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garycase

Seagate 8TB Shingled Drives in UnRAID

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You can tell unraid to ignore that SMART attribute.

 

The only issue is the default setting of monitoring that attribute.

 

Shouldn't have to. 

 

How many people will replace drives because they've seen this error coming up, and not come on to the forums and found this thread?

 

This needs fixed ASAP.

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You can tell unraid to ignore that SMART attribute.

 

The only issue is the default setting of monitoring that attribute.

 

Shouldn't have to. 

 

How many people will replace drives because they've seen this error coming up, and not come on to the forums and found this thread?

 

This needs fixed ASAP.

 

It’s not clear to me how important this attribute is, all my Seagate drives are at 0, if this value starts increasing regularly I’d like to know, but you can disable that attribute notification from the SMART notifications settings.

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You can tell unraid to ignore that SMART attribute.

 

The only issue is the default setting of monitoring that attribute.

 

Shouldn't have to. 

 

How many people will replace drives because they've seen this error coming up, and not come on to the forums and found this thread?

 

This needs fixed ASAP.

There is no problem with UnRaid nor with seagates.  Stating that unRaid has issues with seagate drives is wildly inaccurate.

 

There are a few issues with the current state of smart monitoring and its reporting of which there is a thread with the debates going on and a beta release of updated monitoring program.

 

FUD is not alleviated by statements such as yours

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Has anyone tried harvesting one of these drives from one of the external enclosures?

 

I didn't see anyone anwering this question yet.  I just ordered 5 from amazon, i have precleared one successfully, i am not sure if these smart values are ok though.  Can anyone comment -?

 

Is anyone using the harvested drives yet? I am hesitant to use, but would love to have the increased capacity.

 

================================================================== 1.15b

=                unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdv

=              cycle 1 of 1, partition start on sector 1

= Disk Pre-Clear-Read completed                                DONE

= Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes            DONE

= Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE

= Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward.          DONE

= Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4      DONE

= Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area                        DONE

= Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes                    DONE

= Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state        DONE

= Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning  DONE

= Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries            DONE

= Step 10 of 10 - Verifying if the MBR is cleared.              DONE

= Disk Post-Clear-Read completed                                DONE

Disk Temperature: 26C, Elapsed Time:  59:01:20

========================================================================1.15b

== ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z  Z8408NKD

== Disk /dev/sdv has been successfully precleared

== with a starting sector of 1

============================================================================

** Changed attributes in files: /tmp/smart_start_sdv  /tmp/smart_finish_sdv

                ATTRIBUTE  NEW_VAL OLD_VAL FAILURE_THRESHOLD STATUS      RAW_VALUE

      Raw_Read_Error_Rate =  117    103            6        ok          149191024

          Seek_Error_Rate =    72    100          30        ok          16611905

        Spin_Retry_Count =  100    100          97        near_thresh 0

        End-to-End_Error =  100    100          99        near_thresh 0

  Airflow_Temperature_Cel =    74      77          45        ok          26

      Temperature_Celsius =    26      23            0        ok          26

  Hardware_ECC_Recovered =  117    103            0        ok          149191024

No SMART attributes are FAILING_NOW

0 sectors were pending re-allocation before the start of the preclear.

0 sectors were pending re-allocation after pre-read in cycle 1 of 1.

0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 1 of 1.

0 sectors are pending re-allocation at the end of the preclear,

    the number of sectors pending re-allocation did not change.

0 sectors had been re-allocated before the start of the preclear.

0 sectors are re-allocated at the end of the preclear,

    the number of sectors re-allocated did not change.

root@Tower:/usr/local/emhttp#

 

 

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Post the full SMART report not the preclear report which only lists a few attributes which have changed from before to after the preclear run.

 

However what preclear reports it looks good. Most of the attributes it detetcted changed are manufacturer specific where onky they know the meaning behind the raw value setting, but the normalized values seem to be far from the error values.

 

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Hi Brit,  Thanks for your help.  This caused me to learn a bit more just figuring out how to do the full smart report (which is good )...

