 

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

 

General SMART Values:

Offline data collection status:  (0x80) Offline data collection activity

was never started.

Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.

Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed

without error or no self-test has ever

been run.

Total time to complete Offline

data collection: (36060) seconds.

Offline data collection

capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.

Auto Offline data collection on/off support.

Suspend Offline collection upon new

command.

Offline surface scan supported.

Self-test supported.

Conveyance Self-test supported.

Selective Self-test supported.

SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering

power-saving mode.

Supports SMART auto save timer.

Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.

General Purpose Logging supported.

Short self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   2) minutes.

Extended self-test routine

recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes.

Conveyance self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   5) minutes.

SCT capabilities:       (0x3035) SCT Status supported.

SCT Feature Control supported.

SCT Data Table supported.

 

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE

 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   100   253   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   253   253   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       1166

 4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       10

 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

 9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       4

10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       9

192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       3

193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       32

194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   126   115   000    Old_age   Always       -       24

196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

 

SMART Error Log Version: 1

No Errors Logged

 

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1

No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

 

 

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1

SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS

   1        0        0  Not_testing

   2        0        0  Not_testing

   3        0        0  Not_testing

   4        0        0  Not_testing

   5        0        0  Not_testing

Selective self-test flags (0x0):

 

 

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Device Model:     ST32000542AS

Serial Number:    5XW2D8NK

Firmware Version: CC95

User Capacity:    2,000,398,934,016 bytes

Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]

ATA Version is:   8

ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4

Local Time is:    Sat Mar 26 15:24:14 2011 EDT

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.

SMART support is: Enabled

 

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

 

General SMART Values:

Offline data collection status:  (0x82) Offline data collection activity

was completed without error.

Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.

Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed

without error or no self-test has ever

been run.

Total time to complete Offline

data collection: ( 633) seconds.

Offline data collection

capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.

Auto Offline data collection on/off support.

Suspend Offline collection upon new

command.

Offline surface scan supported.

Self-test supported.

Conveyance Self-test supported.

Selective Self-test supported.

SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering

power-saving mode.

Supports SMART auto save timer.

Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.

General Purpose Logging supported.

Short self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   1) minutes.

Extended self-test routine

recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes.

Conveyance self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   2) minutes.

SCT capabilities:       (0x103f) SCT Status supported.

SCT Feature Control supported.

SCT Data Table supported.

 

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE

 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       48565

 3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       9

 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   253   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       387

 9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       3

10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       9

183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0

187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   074   074   045    Old_age   Always       -       26 (Lifetime Min/Max 26/26)

194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   026   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       26 (0 19 0 0)

195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       48565

197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       273718265774100

241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       5324

 

SMART Error Log Version: 1

No Errors Logged

 

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1

No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

 

 

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1

SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS

   1        0        0  Not_testing

   2        0        0  Not_testing

   3        0        0  Not_testing

   4        0        0  Not_testing

   5        0        0  Not_testing

Selective self-test flags (0x0):

 After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.

If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

 

 

Device Model:     ST32000542AS

Serial Number:    5XW2D8NK

Firmware Version: CC95

User Capacity:    2,000,398,934,016 bytes

Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]

ATA Version is:   8

ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4

Local Time is:    Sat Mar 26 15:24:14 2011 EDT

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.

SMART support is: Enabled

 

 

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Device Model:     ST32000542AS

Serial Number:    6XW25V1Z

Firmware Version: CC34

User Capacity:    2,000,398,934,016 bytes

Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]

ATA Version is:   8

ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4

Local Time is:    Sat Mar 26 15:30:20 2011 EDT

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.

SMART support is: Enabled

 

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

 

General SMART Values:

Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity

was never started.

Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.

Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed

without error or no self-test has ever

been run.

Total time to complete Offline

data collection: ( 633) seconds.

Offline data collection

capabilities: (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.

Auto Offline data collection on/off support.

Suspend Offline collection upon new

command.

No Offline surface scan supported.

Self-test supported.

Conveyance Self-test supported.

Selective Self-test supported.

SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering

power-saving mode.

Supports SMART auto save timer.

Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.

General Purpose Logging supported.

Short self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   1) minutes.

Extended self-test routine

recommended polling time: ( 255) minutes.

Conveyance self-test routine

recommended polling time: (   2) minutes.

SCT capabilities:       (0x103f) SCT Status supported.

SCT Feature Control supported.

SCT Data Table supported.

 

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE

 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       37137

 3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       9

 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

 7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   253   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       84

 9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       3

10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0

12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       9

183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0

187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   077   076   045    Old_age   Always       -       23 (Lifetime Min/Max 23/23)

194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   023   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       23 (0 17 0 0)

195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       37137

197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       169629733355542

241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0

242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3519097707

 

SMART Error Log Version: 1

No Errors Logged

 

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1

No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

 

 

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1

SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS

   1        0        0  Not_testing

   2        0        0  Not_testing

   3        0        0  Not_testing

   4        0        0  Not_testing

   5        0        0  Not_testing

Selective self-test flags (0x0):

 After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.

If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

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Rajahal,

 

I wonder, if it'd be possible to have a non-rackmount version of your 20+ drive reference builds?

 

Honestly not sure about how many people would be interested (I would), though.

 

Any particular advice you'd have for a build like that? (and, yes, I'm reading the enclosure thread as well).

 

I'd probably start with something like 10 drives first, but I'm sick and tired of buying new boxes every time I fill the existing ones.

 

I need something that I can extend as needed and that has a very large maximum drive capacity. UnRaid seems to fit the bill absolutely perfectly. The wealth of choices and my lack of hw expertise (last time I built my own PC was about 10 years ago) is making the decision on what to build a little...interesting :)

 

It also occured to me that you don't have to rack mount the rackmount cases, if you don't want to. How well are those Norcos protected from dust? I'd need to place the case under the desk. It's dustier there than on my desk (or inside a rack).

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I think there's actually lots of interest in 20 drive tower builds.  I've added a few to that section of the prototypes thread (see here.  You'll see that the price difference compared to the rackmount systems is significant ($200+).

 

Correct, you don't have to mount the Norco cases in a rack.  I've run them just sitting on tables, and even on their side to save space (though they have to hang off the edge of a surface because the front bracket is wider than the rest of the case).  The Norco cases aren't particularly well protected from dust, as they have no dust filters.  I haven't had any specific dust problems with them, but I've always kept them off the ground.  If you do need to keep it under your desk, I would suggest putting it on a box or something that keeps it at least a foot off the ground.  The further off the ground the case is, the less dust it will collect.  You could also make your own dust filter pretty easily with a trip to a hardware store...just get some fine mesh, cut it to the right size, and stick it to the front of the server.

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Raj,

 

So I cored one of those cheap Kill-a-watt meters that was listed the other week and start doing some power testing on my Supermicro unRAID and my smaller 6 drive unRAID.

 

My SuperMicro sucks some serious juice as it was designed for a data center environment. I was wondering if you have tested the power on your 22 or 24 drive systems? I'm currently maxed on my SuperMicro @ 15 drives and about 315 watt for parity sync with a 173 watt idle. I'm wondering what you are seeing on those bigger systems?

 

Thank you for all your hard work!

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