Norco 4224 3 fan vs 4 fan for cooling

[joshpond]

Hi all,

 

As the title says, I've got two arctic cooling F8 fans at the rear to replace the screamers.

 

I'm running the stock 80mm fans x4 as the noise isn't an issue. However the hdds are getting toasty. Half filled case with all greens and one black wd drive for cache. During parity checks the greens are at 45 and the black hits 50 and summer is just around the corner.

 

I have a 3x 120mm fan plate but never used it. Are three 120mm going to cool better? As long as the noise is under the stock four I'm happy with that. Maybe noctuas?

 

Ps I've blocked all the gaps already with tape.

 

Thanks Josh

[RockDawg]

I would also like to know this.  I just put together a stock 4224 and the noise isn't an issue for me either.  I wonder if the 120mm fan wall plus expensive fans like Noctua NF-P12 are worth the cost if noise isn't an issue.  My build is so new that I haven't had a chance to check temps yet.

[mikejp]

I don't have the 4224, but...

 

3)Noctua NF-F12s & 2)Arctic Cooling F-8s, keep the 16 WD Caviar Black drives in my 4220, right at 40-42c during parity checks. Under normal everyday use, the drives stay in the low to mid 30s.

 

Noise was an issue for me, as this server sits in a rack 4' behind my head.

With this setup, about the only noise is the sound of rushing air... kinda soothing

I can live with it

 

YMMV

[Johnm]

It really depends on your ambient temps and how hard your work your server...

 

My norco has 24 drives in and they are all around 36-38 during parity rebuilds (except on the hottest of summer days it might get to 40-42) . I have a mix of Hitachi 5400's, Seagate 7200's and 4 samsung 5400 in raid 5 thats almost always spinning in my main box.

 

My Norcos are filled with Noctua NF-P12-1300's They seem to do a better job then the other Noctua's and pulling air though the drive bays.

 

Another option is to get some real screamers and put them on a fan controller. leave them on low except on really hot days and speed them up. You might consider one with a thermal sensor for having it automated.

 

 

[joshpond]

Thanks,

 

I know the final temp will depend on the ambient but if someone here had tested with both t he 4 stock fans and the 3x 120mm fans I assume the ambient would be close. It's more the delta that I'm after.

 

Here Ambient gets to 30-35C in summer. I just don't want to spend the cash getting 3 noctuas as they aren't cheap and finding it doesn't cool better than the stock.

 

Don't really care about the noise of the stock. More than it currently is isn't that nice.

 

Thanks Josh

[Johnm]

Honestly. The change in temps was not that big. The change in noise levels was night and day.

 

I was reluctant on the purchase myself. Then I waited for a sale and got a full set. Now I buy them for all my builds.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RockDawg]

You say the change in temps wasn't that big.  Does that mean there was at least some drop in temps? 

[DoeBoye]

I don't have any records to confirm, but memory tells me that when I switched to the 3x 120mm fan plate, my temps actually may have gone up a tiny bit in my 4224... Noise level, however, dropped substantially.

[joshpond]

Okay,

 

For all those who are interested I spent a few hours in the morning setting up the three fan plate. Note also that I started in the morning, ran parity check for about 15 minutes then had a look at temps. It also did get hotter as the day went on so that may also account for a degree or two.

 

Initially I was running the 4 stock fans vs the 3 120mm x 38mm Scythe Ultra Kaze. These are supposedly 3000 RPM 133cfm 45 dBA fans.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185054&Tpk=scythe%20ultrakaze

Tested stock, then 3 fan plate and then back to stock.

 

Honestly pretty much the same temps. Maybe 1-2 degrees Celsius variation up and down between the two for different drives. The only difference was that the 120mm fans were LOUDER than the stock 80mm fans.

 

Notes:

I have the case about half full with drives and most are in the middle, not the extremities. The 120mm fans may do better with more drives in the corners due to the larger surface area.

I'm going to volt them down and stick the plate on the outside forcing air in and see how that goes.

I'm running green drives with only a black for the cache. It was running a lot hotter as I forgot to open the airflow grate. A few degrees cooler now with it open but still about 5 degrees hotter than green drives.

 

Looks like I'm staying with stock.

