Windows 10 Upgrade on KVM - Licensing?

[CHBMB]

Now I've migrated my Desktop to Ubuntu from Windows 7, it's occurred to me I could install this on my Unraid machine and upgrade to Windows 10.

 

I've installed Windows 7 on Unraid several times in the past, so no worries regarding that bit, but I'm curious about one thing.  If I lose my VDisk with Windows 10 on it for whatever reason, how does the licensing work if I need to reinstall?

 

Is it best to just keep a copy of the Vdisk somewhere just in case as unlike Windows 7 I won't have a license key....

[JonathanM]

Now I've migrated my Desktop to Ubuntu from Windows 7, it's occurred to me I could install this on my Unraid machine and upgrade to Windows 10.

 

I've installed Windows 7 on Unraid several times in the past, so no worries regarding that bit, but I'm curious about one thing.  If I lose my VDisk with Windows 10 on it for whatever reason, how does the licensing work if I need to reinstall?

 

Is it best to just keep a copy of the Vdisk somewhere just in case as unlike Windows 7 I won't have a license key....

Use this http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html to retrieve your converted key after you upgrade to 10. Theoretically you can then use that key to reinstall 10 clean if necessary.

 

(I have not personally tried this. The intarwebs seem to think it will work though.)

[CHBMB]

Wow, that site is from the 1990s...

 

I'll experiment with that and see if it works.

 

Thanks jonathan

[JonathanM]

Wow, that site is from the 1990s...

 

I'll experiment with that and see if it works.

 

Thanks jonathan

I shouldn't have jumped so quick. Apparently it will give you a generic key that will allow you to reinstall, but activating said install is still at the whims of MS as to whether or not too much hardware has changed compared to the fingerprint linked to your MS account.

 

More googling. http://www.howtogeek.com/226510/how-to-use-your-free-windows-10-license-after-changing-your-pc%E2%80%99s-hardware/

 

Have I said how much I detest MS's W10 free upgrade campaign? Ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

[CHBMB]

It's no massive problem to be honest, more of a nice to have rather than a need to have.  Thanks for the heads up though.

[lionelhutz]

I've been playing with W10 upgrades to see what happens. I've found it seems to activate only one the virtual disk that you are using. Microsoft says that W10 activiation is tied to hardware but the VM's don't seem to work right.

 

I setup one activated W10 VM. Then I created a second identical VM but it would not activate. I can at least somewhat understand this one, but in theory the ID of both VM's should be the same.

 

I setup an activated W10 VM and copied the virtual disk. I created a new VM using the copied virtual disk and when I started it that version of W10 was not activated. I'm not sure why this works since one was a copy of the other.

 

So, I have this feeling that you can upgrade W7 to W10 but if you lose or damage the VM beyond repair you likely can't recreate it without buying W10.

[CHBMB]

I've been playing with W10 upgrades to see what happens. I've found it seems to activate only one the virtual disk that you are using. Microsoft says that W10 activiation is tied to hardware but the VM's don't seem to work right.

 

I setup one activated W10 VM. Then I created a second identical VM but it would not activate. I can at least somewhat understand this one, but in theory the ID of both VM's should be the same.

 

I setup an activated W10 VM and copied the virtual disk. I created a new VM using the copied virtual disk and when I started it that version of W10 was not activated. I'm not sure why this works since one was a copy of the other.

 

So, I have this feeling that you can upgrade W7 to W10 but if you lose or damage the VM beyond repair you likely can't recreate it without buying W10.

 

Screw it then, I'll stick to Ubuntu for a VM.  Can't be bothered with all that messing about.  Linux FTW! 

[SpaceInvaderOne]

I've been playing with W10 upgrades to see what happens. I've found it seems to activate only one the virtual disk that you are using. Microsoft says that W10 activiation is tied to hardware but the VM's don't seem to work right.

 

I setup one activated W10 VM. Then I created a second identical VM but it would not activate. I can at least somewhat understand this one, but in theory the ID of both VM's should be the same.

 

I setup an activated W10 VM and copied the virtual disk. I created a new VM using the copied virtual disk and when I started it that version of W10 was not activated. I'm not sure why this works since one was a copy of the other.

 

So, I have this feeling that you can upgrade W7 to W10 but if you lose or damage the VM beyond repair you likely can't recreate it without buying W10.

