Never was one to "shop" for HDD much as it was far and few between. Of course that was before I got my HTPC and now building unRAID server.

 

So those that are "Old Hats" at this, what are your opinions?

 

GB/dollar?

 

Do you adjust/weight the GB/$ differently for size differences (< 1TB, 1TB, 1.5TB, 2TB)?

How about for RPM?

or Brands? Which tend to be more reliable? I've usually stuck mainly with WD but that is more HABIT than Knowledge.

 

What price point would you consider "GREAT" deals versus "GOOD" deals versus "Don't need now so will wait longer" deals?

 

Here is a thread to get you started

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7279.0

2TB for $100 is a good deal.

2TB for $75 is a great deal.

 

The 2TB for $100 is only good because they seem to occur frequently (about once a week). I don't consider smaller drives at all because of the cost-per-slot in unRAID is too great to overcome with them. The smaller drives would have to be nearly free for me to consider it, perhaps 1.5TB for $30 shipped.

I prefer 1TB drives only because 2TB drives seem to be unreliable at this time based on user reviews.  The only 2TB drive I have right now is my parity drive.  Thats not to say I won't by them if the deal is good but 1TB just seems a lot more reliable at this time.

A 10% reduction in price is a good deal.  20% or more is a great deal.  

 

Those are amounts that should motivate a typical interested buyer.  

For deals worth buying IMHO (at current time only):

 

1TB -  Less than $60 unless WD Green/Black then $65 or less.

 

1.5TB - Less than $80

 

2TB - Less than $100

 

I like a 7200 RPM and a parity and a low speed drive for storage, but honestly I will take whatever is cheapest. My favorite drive I have currently is my Barracuda XT, but my 2TB WD Greens rock, as do my Samsung 2TB EcoGreen drives. My favorite 1.5TB drives are my 7200RPM Seagates, my favorite 1TB drive is my WD Black.

 

Favorite brands: Most Seagates, WD, Samsung (Even though I am so-so on my 1.5TB of theirs)

 

Least Favorite Brands: Hitachi, 5900RPM Seagates, Maxtor (thank goodness they are gone for good)

I prefer 1TB drives only because 2TB drives seem to be unreliable at this time based on user reviews.  The only 2TB drive I have right now is my parity drive.  Thats not to say I won't by them if the deal is good but 1TB just seems a lot more reliable at this time.

 

Can you point to any data confirming this other than speculation and statistically irrelevant single data points?

 

People were calling 1TB and 1.5TB drives "unreliable" when they first shipped. It all sounds like FUD.

 

Seagate had some major issues with their ST31500341AS drives, but these problems were well documented, reproducible and Seagate issued an unprecedented firmware update.

But that was a firmware issue and not an issue of drive design.

 

Back to the topic... IMO now that the price per GB of 2TB drives is similar to that of 1.5TB drives, there's really no point getting anything but 2TB -- non-drive the cost per port has to be factored in, and that is not insignificant.

I prefer 1TB drives only because 2TB drives seem to be unreliable at this time based on user reviews.  The only 2TB drive I have right now is my parity drive.  Thats not to say I won't by them if the deal is good but 1TB just seems a lot more reliable at this time.

 

Can you point to any data confirming this other than speculation and statistically irrelevant single data points?

 

People were calling 1TB and 1.5TB drives "unreliable" when they first shipped. It all sounds like FUD.

 

Seagate had some major issues with their ST31500341AS drives, but these problems were well documented, reproducible and Seagate issued an unprecedented firmware update.

But that was a firmware issue and not an issue of drive design.

 

Back to the topic... IMO now that the price per GB of 2TB drives is similar to that of 1.5TB drives, there's really no point getting anything but 2TB -- non-drive the cost per port has to be factored in, and that is not insignificant.

 

Ditto on all but the last point.  I'm a Seagate fan because I've had better experience with the Barracuda than others.  Currently the 2TB 7200 Seagate drives aren't yet cheap enough for me and the 5900 rpm drives are not yet stable enough for me.  So that leaves me with 1.5TB 7200 drives (just bought another).

 

My storage plan is for currently buying the 1.5TB 7200.11 drives now.  Then when the 2TB 5900 rpm are stable I'll begin buying them and switch my 7200.11 over to do video encoding duty.  

 

In 1 year people will say that 2TB is too small to bother with and the 1.5TB will be $60 going on sale for $45.  Maybe the 2.5TB 5900rpm will be stable by then.

The other item I factored in is likely the need for entirely new motherboard or controllers for larger than 2TB drives. I don't know how many, if any mfgs will be producing BIOS updates for their older non-EFI boards. This makes the 2TB a bit of a sweet-spot and deters holding out for the larger drives.

Currently the 2TB 7200 Seagate drives aren't yet cheap enough for me and the 5900 rpm drives are not yet stable enough for me.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "stable" ?

I prefer 1TB drives only because 2TB drives seem to be unreliable at this time based on user reviews.  The only 2TB drive I have right now is my parity drive.  Thats not to say I won't by them if the deal is good but 1TB just seems a lot more reliable at this time.