 

Here it is.

smartctl 6.2 2013-07-26 r3841 [x86_64-linux-4.1.7-unRAID] (local build)

Copyright © 2002-13, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

 

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===

Device Model:    ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z

Serial Number:    Z8408NKD

LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 086e8af53

Firmware Version: AR15

User Capacity:    8,001,563,222,016 bytes [8.00 TB]

Sector Sizes:    512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical

Rotation Rate:    5980 rpm

Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]

ATA Version is:  ACS-2, ACS-3 T13/2161-D revision 3b

SATA Version is:  SATA 3.1, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)

Local Time is:    Sat Dec  5 09:09:55 2015 PST

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.

SMART support is: Enabled

 

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

 

General SMART Values:

Offline data collection status:  (0x82) Offline data collection activity

was completed without error.

Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.

Self-test execution status:      (  0) The previous self-test routine completed

without error or no self-test has ever

been run.

Total time to complete Offline

data collection: (    0) seconds.

Offline data collection

capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.

Auto Offline data collection on/off support.

Suspend Offline collection upon new

command.

Offline surface scan supported.

Self-test supported.

Conveyance Self-test supported.

Selective Self-test supported.

SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering

power-saving mode.

Supports SMART auto save timer.

Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.

General Purpose Logging supported.

Short self-test routine

recommended polling time: (  1) minutes.

Extended self-test routine

recommended polling time: ( 923) minutes.

Conveyance self-test routine

recommended polling time: (  2) minutes.

SCT capabilities:       (0x30a5) SCT Status supported.

SCT Data Table supported.

 

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG    VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE

  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate    0x000f  111  099  006    Pre-fail  Always      -      37767840

  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003  094  094  000    Pre-fail  Always      -      0

  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032  100  100  020    Old_age  Always      -      6

  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct  0x0033  100  100  010    Pre-fail  Always      -      0

  7 Seek_Error_Rate        0x000f  072  060  030    Pre-fail  Always      -      16773827

  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      63

10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013  100  100  097    Pre-fail  Always      -      0

12 Power_Cycle_Count      0x0032  100  100  020    Old_age  Always      -      5

183 Runtime_Bad_Block      0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032  100  100  099    Old_age  Always      -      0

187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

188 Command_Timeout        0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

189 High_Fly_Writes        0x003a  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022  076  072  045    Old_age  Always      -      24 (Min/Max 20/28)

191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      3

193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      8

194 Temperature_Celsius    0x0022  024  040  000    Old_age  Always      -      24 (0 20 0 0 0)

195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a  111  099  000    Old_age  Always      -      37767840

197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012  100  100  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

198 Offline_Uncorrectable  0x0010  100  100  000    Old_age  Offline      -      0

199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e  200  200  000    Old_age  Always      -      0

240 Head_Flying_Hours      0x0000  100  253  000    Old_age  Offline      -      67473936220223

241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000  100  253  000    Old_age  Offline      -      15628972484

242 Total_LBAs_Read        0x0000  100  253  000    Old_age  Offline      -      32155612333

 

SMART Error Log Version: 1

No Errors Logged

 

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1

No self-tests have been logged.  [To run self-tests, use: smartctl -t]

 

 

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1

SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS

    1        0        0  Not_testing

    2        0        0  Not_testing

    3        0        0  Not_testing

    4        0        0  Not_testing

    5        0        0  Not_testing

Selective self-test flags (0x0):

  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.

If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

 

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Full SMART report looks good to my eyes. You have no Reallocated Sectors Count, Reported Uncorrectable, Current Pending Sectors or Offline Uncorrectable.

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Hey FrozenGamer,

 

I have eight of these drives and I've been watching their health very closely. The only thing that struck me was your Raw Read Error Rate is a little high. As long as the raw errors are correctable then everything is good, but I calculated the Normalized error Rate for my own interest.

 

Normalized Read Error (this is my own metric) = 1000*(Raw Read Error Rate)/(Total LBAs Read)

 

These values range from .15 (best) to 2.45 (worst) for me. Yours was 1.17. I doubt it will predict anything, but I'm keeping an eye on this metric over time.

 

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I'm sorry but that field does NOT work that way.

 

FrozenGamer, your Raw Read Error rate is fine and it has actually IMPROVED after your preclear. The old value was 99, the new value is 111. The error value threshold is when it's at 6.

