nicinabox Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing that I'd like to see, separate from the plugins, is a bigger set of base packages included. I look at: http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins and I see a lot of common packages. If we could get at least the SSL/SSH stuff sorted out for the base install, it would slim this list. Combine that with a limetech hosted repo for PLG files, and we'd be a lot closer to something that we can build a plugin manager on top of. +1 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. Quote Link to comment
ogi Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing that I'd like to see, separate from the plugins, is a bigger set of base packages included. I look at: http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins and I see a lot of common packages. If we could get at least the SSL/SSH stuff sorted out for the base install, it would slim this list. Combine that with a limetech hosted repo for PLG files, and we'd be a lot closer to something that we can build a plugin manager on top of. +1 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. As should the screen plugin. Quote Link to comment
zoggy Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 One thing that I'd like to see, separate from the plugins, is a bigger set of base packages included. I look at: http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php/UnRAID_Plugins and I see a lot of common packages. If we could get at least the SSL/SSH stuff sorted out for the base install, it would slim this list. Combine that with a limetech hosted repo for PLG files, and we'd be a lot closer to something that we can build a plugin manager on top of. +1 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. some may not want ssh enabled to their box for security reasons? Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. some may not want ssh enabled to their box for security reasons? Available != enabled. It should be included on the network service configuration page, with a checkbox to enable it and changeable port field, prefilled with 22. Quote Link to comment
snowboardjoe Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 +1 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. some may not want ssh enabled to their box for security reasons? I'm not sure ssh makes the security any worse than telnet. If their system is available through a firewall, then both ssh and telnet should be secured from the very beginning. At the very least a default install of unRAID needs some kind of documented password--anything is better than having it blank. I suppose the ssh port is attacked more often than telnet, so maybe that's the reasoning? One can also easily configure SSH to not allow login with a blank password (PermitEmptyPasswords no) in the SSH config at install time. That would stop any SSH connections from the Internet until the user sets a real root password. If they never set it, you're not getting in via SSH. Then, again, using SSH you need to make sure SSH keys, known_hosts and other files are saved and restored appropriate to/from the USB drive. It does add a few more headaches to work out of the box and I know we're trying to keep things simple (hence, the use of telnet). Quote Link to comment
WeeboTech Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 SSH should be available out of the box, honestly. some may not want ssh enabled to their box for security reasons? Available != enabled. It should be included on the network service configuration page, with a checkbox to enable it and changeable port field, prefilled with 22. It should at least come with it so you can use rsync over ssh or use scp/sftp to move files off the machine if need be. Or start sshd and access files with rsync over ssh and/or scp/sftp if need be. Telnet is a less secure option and at the current time cannot be disabled without getting on the machine either. Quote Link to comment
argonaut Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 SSH is a must have. Us salty sysadmins have all our scripts use scp, sftp, etc. Encryption gives me warm fuzzies. Telnet has been deprecated for a long time now. It isn't installed on Windows by default any longer. Screen is pretty handy as well. Quote Link to comment
jumperalex Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 and just to pile on what should be considered "baseline" for a robust file server: email notifications UPS support And yes I know, the horse is indeed dead and part of some fine French cuisine:O Quote Link to comment
rick.p Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 and just to pile on what should be considered "baseline" for a robust file server: email notifications UPS support And yes I know, the horse is indeed dead and part of some fine French cuisine:O pre-clear plugin would be tasty... Quote Link to comment
zoggy Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 maybe tom should do a poll of the top plugins to see what everyone has installed.. and then just include the top few to make everyone happy with a clean install / catch up to the other solutions? obviously testing needs to be done so that we dont introduce issue by including anything.. and there is an argument that can be said that tom should just focus on the core of unraid. With that all said, there is then some things to overcome. Something as simple as 'ups support' has been a hit and miss over the years if you look at the SF/Unmenu plugin. I've been running apcupsd-3.14.10-unmenu-package now for just over a month now without any problems. Now to properly do apcupsd you need to have mail installed (otherwise the notifications are a little pointless?) and then also you need the shutdown script (otherwise your system may not shutdown correctly -- a whole other battle to deal with). Thus its not just clear cut. Additionally, on the unmenu package we do a slight 'fix' - hack in delay on restart service (prevent the log rotation process from killing the daemon because the pid wasnt removed quick enough). This was the problem that plagued people from running 3.14.10 in the past. Then installing a plugin that requires configuration introduces more issues for Tom as he needs to provide a way to configure it? Something like the pre-clear script would be a welcome inclusion as it doesn't really require any config. Just needs to be there in case someone wants to use it. Quote Link to comment
mr-hexen Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Something like the pre-clear script would be a welcome inclusion as it doesn't really require any config. Just needs to be there in case someone wants to use it. they key is to get it out of the CLI and into the webGUI though! "New Disk, would you like to preclear it?" "Y/N" Quote Link to comment
rick.p Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Something like the pre-clear script would be a welcome inclusion as it doesn't really require any config. Just needs to be there in case someone wants to use it. in case? Quote Link to comment
