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Help designing/picking a setup for unraid, need to upgrade in a bad way :)

live4soccer7

By live4soccer7
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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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I've been scouring online for different builds and what not and figured I would post up here as the hardware and options seem to rapidly change.

 

My goal is to build an expansive system. I have considered the norco 4224 for the hotswap drive bays and large number of bays as well. If I could find a case that has 16-20 hot swappable drive bays then I may go with something like that, but I mostly see ones that are about 12 at most. If I'm missing something, please throw out the option. The 4224 is also a bit spendy compared to some other options.

 

Right now I use a mac mini as the actual plex server/downloader etc... and the unraid setup is only for storage and to feed the mini files. I may may end up getting rid of the mini in the future and doing all tasks on the unraid via dockers/vms, but for now I'm sticking with what I know works. With that said, I'd like something powerful enough to be able to do that and also feed a few tvs and possible music streams at a given time. I should never have more of a load than that, either now or in the future. I don't need way overkill top of line max processors/components for the ATX as long as it will do what I'm looking without choking it up.

 

I know the Norco case can be a little noisy, but I'll deal with that. It isn't a budget build, but no need to throw more at it than necessary with exception of maybe RAM :)

 

Any input/help is greatly appreciated!

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CHBMB Veteran

CHBMB

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bump. Any suggestions/input?

 

Whereabouts are you in the world.  I only ask, because generally most people are in the continental US, but your username isn't suggestive of that..

 

For a system of >20 drives and with hotswap, can't think of any alternatives other than the Norco, but I may be wrong..

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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I'm in the US :)

 

I think the norco is going to be the way to go. As it seems most of the non rack style options are limited at about 12 drives or so.

 

What's the mobo of choice for the unraid server that can support that many drives? I've seen a lot of options out there, but it seems most are from older norco builds.

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CHBMB Veteran

CHBMB

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In the US and a soccer fan...

 

Well, in reality you're a football fan, but you guys have it all the wrong way around.  ::)

 

I can't see you getting a motherboard with 24 sata ports on it.

 

I would get a motherboard with 8 sata ports and then get a couple of add on cards, something based on the IBM M1015 flashed to IT mode.

 

Sorry I can't be more specific.

 

Might help a bit if you tell us what you're planning to use it for other than a s**t ton of storage...

I.E. Virtual Machines? Hardware passthrough?

 

I have an i5 based system and am happy with that.  Handles a couple of Plex streams no problems and can run VMs with passthrough.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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Right now my system is only loaded with unraid and nothing else, so it is 100 storage based. I'm out of sata ports, so I need to upgrade very soon.

 

I like to run the processing things off of a mac mini as it seems the software seems to work better than by using the plugins. I know with dockers and the ability to do VMs I could essentially get rid of the mac mini for processing power and I may do that in future.

 

I mostly just use it for a lot of storage and I like the extensive expandability of the norco case. Files will only continue to get larger, so I figured that I might as well get something that will be able to handle adding lots of drives.

 

Other than running maybe a couple dockers and maybe a vm down the road, that's about all it will do expect store a whole lot of stuff. The only other thing I could imagine would be recording for IP cameras for a CCTV type of security, but that's quite a ways away and likely would just upgrade the mobo/cpu at that point.

 

I suppose the ability for hardware passthrough and being able to runner headless would be nice.

 

Is the IBM M1015 the best way to get Sata port expansion once you exceed onboard sata port count?

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ntrlsur Rookie

ntrlsur

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Everyone seems to like the M1015.  Personally I like the SAS2LP.  Some have had problems with the SAS2LP so YMMV. 

 

For cases check out the Norco 4220.  a bit smaller then the 4224 and gives you 20 bays for hot swap.  For the Motherboard and proc well that is users choice. 

 

I personally like AMD on the storage side but alot of folks here love socket 1150 or 2011 intel sets. 

 

My current build is a BIOSTAR TA970 and AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5GHz with the SAS2LP card.  This gives me 6 on board sata3 and 8 sata3 ports from the card for a total of 14 ports.  Thats how I run it now. 

 

The board has another x16 pcie slot so I can add another 8 port card in the future.  I currently run 3 virtual machines and 2 dockers with the setup and I have not run into any problems. 