 

Raw_Read_Error_Rate    0x000f  111  099  006

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Raw Read Error is essentially something you can completely ignore on Seagates.    ALL drives encounter a lot of raw read errors ... but they're all corrected with the ECC info stored with the data.    Most manufacturers only report the normalized values (i.e. ignoring all the corrected errors) ... so, for example, if you look at the SMART report for a WD drive you'll almost always see a zero for this value.    Seagate reports every error -- so EVERY Seagate disk will have a large number of errors shown.    As long as the "Value" column doesn't drop to a low number (as noted above, the threshold is 6), there's nothing to worry about.

 

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To all that have replied, thanks for the informative replies!  Ohlwiler, are you using 8 harvested drives or purchased as internals?

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To all that have replied, thanks for the informative replies!  Ohlwiler, are you using 8 harvested drives or purchased as internals?

 

I'm using all internals. I'm not opposed shucking to externals, but I only do so when I can save 15-20%.

 

I knew my statement about Raw Read Error Rate would prove provocative, which is why I said this:

 

I doubt it will predict anything, but I'm keeping an eye on this metric over time.

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I took a closer look at my Raw Read Error Rate data and discovered it doesn't work that way I thought. Maybe there is some kind of moving average going on, who knows. I will instead focus on the the "Value" field as it relates to the "Worst" and "Threshold".

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Another 2 Seagate 8TB drives successfully through 3 cycles of preclear using Brian's "Faster" preclear script. Thats 6 drives now across what is likely 4 batches and not even a blip to speak of AND performance has been unnoticeable from my WD Red 3TB NAS PMR drives!

 

Just running a FINAL long S.M.A.R.T test and then into deployment mode they go!!

 

New Disk for the Main Server:

 

================================================================== 1.15b
=                unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdj
=               cycle 3 of 3, partition start on sector 1
=
= Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes             DONE
= Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE
= Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward.           DONE
= Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4       DONE
= Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area                         DONE
= Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes                    DONE
= Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state        DONE
= Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning   DONE
= Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries             DONE
= Step 10 of 10 - Verifying if the MBR is cleared.              DONE
= Disk Post-Clear-Read completed                                DONE
Disk Temperature: 42C, Elapsed Time:  140:16:43
========================================================================1.15b
== ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z   Z8408V1C
== Disk /dev/sdj has been successfully precleared
== with a starting sector of 1
============================================================================

<data removed for post>

No SMART attributes are FAILING_NOW
0 sectors were pending re-allocation before the start of the preclear.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after pre-read in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after post-read in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 2 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after post-read in cycle 2 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 3 of 3.
0 sectors are pending re-allocation at the end of the preclear,
    the number of sectors pending re-allocation did not change.
0 sectors had been re-allocated before the start of the preclear.
0 sectors are re-allocated at the end of the preclear,
    the number of sectors re-allocated did not change.

 

New Disk for the Backup Server:

 

================================================================== 1.15b
=                unRAID server Pre-Clear disk /dev/sdf
=               cycle 3 of 3, partition start on sector 1
=
= Step 1 of 10 - Copying zeros to first 2048k bytes             DONE
= Step 2 of 10 - Copying zeros to remainder of disk to clear it DONE
= Step 3 of 10 - Disk is now cleared from MBR onward.           DONE
= Step 4 of 10 - Clearing MBR bytes for partition 2,3 & 4       DONE
= Step 5 of 10 - Clearing MBR code area                         DONE
= Step 6 of 10 - Setting MBR signature bytes                    DONE
= Step 7 of 10 - Setting partition 1 to precleared state        DONE
= Step 8 of 10 - Notifying kernel we changed the partitioning   DONE
= Step 9 of 10 - Creating the /dev/disk/by* entries             DONE
= Step 10 of 10 - Verifying if the MBR is cleared.              DONE
= Disk Post-Clear-Read completed                                DONE
Disk Temperature: 37C, Elapsed Time:  132:48:11
========================================================================1.15b
== ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z   Z8408TSQ
== Disk /dev/sdf has been successfully precleared
== with a starting sector of 1
============================================================================

<data removed for post>

No SMART attributes are FAILING_NOW
0 sectors were pending re-allocation before the start of the preclear.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after pre-read in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after post-read in cycle 1 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 2 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after post-read in cycle 2 of 3.
0 sectors were pending re-allocation after zero of disk in cycle 3 of 3.
0 sectors are pending re-allocation at the end of the preclear,
    the number of sectors pending re-allocation did not change.
0 sectors had been re-allocated before the start of the preclear.
0 sectors are re-allocated at the end of the preclear,
    the number of sectors re-allocated did not change.