 

Can you point to any data confirming this other than speculation and statistically irrelevant single data points?

 

People were calling 1TB and 1.5TB drives "unreliable" when they first shipped. It all sounds like FUD.

 

Seagate had some major issues with their ST31500341AS drives, but these problems were well documented, reproducible and Seagate issued an unprecedented firmware update.

But that was a firmware issue and not an issue of drive design.

 

Back to the topic... IMO now that the price per GB of 2TB drives is similar to that of 1.5TB drives, there's really no point getting anything but 2TB -- non-drive the cost per port has to be factored in, and that is not insignificant.

 

Well when I look on newegg it seems the 2TB drives have reviews are 5 and the other half is 1.  That is what I'm talking about, you might be right that it is FUD just going by what I see.  1TB drives seem to have much better reviews.  I never said it was fact just going by reviews on newegg since that is where I buy most of my stuff.

Currently the 2TB 7200 Seagate drives aren't yet cheap enough for me and the 5900 rpm drives are not yet stable enough for me.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "stable" ?

 

All my information about the 5900rpm drives is drawn from Newegg, other reviews on the internet or here on this forum.  

My impression from what I have read is that the drives are sensitive to power.  More sensitive than the 7200 rpm drives.  So much so that some buyers experience doa's and others see death in some relatively short period of time.  DOA I can deal with.  Early death reminds me of the DeskStars.  

Ok, yes I'm more likely to have a good psu on my unRAID server than perhaps many of those other typical desktop buyers.  But I don't want that hanging over me.  

Who knows what is causing it.  Maybe vibration or electromagnetic is effecting fluctuations on the pcb traces?  Maybe poorly fitting power connectors.  Whatever...

At some point Seagate will add more capacitors or whatever it takes to reduce the power sensitivity on those drives and then they will be rock solid.  

 

OK, I take it back -- there does seem to be an issue with some Seagate LP drives. They have issued a firmware update (you'd think they'd have learned from the previous debacle?)

 

http://niallbest.com/seagate-2tb-st32000542as-cc35-firmware-upgrade/

 

CC35 firmware: http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=213915&Hilite

 

Mine has CC34, and unless I experience problems, I'm not planning on upgrading it yet.

My impression from what I have read is that the drives are sensitive to power.  

 

And heat. Heat kills them.

 

I have a hackintosh desktop that I always give completely new (to me) kinds of drives a two week trial run. The lack of disk sleeping, hot conditions and heavy use (usually a handbrake drive for a while) is really bad for drives, but it helps me understand better which ones can take those conditions. WD Green drives (1.5 and 2tbs) and my one 1TB Black survived fine. My 7200 RPM Seagates (1TB, 1.5TB and 2TB) survived. Samsung drives survived. One of two 7200RPM Hitachi 2TB drives gave a few smart errors afterwards, but its replacement survived.

 

But my first 1.5TB Seagate 5900 RPM drive? Died (not slow death, but instakill) after a week of breaking in. The 2TB one I got was throw up many smart errors within the time period. I don't know if its replacement could survive the test again, because I put the RMA drive in an enclosure and gave it away to a friend. But I DID get a RMA of the 1.5TB drive, and put it in my HTPC instead. In there, in better conditions mind you, I had smart errors within 3 months.

 

Now, honestly I can see where when given good conditions (like my active cooled Unraid boxen) they might be perfectly great drives. I might give the 1.5TB RMA I get a final shot that way just before I completely pass judgement. But honestly I won't recommend them to people.

 

I mean, on Newegg both the internal 2TB 5900 RPM drive and the external one only have three eggs. Comparable drives usually have a whole extra egg- three egg is usually reserved for drives with a major obvious flaw like bad firmware (like the 1.5TB 7200RPM drives). But honestly, I have a pile of the 1.5TB 7200 RPM drives and after the firmware got fixed it was fine, it is something different going on with the 5900 RPM drives....

We need to be careful about user ratings for hdds. Hard drives are different of a VGA or a processor, users only notice them in case of fail, so there is obviously a tendency to only failures be reported.

OK, I take it back -- there does seem to be an issue with some Seagate LP drives. They have issued a firmware update (you'd think they'd have learned from the previous debacle?)

 

They didn't earn the name FailGates for nothing... 

 

If anything this speaks more about the brand of drive and not the size of the drive. I haven't seen as large of issues on other brand's 1.5TB and 2TB drives.

They didn't earn the name FailGates for nothing... 

That's a new one to me! LOL!

We need to be careful about user ratings for hdds. Hard drives are different of a VGA or a processor, users only notice them in case of fail, so there is obviously a tendency to only failures be reported.

 

I disagree.  Statistically the user reports about various drives carry about the same quality.  Go read the 7200.11 ratings before the firmware fix and after.  That parallel is going on for the 5900 rpm drives.  Once the fix is in the ratings will climb.  Until then...There's just one thing you need to ask yourself...Do you feel lucky...well, do you?