 

 

 

I think if you copy the vdisk it will work ....... but you must use the same uuid in the xml, as was in the xml with the machine when it was activated

 

example

 

<domain type='kvm'>
  <name>Windows 10 </name>
  <uuid>92229e2f-9329-5786-c022-3c70e2788b32</uuid>
  <metadata>

 

So when you make a new vm the uuid would be different so you would have to put back in the 92229e2f-9329-5786-c022-3c70e2788b32 from above aswell as replace the vdisk

 

So just keep a note of the uuid and should be fine

[saarg]

I've been playing with W10 upgrades to see what happens. I've found it seems to activate only one the virtual disk that you are using. Microsoft says that W10 activiation is tied to hardware but the VM's don't seem to work right.

 

I setup one activated W10 VM. Then I created a second identical VM but it would not activate. I can at least somewhat understand this one, but in theory the ID of both VM's should be the same.

 

I setup an activated W10 VM and copied the virtual disk. I created a new VM using the copied virtual disk and when I started it that version of W10 was not activated. I'm not sure why this works since one was a copy of the other.

 

So, I have this feeling that you can upgrade W7 to W10 but if you lose or damage the VM beyond repair you likely can't recreate it without buying W10.

I thought it was the uuid that was used, but never really tried it. When you made a copy of the activated VM, was that a copy/paste from the XML?

[SpaceInvaderOne]

Yes it is the uuid, im sure. But the same uuid cant already be defined on unraid.

So you could not just copy the vdisk and use if for a few vms on the same server.

 

Would work though if you had one on one server and another on another. But that would be naughty and microsoft would hate you lol !!!

[goinsnoopin]

I am glad this topic came up.  With the windows 10 free upgrade looming I am not sure what to do.  I am new to using VMs and currently have two running Win7 Pro and an unauthorized Win10 VM (test driving it) both of these VMs were created in 6.1.9 and use the default seabios and i440x that was recommended in 6.1.9.    I just upgraded to Unraid 6.2 RC2 and everything went smooth.  The driver for the upgrade of unraid was to get to a position where I have VMs that have been created in 6.2 with OVMF as that is going to be the default going forward and to be able to leverage the free upgrade to windows 10 as it seems to work better for the kids PC games.  From reading the forums it is my understanding that making a change from seabios to ovmf or i440x to q35 is going to trigger MS authentication issues.  My kids are just getting into PC gaming and at this point I don't have a feel for the best configuration...I get the feeling Win10 is better for gaming and I also get the impression that I better lock down my VM configuration...i.e. number of CPUS, memory etc as that can also create MS authentication issues.

 

I currently have seven (6) Win7 Pro 64 licenses.  The maximum number of windows VMs that I anticipate running is 3.  Any recommendations on how many I should upgrade to Win10 or CPU/memory assignments to give me the most flexibility?

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

Dan

[lionelhutz]

Nice, using the uuid is the key to keeping the activation. I screwed up my W10 install with a bad driver so I deleted it and created a new VM but copied the uuid from the old VM into the xml.  The new W10 VM install came up activated.

 

Dan - I would upgrade them all and record the uuid for each install. Then you can switch some back to W7 installs. In the future, to "upgrade" one of the W7 install to W10 you delete the W7 VM and create a new W10 VM using the same uuid.

 

W10 activation is stored online keyed to the machine, so once the machine has been upgraded and registered at Microsoft you can switch it back and forth between W10 and any other OS as much as you want. A new install of W10 on the machine will be activated as soon as it goes online.

 

In my test example above, the original W10 install was seabios and I used OVMF for the new install and it still activated fine. You can only change the bios by creating a new VM so it's not a huge concern. I have also tried changing the machine type and the number of cores and the activation has stuck so far.

 

[SpaceInvaderOne]

Yes changing the number of cores should make no difference for activation as you are not changing the cpu type/physical cpu

Many motherboards allow you to enable and disable cores aswell.

Changing the cpu from host passthrough to emulated qemu64 however would be more likely to trigger activation.

 

One tip on upgrading from 7 to 10. During the upgrade process put the core count down to 1. Sometimes on a windows 7 vm upgrade can fail when using multi cores for some reason. After upgrade you can put the core count back up

[lionelhutz]

I think I tried changing that too and W10 stays activated.

 

I've got the W7 to W10 upgrade pretty much nailed down.

- Use the Microsoft tool to create a W10 iso.

- Create a VM and install W7. Turn off automatic updates during the install.

- Shut down the VM and change the install iso to the W10 iso.