snowboardjoe Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Heh, how easy we start to make a tangent off this topic about "essential" packages. Sounds like we need a list of what we think are essential packages to include with unRAID making sure to exclude full applications that are intended as plugins. I realize the complications with including other essential packages (i.e., ssh, ssmtp, and many other tools/utils) means you have a configuration to make for some of them. Maybe on a first pass we can agree on the most highly desired tools/utilities to have included and make them available, but disable them until we can sort out the best ways to configure them and enable them. Just having the tools ready to go saves us some time in getting things setup. Quote Link to comment
zoggy Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Something like the pre-clear script would be a welcome inclusion as it doesn't really require any config. Just needs to be there in case someone wants to use it. they key is to get it out of the CLI and into the webGUI though! "New Disk, would you like to preclear it?" "Y/N" what about when the gui stops working? or if you rather just do it from a command line? i dont think we should lock someone into one environment (CLI or GUI) but give the user the choice. Quote Link to comment
vl1969 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Something like the pre-clear script would be a welcome inclusion as it doesn't really require any config. Just needs to be there in case someone wants to use it. they key is to get it out of the CLI and into the webGUI though! "New Disk, would you like to preclear it?" "Y/N" I don't think you will be locking anybody anywhere the script is still there and you should be able to run it from CLI. but GUI option will run it for you if you like that. what about when the gui stops working? or if you rather just do it from a command line? i dont think we should lock someone into one environment (CLI or GUI) but give the user the choice. Quote Link to comment
nicinabox Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 maybe tom should do a poll of the top plugins to see what everyone has installed.. and then just include the top few to make everyone happy with a clean install / catch up to the other solutions? Was thinking of doing this as a followup to the Boxcar survey. Quote Link to comment
nicinabox Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I decided to go ahead an put this under Plugin Design instead of here in Announcements. Seemed to make more sense. There is a proof of concept addon system for Boxcar. Read more about it here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=28928.0 Quote Link to comment
zoggy Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 on a side note, For discovery purposes, the layout and presentation of 'plugins' like this page would work well for unraid: https://addons.heroku.com/ Show the top apps in whatever section.. based off downloads/installs. RSS feed of updates: https://addons.heroku.com/changelog So with that site in mind, here is how I'd in-vision it for unraid. so if one went to: http://addons.lime-technology.com It would show that page.. allow people that dont have unraid installed to see whats available. Then clicking on the addon would take you to the addon page.. http://addons.lime-technology.com/addon_name_here Which would provide details like synopsis, changelog, etc.. link to forum post/homepage/etc.. A RSS feed of the addon updates would be found: http://addons.lime-technology.com/changelog Now all this works well and provides a centralized place to know where to look.. now what about those actually using Unraid that want to install said plugins? Two scenarios come to mind, installing via gui or cli. GUI (initial install): on the addon page, (loads the existing webpage, that way if updates are needed the user doesnt have to d/l locally to get the update) offer an configure+install button which takes you to a tab/page of things to configure.. upon submission it submits the form and builds a .conf file for said package. (kinda like how unmenu does it). CLI (install on startup/manually): offer up sample .conf that the user would have to copy and update with their values Then the actual install process is just a wrapper to do pre-install steps, install the package + conf file for settings + post install steps. Quote Link to comment
NAS Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 Obviously that is lovely looking and I suspect slick to use. The problem is Tom has already said he doesn't want to host 3rd party addons so we either have to have a 3rd party repo for everything (including official) or we need to be able to handle at least 2 of them. Quote Link to comment
zoggy Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Why dont we just do what unmenu does for packages? It seems to work well enough? Quote Link to comment
sacretagent Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 issue with that is that somebody needs to manage it ... and author the changes .... seen a lot of people coming and going in the last few years so we would need somebody who stays or multiple persons Quote Link to comment
sacretagent Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 by the way .. any of you seen this control panel ? http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=28873.msg258131#new add a central reporistory and some md5 checksums and you have your plugin manager Quote Link to comment
mr-hexen Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 by the way .. any of you seen this control panel ? http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=28873.msg258131#new add a central reporistory and some md5 checksums and you have your plugin manager i like this idea. the plugin manager is, well, a plugin itself! easy to update, change, etc without direct input from Tom. Quote Link to comment
nicinabox Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Why dont we just do what unmenu does for packages? It seems to work well enough? Yes and no. It's sort of there in the sense that you peruse a list and install things you want. UX aside, this is a "centralized" list. We need a decentralized list. In other words, one that isn't centrally managed by one entity. Packages like gcc installed from unmenu break things, but newer gcc packages don't. No idea what it takes to update that list in unMENU, but it's not happening. If the list author goes missing, the whole community is stuck. That's not a good situation to be in. NPM and Rubygems works because their "list" is automated through authors publishing to it. Authors control the list, not a gatekeeper. Quote Link to comment
tallnerd1985 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I am not sure how to say this but can it be possible to implement a repo system with a default one thru LimeTech then if a person wants to add a 3rd party repo of all of the available plugins, they add the repo URL but if that repo gets abandon or something, someone else can create one then switch over to that one? Quote Link to comment
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