 

Josh

[BLKMGK]

Just bought this case. Worth noting was that the rear fans weren't the 80mm screamers with counterrotating fan blades I was expecting. The shipped fans were normal 80mm as we're the midplate fans. Noise is actually not too bad but I'll be considering the upgraded midplate. I do wonder if empty bays slow airflow over full bays. It will be awhile before mine is full :-O

 

I've post tested my hardware only, awaiting adapter cards and cables before loading ESX and testing...

[joshpond]

I do wonder if empty bays slow airflow over full bays. It will be awhile before mine is full :-O

Shouldn't do. There is a grate that can open and close the airflow through the caddy so all the air should be directed through the open caddies with hdds in them.

 

Josh

[pras1011]

My drives are reaching 60c. I have the 3 x 120mm fan wall. I currently using Coolink SWiF2-1200 8,5 dB/A 800 rpm. When I put my hand next to the fan I can't feel anything.

 

What's a good fan?

[mrow]

My drives are reaching 60c. I have the 3 x 120mm fan wall. I currently using Coolink SWiF2-1200 8,5 dB/A 800 rpm. When I put my hand next to the fan I can't feel anything.

 

What's a good fan?

 

I would shut your server down until you can install better fans. 60 degrees is dangerous territory.

 

The problem is likely that your fans do not have enough static pressure to pull air through though the narrow channels in the drive trays.

 

If you want quiet fans that move air and have a high static pressure rating you're going to have to spend the money. Noctua is the best on the market for this. I use three Noctua NF-P12 in my 120mm fan wall and my drive temps never go above 33 degress. Even when my AC is off and the ambient room temp is high.

 

I also replaced the rear 80mm fans with Noctua NF-R8s. The amount of air they move out of the case is amazing for their size and sound level. My Xeon CPU is cooled by a Corsair A50 heatsink with a Noctua NF-P12 attached to it. It may have cost a bit for all the fans but the entire server is whisper quiet.

[garycase]

Definitely shut down if your temps are 60.

 

You either have a blocked airflow path;  or simply don't have enough static pressure to pull air through the drives.  A blocked path simply needs a good blow-out with compressed air.  Inadequate static pressure can happen if the case isn't sealed (i.e. top is loose), of if you have empty drive slots that you haven't blocked off ... so the air is taking easier path and simply bypassing the drives you need to cool.

 

These issues are why I've stopped using rack-mount server cases.  I like the Lian-Li cases that have easily mounted drives in internal cages with large (120mm or 140mm) front fans that blow directly over the drives;  or I'll use CoolerMaster 4-in-3 cages that have 120mm fans blowing directly over the drives.    With these arrangements, the drives tend to stay in the low 30's ... even during parity checks.  [some older 7200rpm units occasionally "touch" 40 during parity checks]

 

But rack-mounts can work fine -- they simply need to be (a) full of drives (or unused slots blocked);  and (b) sealed, so the airflow isn't different than designed;  and © have adequate cfm with the fans ... whether or not you use 120mm fans vs. 80mm fans simply depends on your tolerance for noise => clearly a 120mm fan can provide better airflow than an 80mm fan at the same rpm; or can run slower (and quieter) and match the 80mm fan's performance.    And of course the better fans have lower-noise motors.

 

[c3]

For me noise is fine, no one goes in that room.

 

I swap the (4)80s for (3)120 because I can get more CFM, and I mean way more. Checkout the Delta QFR1212, over 200cfm each.

 

Now wait, dont run off and buy these unless you are ready to do the rest. These fan can draw over 2amps and are pwm, so if you plug them into the motherboard you will be unhappy. Someplace John and I discussed the max power available from FAN headers, and found out that if you load the fan headers, you starve the slots. So, I power all the fans with off motherboard power supplies and only connect the tach and pwm.

 

yellow/black to molex 4 pin for power

green/blue to pwm header

 

I build them one to one, but you can reference http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119248

and the screaming beast http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835706022

 

pras1011, your fan is just doing what it says, operating extremely quietly, but at 800rpm it is not moving enough air.

 

My 4224 came with (4) AFB0812H fans, rated 35cfm for 140cfm total. Your swap to coolink actually reduced airflow from 140cfm to about 105cfm.

[garycase]

Checkout the Delta QFR1212, over 200cfm each.

 

Wow !!  6000 rpm and 64dBA !!!

For anyone who hasn't thought about it, that may not sound all that loud -- normal conversational speech is ~ 60dBA at 1 meter ... but this is more than twice as loud as that.    By comparison, a typical vacuum cleaner at 1 meter is ~ 70dBA.