- Restart and run the W10 install. I've been picking to not keep anything.

 

Once you have the VM created if you make note of the uuid you can delete it and then create a new one using the W10 install iso directly. When creating the VM uncheck the start after creation box and edit the xml after it's created. Paste in the uuid and then start the VM and do the W10 install.

[goinsnoopin]

Do you need to install win 7 first?  I was under the impression that the current win 10 ISO allowed you to enter a win 7 product key.  Here is a reference link from Microsoft:.  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12440/windows-10-activation

 

Thanks for all the info so far!

[JorgeB]

 

 

Do you need to install win 7 first?  I was under the impression that the current win 10 ISO allowed you to enter a win 7 product key.

 

No need to install 7 first.

 

[CHBMB]

 

 

Do you need to install win 7 first?  I was under the impression that the current win 10 ISO allowed you to enter a win 7 product key.

 

No need to install 7 first.

 

johnnie, is that

 

1. "There's no need to install 7 first" or

2  "No, you need to install 7 first"

 

[Squid]

Win 10 won't accept all valid win 7 keys.  EG: It will not accept mine (100% legit) Win 7 Ultimate Key (nor according to the link will it accept Win 7 Enterprise (and since Ultimate is a superset of Enterprise, that's why it won't accept mine)

[JorgeB]

 

 

Do you need to install win 7 first?  I was under the impression that the current win 10 ISO allowed you to enter a win 7 product key.

 

No need to install 7 first.

 

johnnie, is that

 

1. "There's no need to install 7 first" or

2  "No, you need to install 7 first"

 

With the latest win10 iso there's no need to install 7 (or 8 ) first, it will accept your old key.

[lionelhutz]

You're right. Install W10 directly and then record the key and uuid combo for future reference.

[goinsnoopin]

What about the chip set emulation?  I assume this could cause issues with Microsoft activation. 

 

I know i440fx is more mature and Q35 is a more modern design.  I also recall limetech's recommendation was i440fx for Windows VMs

 

What are most people using?

 

Since I have 6 licenses of win7 and only need 3 VMs should I do 3 of each when upgrading to Windows 10 in an attempt to future proof?

[SpaceInvaderOne]

I have also tried changing the machine type and the number of cores and the activation has stuck so far.

 

lionelhutz has tried changing machine type and reports activation is okay when changed

[bungee91]

I have also tried changing the machine type and the number of cores and the activation has stuck so far.

 

lionelhutz has tried changing machine type and reports activation is okay when changed

 

I think this is still questionable, as I recently performed some testing on this very thing (it was not specifically for this, but related).

This is what I know on my main W10 VM activated using i440FX.

Activated status, disable network (thought it'd be a good idea) and shutdown.

Changed to Q35 (was testing for a USB related issue), checked activation "Windows is not activated" can't connect to Microsoft, blah blah (meaning the switch to Q35 flagged it to break the initial activation).

Shutdown, change back to i440FX, re-enable network, "Windows is not activated" still a can't connect displaying.

Try to hit the manual check option, not working.

Reboot, same not activated message.

 

Stop thinking about it, use computer as normal, check back a day or so later "Windows is activated".

 

So the change to Q35 certainly made Windows take notice and kill my initial activation status (this machine has been activated for the last 6 months).

However, would keeping it at Q35 from i440FX eventually lead to an activated status? IDK, however I have my doubts as this is basically a new motherboard to M$ and that almost always flags re-activation.

[fritzdis]

I'd like to create & activate a Windows 10 VM on my current mobo/cpu then move unRAID & the VM to a new mobo/cpu (which won't be delivered until after the free upgrade deadline).  I have some questions about how best to achieve this:

 

[*]Is this possible?  If not, ignore the rest.

[*]Can I use CPU Host Passthrough, or will that cause Windows to require reactivation after I change hardware?

[*]Does it matter that my current CPU does not support VT-d, but my new CPU does?

[*]Will I have to adjust any VM settings when I change hardware?

[*]Any other gotchas I should be aware of?

[garycase]

... I currently have seven (6) Win7 Pro 64 licenses. 

...

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

I presume you know you can do a clean install of Windows 10 using these keys -- but only for the next two days.

If you want a Win 10 VM (or VMs), NOW would be the time to create them.    Just enter the Win 7 Pro key when prompted for the Windows 10 key, and it will automatically install the Pro version (since it's a '7 Pro key) and will activate with no problem.