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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I might be able to get away by adding the M1015 to my current system and simply having an external bay like the cooler master until I get the specs on my current system. I have an old dell desktop that I'm working off though and not sure if the M1015 would be compatible with the system. It is from approximately the year 2000. I will have to do a little research on this. This would by me some time while not really wasting money on extra components much since I would use the m1015 in the build I'm working on now.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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So the dell system I have not has just one PCI slot that I can utilize for SATA expansion. I already have a card in it that uses expands my sata connections by 3. Is there another PCI card that would give me at least 4 more. A total of 7 for that one PCI slot? If so, then I can simply do that as a band aide to hold me over until I can work out the specs on the new system.

 

I don't think eSata is essential as I'm pretty sure I'm not running it now on the hardware I threw together a couple years back to get this going, so I'm not too concerned with speed on the band aid fix until I get the new system up.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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It looks like I'm actually only using 2 of the 3 slots in my current PCI SATA card, but I think I couldn't get the 3rd one to function IIRC. I suppose I would need a card that would have 6 total SATA ports for the conventional PCI slot on my OLD mobo. Any recommendations on this so I can get things back on track for the new build and not be rushed.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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Can someone give me some input on these two 6 port PCI cards? There aren't many choices for a 6 SATA port PCI.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Adaptec-6-Port-PCI-RAID-CERC-SATA-Controller-Card-XD084-AAR-2610SA-M-/311431040518?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 - this one won't work, it is limited to the size of the array or drives that can be attached.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815287006 - appears this only supports 6 channels/ports at one time, so back not really a good option anymore :(

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LSI-MegaRAID-8-port-RAID-Controller-PCI-X-6-SATA-Cables-Battery-MR-SATA-300-8X-/231630166415?hash=item35ee3bd98f - doesn't support larger than 2TB

 

Does anyone know of a PCI (not pci-e or express, just plain 'ol PCI) Sata Card that can support 6 SATA ports/channels at one time?

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CHBMB Veteran

CHBMB

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None of those are viable options for you.

 

You'll notice the Dell and MegaRAID card have long connectors, these are called PCI-X slots and are not compatible with your motherboard.

 

The vantec card is only a 4 port card.

 

 

EDIT: What motherboard do you have currently?

Gotta call it soccer on here or it'll just confuse all the North Americans ;)

In the US and a soccer fan...

 

 

Only americans call it soccer; all other countries in the world call it football. If he is a soccer fan, surely it's in the US or is american.

 

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boxtor Rookie

boxtor

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I know the Norco case can be a little noisy, but I'll deal with that. It isn't a budget build, but no need to throw more at it than necessary with exception of maybe RAM :)

 

Any input/help is greatly appreciated!

 

You can swap the fans out.  I replaced them with Noctua fans.  There is also an optional fan wall to use 3x 120 mm fans instead of 4x smaller fans.

http://www.ipcdirect.net/120mm-fan-wall-bracket-for-rpc-4224-rpc-4220-rpc-4216-rpc-4116-rpc-4020-rpc-4164/

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00b5 Explorer

00b5

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We need to know more about your current setup. A few things I'm noticing from what you have shared already:

 

  • You seem to currently have some sort of unraid setup pieced together from spare parts/boxes/etc. We need to know more, how many drives, sizes/etc to give you worthwhile suggestions
  • You also seem to have 2 (or more) hdds on a PCI-sata card. PCI cards have a max throughput that barely handles 2 sata-2/3 drives, so you are limiting yourself by using pci (not pci-e) expansion slots
  • You want to get a huge case for lots of hdds/etc. Have you considering (eventually) getting few LARGER hdds, so as to not actually need 24hdds?

 

For $200 you can get:

 

AS Rock H97M Pro4 ($80)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157512

 

Intel Pentium G3250 ($60)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117449

 

8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (lots of options $40)

 

Add a newer PSU if needed, even a case and its probably a major upgrade, and can easily run the dockers for your other use, and free up the mac mini completely.

 

EDIT: Since you are running plex, if you need to transcode to a few devices at once, you can swap out that G3250 for something faster, like an i3/i5/etc. Or you could upgrade, free up your mac as is, and 6 months down the road just swap out the cpu for something faster if you need it.

 

Also, that mb (with the right cpu) should support IMMOU for passing through a videocard to the VM, and it has an extra PCI-E slot that you can add a sata exapander card (like an M1015 or a SAS2LP) for another 8 hdds.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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Thanks for all the replies everyone. I'll fill in some of the gaps as requested.

 

Current Build

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I currently have a dell dimension 4700 that was laying around and wasn't being used, so I built the unraid server out of that about a year or two ago. I'm not too concerned with performance right now, more so of getting more space until I can figure out the next build.