 

... and you have 3 of these      Clearly you're not kidding when you say "... For me noise is fine."

 

One thing is crystal clear -- you'll NEVER have drive temperature issues !!

 

pras1011 => While you don't need 6,000rpm units, it's absolutely true that 800rpm is WAY too slow.  That's why you can't feel anything when you hold your hand by the fans.    One other thing to confirm, however ==> are you sure you have the fans blowing in the right direction??  [blowing hot air from the chassis into the hard drive compartment would NOT be a good idea !!!]

 

[garycase]

As for what you need -- look for a nice 2000-3000 rpm unit with at least 65CFM of airflow.  You can find these with noise in the 30dBA range ... which is much more tolerable if you're close to the server.

 

If noise isn't as much of an issue, but you don't want the near-vacuum-cleaner effect of the 64dBA units, Delta also makes a very nice 3400rpm unit that comes in at 46dBA and moves 113CFM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835706036

 

But most of us would probably prefer something like this (79CFM at 30dBA noise level):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835129030

[c3]

Yeah, the Deltas are great and available in a wide range. Mine can run 6000rpm, but with pwm never do.

 

Be sure to power them correctly, even the quieter fans might draw too much for motherboard headers.

[pras1011]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

[mrow]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

 

 

Parity check or no, drives should not run anywhere near that temp. As someone else suggested try to seal any openings that aren't needed, i.e. block off drive bays not in use. I went so far as to tape over the open screw holes in the side of the case in between the fan wall and the backplanes just to seal it off as much as possible.

[garycase]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

 

It's really very simple ==> rack-mount server cases aren't designed for quiet environments.  If you have to position the UnRAID server in the cinema room, you should use a different case that allows for good airflow with quiet fans.    Or simply put the server somewhere else and run a bit of Cat-6 

[pras1011]

When I move to a bigger house I will hide the server in a cupboard and I will put the 80mm screamer fans back. What non-rack mount case would you suggest?

[mrow]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

 

It's really very simple ==> rack-mount server cases aren't designed for quiet environments.  If you have to position the UnRAID server in the cinema room, you should use a different case that allows for good airflow with quiet fans.    Or simply put the server somewhere else and run a bit of Cat-6 

 

 

That isn't true. If he outfitted his case with the fans I suggested it will be more than quiet enough for a cinema room, and provide good airflow with quiet fans. Mine is in my living room and you can't hear it from across the room.

[garycase]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

 

It's really very simple ==> rack-mount server cases aren't designed for quiet environments.  If you have to position the UnRAID server in the cinema room, you should use a different case that allows for good airflow with quiet fans.    Or simply put the server somewhere else and run a bit of Cat-6 

 

 

That isn't true. If he outfitted his case with the fans I suggested it will be more than quiet enough for a cinema room, and provide good airflow with quiet fans. Mine is in my living room and you can't hear it from across the room.

 

Quiet is, of course, in the eye (or I should say ear) of the beholder.  It certainly wouldn't hurt to try using the  Noctua NF-P12's you like in a 120mm fan wall before switching cases 

 

If they're quiet enough, and keep the temps okay, then all's well.  But I don't think ANY case with "pullers"  (i.e. fans behind the drives) will keep drives as cool as those designed with 120mm or 140mm fans blowing in FRONT of the drives directly across them.

 

Changing fans is, however, much simpler than swapping cases -- so it's probably worth trying that first.

 

[c3]

I only get these high temps when do a parity check. I have heard that the Hitachi run at these high temps anyway. I have the 4220 and I am using only 16 hdd. Therefore I will block off the rest. I will be getting 3 Noctua NF-P12. The reason why I used the Coolinks is because I need the server to be quiet as I use it in my cinema room.

 

Yes, pretty much any drive can be reported at high temperatures, but at 60 the drive and the room are going to an uncomfortable level. best to add cooling.

 

The NF-P12 will be running at near max speed, not the quietest setting (but quieter than factory), to equal the airflow of the factory fans. Given a temperature controller or script you may not need that much airflow and the fans can back off and quiet down.

 

As mrow says, make sure all the unused passages are blocked, exterior holes covered, and holes in the fan wall itself are sealed, to maximize the flow across the drives.

 

You should have no trouble getting the temperature down with the extra work. many have reported good experience with those fans. I choose to have the extra capacity for the eventual fan failure, which quiet fans don't allow.