 

Attached are the FULL S.M.A.R.T preclear reports with all the S.M.A.R.T attribute data for both disks for those who are interested for comparison with their own reports now or in the future and/or want to look at all the S.M.A.R.T data!

 

Happy Days!  :)8)

S.M.A.R.T_Reports.zip

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dannioj, i didn't read anything in your post on harvested or internal?  Thanks for posting.

 

Sorry buddy. All internal, none harvested. Never harvested a disk from an external HDD enclosure before mainly due to warranty considerations.

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...  All internal, none harvested. Never harvested a disk from an external HDD enclosure before mainly due to warranty considerations.

 

Good choice.  I'm definitely not a believer in harvesting drives.  A potential few $$ saved is definitely not worth losing warranty coverage 'nor taking the chance there may be some firmware limitations [which some manufacturers have done with their external drives].

 

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dannioj, hope all went well with deploying the drives.

 

I have two ST8000AS0002's arriving today (and a USB drive and a 1tb Samsung 850 Pro). Haven't even used UnRAID yet haha. I will aim to use the faster preclear script you mentioned. How do I go about running the longer SMART test? Are there any other checks/tests you'd recommend?

 

I'm selling off 8 4tb drives with plans to replace with a further 4 8tb drives. All in all my array will be 40tb (5x8), a single 8tb parity and the Samsung as a cache

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dannioj, hope all went well with deploying the drives.

 

I have two ST8000AS0002's arriving today (and a USB drive and a 1tb Samsung 850 Pro). Haven't even used UnRAID yet haha. I will aim to use the faster preclear script you mentioned. How do I go about running the longer SMART test? Are there any other checks/tests you'd recommend?

 

I'm selling off 8 4tb drives with plans to replace with a further 4 8tb drives. All in all my array will be 40tb (5x8), a single 8tb parity and the Samsung as a cache

 

Hi KuniD. Firstly welcome to unRAID! You're going to love v6 and remember your best source of information is this community! Loads of Help!

 

Your Plan sounds like a reasonable one! Given you're new to unRAID I know what its like to read through all the available information so Ill try and consolidate and give you as complete an answer as I can and hopefully it gives you some good pointers on preparing your disks ONLY!. I will caveat also by saying this is just my opinion and I am sure (and know of) others who would disagree with me. Also, make sure you follow the individual guides to ensure you / I haven't missed anything!

 

Clearing data disks is a requirement of using unRAID. unRAID will clear the disks for you if you deploy disks into the array uncleared BUT your array (and the GUI) will become unresponsive during that time. I believe when you clear the disks in this way unRAID does 1 pre read, one write of zeros and one post read. I am also not sure if unRAID does or even can execute clears simultaneously which might mean you have to wait for quite a while for your Array of GUI to be accessible again. For an 8TB drive this would take a while anyway.

 

That being said, clearing your disks is a fundamental step to ensuring that your disks are ready for deployment and are suitable for the rigours of deployment in a NAS. So ....

 

Preclear your disks!!

 

One of the benefits of using the preclear script is that the Array and the GUI does not become unresponsive and is usable throughout the process. Others include, being able to check the status of the clear, being able to execute more than 1 clear cycle (which to be fair you WANT to do to ensure that your disks get a real and true workout before you use them) and also if there is something "wrong" with the drives a good preclear workout will undoubtedly expose these issues and allow you to RMA the drive ASAP (and in most cases if you do it quick enough take it back to the vendor you bought it from and skipping the RMA process). With pre clearing your disks you can also execute multiple clears at the same time!

 

The two ways I have used are:

 

- Normal: Download the preclear script (Official - http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=2817.0) OR Faster Unofficial - http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=32564.0) follow the instructions in the README in the instructions OR those I posted earlier in this thread. Note also that there are more switches you can use (e.g. skipping post reads and email notifications etc) BUT I have never used them. Note that if you want to execute multiple clears at the same time (which I have done successfully - and is almost impressive I think if you're clearing such large drives) then you will have to utilise a tool called SCREEN (a tool that allows you to execute commands via telnet and drop and rejoin terminal sessions) and multiple terminal sessions OR

- New: Install the preclear Plugin (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=39985.0). Note: I know the thread suggests that it is in BETA but I believe it to be very stable and would not hesitate to use it again. Download the preclear script (as noted above) you want to use and follow the instructions (note that if you do use the faster one with the plugin you will have to name the script "preclear_disk.sh" anyway) in the thread. Once you're on the GUI it is very intuitive.