 

I found online the mb model #LGA775 M3918 I didn't see anything on the mobo, but am probably missing it.

 

I currently have 8TB and a 4TB parity with a total of 4 drives. I simply have a cooler master sitting next to the tower with the drives in it.

 

 

 

Future Build:

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For the future build, I'd rather keep adding larger hard drives than replace older drives with larger ones (unless one fails). This way I can get the most out of the purchased hdds.

 

I'd imagine a few dockers and a VM would be the most I'd ever run. I would like to have a cctv recording system using IP cameras down the road and could use the unraid for storage of the old footage for a specific amount of time before it gets purged. That would likely be a while before that setup gets going though.

 

I'm starting to lean toward a high capacity tower vs the norco for the ability to have a filter on some towers to help with dust. What's your guys' take on that thought process?

 

 

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00b5 Explorer

00b5

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You have 4 hdds right now. One is a 4TB parity. So, as you add hdds, lets say you add 4 new hdds, 4TB each (because of your parity size). That still means you are adding 16TB or additional space to the 8TB you currently have (which I assume is 1x4TB, 2x2TB). You are adding 200% more space with just 4 hdds, and you have gone from 8TB of space to 24TB of space. Thats a huge increase.

 

How much space do you think you'll need over the next few years? Do you really need 20+ hdds (you have 4, 16 additional hdds x 4TB = 64TB of additional storage). Thats also a lot of cooling, power, space to house/run all of that.

 

Anyway, let me offer my input based on what you are actually asking, instead of giving you other alternatives:

 

  • You need a new mb/cpu/etc combo. Your are running a dell P4 based system, probably only had 4 sata ports in the first place, and no useable pci-e expansion slots.
    • Get something modern, like a intel haswell based system. An $80 H97 based MB with 6 sata3 ports, and two pci-e slots. Add a pentium G3258 for cheap ($70), and 2x2GB (or 2x4GG) DDR3

    [*]Replace your case with something that will support the amount of hdds you'll think you'll really need, and put a good appropiate psu in it

    • look at cases with enough internal slots to keep you happy for a while (say 6 3.5" slots). Keeps the box nice and neat, easy to cool
    • Also note how many 5.25" bays it has, so you can add 5in3/4in3/etc to easily add more drives. I picked out a case that had 6 internal slots, 2 more for 2.5" hdds, and 3 5.25" for one 5in3 or 4in3
    • Get a haswell rated PSU, single rail, and figure out a happy medium for watts, since too little will be underpowered, and too much is not getting good use of efficiency

    [*]Then, add hdds, and enjoy!

 

That should be a huge improvement on power usage, expandability, support dockers, even a VM. If you want to do any passthrough (IMMOU), then make sure to get a MB/CPU combo that will allow that (an asrock H97m pro4 probably does, but you'd need a newer i5 cpu to go with it). More info on that can be found in the VM forum.

 

No specifics on cases right now, but i'm very happy with the one I got. Enough slots for me, came with 3 120mm fans, and I think after rebate it was only like $35 or something.

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live4soccer7 Enthusiast

live4soccer7

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I think I am going to use this case: http://www.lian-li.com/en/dt_portfolio/pc-d8000/

 

There are a ton of cooling options for the case. While the drives are not "hot-swap", they are very easily removed with the system this case has (not screws holding the drives in) and there is very easy access to the back of the drives in the case. I think I actually like this setup better because I can more easily label the front of the drives with a sticker and then put the front cover on the case and you would never be able to see it. It is a nice and clean case that can fit anywhere without looking out of place. It can hold 20 drives out of the gate and you can add more after that with an expansion bay.

 

If you really wanted to go hot-swap with the case, you can get this: http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g/c273/s677/list/p1/b3/Lian_Li-HDD_Enclosures_Adapters-35_HDD_Hot-Swap-Page1.html

 

Now to outfit this case with hardware! I am forgoing the expansion for my current setup in lieu of making this build happen before I run out of room. I have maybe 30 days to make this happen. I need some help on hardware guys!

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BobPhoenix Proficient

BobPhoenix

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Suggested by 00B5: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157512

 

I can't find if this supports IPMI, does anyone know?

Possible but I doubt it.  Usually it is clearly marked if IPMI is available.  Many times you can guess by the network ports on the board 3 = probably but 1 = probably not. However it could be a shared network port with IPMI and your regular network on the same port.  If no one else knows for sure you can ask the manufacturer or check the manual for the MB it should be listed in that somewhere if IPMI is supported.
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