 

There's lots of newness about those drives.  It took many years to perfect 5400rpm and then 7200rpm.  It's a brand new hardware and software.  Making small tweaks to an existing product line is nothing like engineering a new product.  But they will eventually get it right.  I can wait.  Let me just offer my thanks to all you beta testers. 

I use the GB/price ratio and use that to guide my decision.  At the current time, anything over 15 I consider to be a good deal, and anything over 20 is a great deal.  For example:

 

1500 GB/$75 = 20 GB/$  <-- great deal

 

2000 GB/$100 = 20 GB/$  <-- great deal

 

1000 GB/$60 = 16.67 GB/$  <-- good deal, but I would probably wait

 

I will only buy drives from WD, Samsung, and occasionally Seagate.  I think WD and Samsung are the best right now.  I will not buy drives from Hitachi, Fujitsu, or Maxtor.  I pretty much only buy green drives also unless I see a really killer deal on a 7200 rpm drive.

There's one more thing about the 1TB Seagate 7200.12 drives.  They are using higher density platters so they are very fast. 

There's one more thing about the 1TB Seagate 7200.12 drives.  They are using higher density platters so they are very fast. 

 

How fast? Have you executed the dd write test on one?

Want to just say THANKS for everyone's feedback and opinions.

Several excellent points for consideration and has been helpful.

 

Just want to say it is a definite pleasure dealing with an active, helpful community that is very tolerant of us noobs asking the same questions over and over.

I am not an HD expert, but just thought I would chime in here with my experience.  Up until a few months ago my sever consisted of all 1TB Hitachi HD's and I never had a problem with them.  You have to keep in mind that a lot of people who post negative reviews are basing them on bad experiences since most people with good ones don't bother.  I recently upgraded 2 of the drives to 2TB Hitachi's and they are working great as well.  The ones I got were:

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145276

 

I paid $100 for them ($119.99 - $20 rebate) back in May of this year and felt it was great price since these drives are 7200 RPM and that is what I wanted.  Most of the $100 deals seem to be the Green drives at 5400 and 5900 RPM, which are fine as well.  So far the drives have performed great and I plan on replacing all my 1TB drives with 2TB when I need more space.  I will admit I was skeptical about all the bad reviews people were giving Hitachi drives, but so it has been good.  Plus, worst case if one dies I send it back for a new one and the data is not lost since it is a Unraid server.  I thought that was part of the reason we have unraid, so when a drive fails that data can be rebuilt.

 

Just like everything the price will continue to drop and drop on these drives.  Best thing to do is figure out what kinda of drive you want (speed, cache, size, etc.) and keep an eye on the price.  When you see it on sale on Newegg and it a good price grab it.  I have a seen a lot better GB/$ deals on drives smaller then 2TB, but I would rather have less drives in my server and that is why I went after the 2TB ones.

Plus, worst case if one dies I send it back for a new one and the data is not lost since it is a Unraid server.  I thought that was part of the reason we have unraid, so when a drive fails that data can be rebuilt.

 

True, but the longer you run in emulated mode (where a failed disk is being emulated by the parity disk and all the data disks) the greater your chances of losing data if another drive were to fail.  This is why many people keep a spare drive handy so that they can minimize the chance of data loss.  Since hard drive RMAs can often take weeks to be processed, it is best to replace the failed drive ASAP.

 

Best thing to do is figure out what kinda of drive you want (speed, cache, size, etc.) and keep an eye on the price.  When you see it on sale on Newegg and it a good price grab it.  I have a seen a lot better GB/$ deals on drives smaller then 2TB, but I would rather have less drives in my server and that is why I went after the 2TB ones.

 

You make two good points here.  First, that we all have different preferences.  You stated that you prefer 7200 rpm drives.  I on the other hand prefer 5400 rpm drives for their power savings and lower heat production.  If I saw a 2 TB 5400 rpm drive and a 2 TB 7200 rpm drive each on sale for $100 that were otherwise identical , I would consider the 5400 rpm drive to be a better deal.  Again, that's just my preference.

 

The second point is that the number of hard drive slots in your server should be part of the equation when choosing a new drive.  This is the biggest limitation with the simple capacity to price ratio I explained above - it doesn't account for the specifics of your server at all.  For example, I recently upgraded my server to a Norco 4220 case, meaning I now have 20 hard drive slots.  So I'm now willing to use 'small' drives (relatively speaking) such as 1 TB drives.  If I saw a great deal on a 5400 rpm 1 TB drive (something like $50 or less), I would grab it.  However, just a week ago when my server's capacity was 8 drives, I wouldn't have considered purchasing 1 TB drives, 1.5 TB would have been my minimum.

 

(look Queeg, I'm finally coming around )

Honestly, when you need a new drive, any price is good...

 

I mean, now you can get a 2000 GB HD for $100...

 

That's

 

4000 FLAC albums (2.5 cents an album!!)

2000 xvid movies (5 cents a movie!!)

200 DVD ISO's or HD rips (50 cents a movie!!)

40 Full bluray ISOs ($2.50 a movie)

 

I think that ordering a spare is a good idea...