 

One of the benefits of using the Plugin over the script from the command line is that you can execute all the actions from the GUI without dropping to the command line. In addition you can watch the status (which appears next to the disk) and know how long you likely have to wait. You can "peek - via the eye icon" at the actual terminal output of the script AND you can execute multiple clears easily without having to use command line tools such as SCREEN or the need to start 2 terminal sessions!

 

Which ever way you decide to go I hope you follow a strict preclear regime for your disks to ensure that they are prepared for deployment in your Array and doing their job, hosting and holding your precious data. For your information I do the following:

 

1. Install the preclear Plugin.

2. Download the "Faster" prelcear script and put it in the dir as instructed by the preclear Plugin instructions (remembering to rename it).

3. Install the disks.

4. Execute a S.M.A.R.T. Short test (See screenshot).

5. Execute the preclear by clicking on the preclear icon on the Main Tab for EACH of your disks using the following settings:

- 3 cycles*;

- enable fast post read.

*note that 3 cycles will take a LONG time (as I note in my results and posts above) but it is worth it. I would also make sure that your server can be uninterrupted during this time. Interrupting a preclear is unfortunately something I have done and it can potentially harm your disks.

6. Live your life while you wait for the preclear cycles to complete. :)

7. Post the results of the preclear AND S.M.A.R.T reports on the Forum if you need help to interpret them.

8. Execute a S.M.A.R.T. Long (Extended) test** (See screenshot).

**note that the S.M.A.R.T Long (Extended) Test will also take a while but no way near as long as a preclear cycle.

9. Follow step 7 again if you need to.

10. Once you're happy, configure your settings (if you have not done so already) and then add them to array slots and start to your Array! The preclear script adds a flag to the drive which indicates to unRAID that a clear has occurred and will NOT attempt to do it again.

 

You asked specifically how to perform a Long (Extended) S.M.A.R.T test. Once the drives are installed and you've booted into unRAID click on the disk name (Which is a link - e.g Disk 1) which will bring up Disk Settings. In the third section down it is called "Self Test" In there you can press the button to execute the test you want to perform and also view the S.M.A.R.T attributes, download and view S.M.A.R.T and test reports etc (As noted see screenshot for help).

 

Like I mentioned at the start of the post, if you have any questions read / post in the forum. If the answer isn't here it isn't anywhere!

 

Good Luck!

Screen_Shot_2016-01-15_at_8_33.31_PM.png.67359ab4952643083a0359d4bb7a7d51.png

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Thanks for the detailed instructions!

 

Would have taken me a lot longer to get my head around setting up the GUI preclear and fast script!

 

I have the plugin and fast script installed and the SMART short tests have completed without error on both the ST8000AS0002's.

 

I went to begin the 3 cycle preclear and I believe its errored as it comes up with the following:

 

/boot/config/plugins/preclear.disk/preclear_disk.sh  -c 3 -f -J /dev/sdc
root@Ultron:/usr/local/emhttp# /boot/config/plugins/preclear.disk/preclear_disk.sh  -c 3 -f -J /dev/sdc
grep: /boot/config/disk.cfg: No such file or directory
/boot/config/plugins/preclear.disk/preclear_disk.sh: line 1298: /boot/config/disk.cfg: No such file or directory

 

I installed the preclear GUI plugin and transferred the fast script to the server. Looking at the boot USB I can't see a 'disk.cfg'.

 

I haven't assigned the disks to the array yet, do I need to do this?

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Ignore last message.

 

Not sure what kicked it into gear ... I assigned the disks, it didn't like that (makes sense), so I un-assigned them then it worked.

 

Now for the long wait.

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Don't think you can preclear a disk once it's been added to the array.

 

Whilst I had briefly assigned the drive I never turned on the array. Still unsure why it didn't allow me to do it before but did after.

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Very informative thread! Can anyone confirm what the speeds are like when replacing a failed drive?

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