Juano11 Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 Greetings to all, I'm looking for some advice regarding set top boxes. I've got my unRaid box up and running great. I've got room and connections for 20 drives, but only have two (2TB) data drives going right now. I'm going to use the storage for lots of things, but I'm writing here primarily about serving video (and less importantly audio) throughout my ethernet wired home. Currently, we only have one "good" TV. It has a TiVoHD and I have pyTivo running on my unRaid server that is working great sending downloaded video to my TiVo. However, I also want to backup my DVD & Bluray collection to my unRaid and I have not been able to get pyTivo to recognize ISO rips of my discs. Also we'll be adding 2-3 more TVs throughout the house, and I don't want to put TiVos (and the monthly fee) on all of them. I've been perusing Veronica Belmont's Set Top Box Mega List: https://spreadsheets1.google.com/ccc?key=tjY1oj6WVMRfdgjpDyPbBSg&authkey=CMWSqM8P&hl=en&authkey=CMWSqM8P#gid=0 And have come up with a short list of boxes that I think will suit my needs. The primary focus of these boxes will be the ability to stream virtually any downloaded video and DVD/BluRay ISO file from my unRaid box without needing to run additional packages on my unRaid or another program on another network connected computer. I want this box to be able to see and play my videos and ISOs on my unRaid box without additional machinations. Netflix, Pandora, Hulu etc would be nice additions, but are not absolutely necessary since all of the new TVs will be internet connected and will come with most or all of these services (we primarily use Netflix & Pandora). My short list is: Boxee Box ($199) WD TV Live HD ($130) PS3 ($299) This box will primarily be for streaming videos & ISOs from my unRaid. It appears that the WD box will "stream almost anything", but it's been out for a while and, if it was so great, then we'd know more about it. My wife will be using it as well, so a good/easy user interface is pretty important. The Boxee Box was/is my first choice, but it's not clear to me that it will stream my ISOs. I know that this box is not out yet, but has anyone heard clear evidence that it will stream ISOs from an unRaid box (i.e. from a simple attached network storage device)? The nice interface and the nice remote are definite pluses. The PS3 seems that it will stream my downloaded videos, but I'm not sure that it will stream my ISOs. Perhaps PS3 media server running on my unRaid would take care of this, but I'd prefer that I not have to add additional packages to my unRaid. Ideally, I want a box that has wide codec support, will stream DVD & Bluray ISOs, has HDMI, can do 1080p, and does not require me to run a server program on my unRaid box or other attached computer. Yes, I know that a HTPC could do all of this, but less than $300 is hard to do for a HTPC and I need it to have a good/high Wife Acceptance Factor. Many Thanks John Link to comment
bubbaQ Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 The link you posted has a lot of holes/errors w/r/t the Popcorn Hour boxes. I would not limit my choices based on the matrix at that link. I have been quite happy with my PCH streaming from unRAID. Link to comment
pfp Posted October 25, 2010 Share Posted October 25, 2010 The link you posted has a lot of holes/errors w/r/t the Popcorn Hour boxes. I would not limit my choices based on the matrix at that link. I have been quite happy with my PCH streaming from unRAID. Same here. A-200 for me. Link to comment
mbryanr Posted October 26, 2010 Share Posted October 26, 2010 In order of meeting your primary needs of playback of BD ISOs: I would go with the 1. Dune Series Players - Proven to just work. BD with full Menus 2. Boxee - will stream BD ISOs, shown to stream 80mbps on demo, more info here and here, BD-Lite 3. PCH A-200 (BD-Lite) 4. WDTV Live+ (I have this...streaming is so-so). I've had no problems with full BD rips, YMMV, gui leaves much to be desired, but adds Netflix. (WDTV Live Hub adds a hobbled GigE, more media streaming options, internal 2.5" drive) Another good comparison site: http://www.iboum.com/net-media-players.php Edit: btw, I've pre-ordered the Boxee, expecting not to follow the same results as the Pop Flop (Box). Link to comment
neilt0 Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Popcorn Hour. A-200 or C-200. The first builds of the firmware were horrible, but the current build is excellent and plays all 500 Blu-ray rips on my servers. Link to comment
Blofeld Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 I for one am one the waiting list for a Boxee box. I wouldn't mind building an HTPC, but I just like the fact that the Boxee is made for home entertainment - for instance, a well-designed remote. Plus, I don't have to boot, I can just turn it off like any other AV gear, and so on...then again, this is thus in theory, let's see how it fares once it's actually out Link to comment
Juano11 Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 Thanks all for your responses. Since I'd heard such great things about the Popcorn Hour boxes, I was ALL IN for the Popbox and had my credit card burning to buy about 3 of them...thankfully, I waited as it has been quite disappointing. This post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1265799 Leads me to believe that the Boxee Box is, perhaps best for me. I do have some question regrading BD ISOs. Part of this post leads me to believe the BluRays will be supported with full menus, but others have mentioned BD lite. I do not understand the difference between the two. At present, I'd be happy with something that would simply play the movies from ISO, but, if there is something that is/will soon be available that will be able to play a BluRay ISO as though it was looking at the disc, then I'd obviously prefer that. I have zero exposure to the Popcorn Hour boxes. How is the UI? I can't emphasize the importance of the Wife Acceptance Factor enough on this point. I can muddle through with a less than ideal UI, but my wife will not. Since there are a lot of boxes that will do most of what I want, I can't settle for a hard to use box. Thanks Again John Link to comment
jtown Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I briefly tried a Seagate GoFlex TV HD and found it lacking. I've seen a number of people compare it favorably to the Western Digital HD box so keep that in mind when looking at the WD box. My main gripe about the Seagate has to do with navigating within HD videos. The FF/Rewind function of the Seagate just plain sucks. It runs through the video in random leaps of 1 to 30 seconds per second. Very annoying. And it has no way to directly input a specific time so you can't just skip straight to 29:30. All you can do is hit max FF and watch it stutter-stumble in random jumps. It also won't index any non-local material (read: it won't index your unRAID array) so the only way to access your network material is to browse to it. No picking by genre, actor, etc. FWIW, it plays well if all you want to do is play something straight thru without jumping around. It played every format I threw at it without a hitch. Even some really obscure codecs that had me searching for hours to play on my PC. Gotta give them props for that. Played 25mbit 1080 video flawlessly, streaming off my unRAID array. I returned the Seagate after a few days. I have a Boxee Box on order (supposed to be delivered in mid November). I've been playing with the Windows version while I wait. It's got some quirks in the indexing functions but it works most of the time and indexes network drives just fine. I'd like finer control on FF/Rew but at least it's consistent. The remote is really what sold me on the Boxee Box. I've also played with XBMC but it would cost me in the neighborhood of $500 to build the kind of set top box I'd want. Atom D525 with HDMI, optical audio, 4 gigs of RAM, SSD, etc. A decent XBMC box could probably be built for the same price as a Boxee Box if you go with cheaper components. I suggest you try both Boxee and XBMC on your desktop to see if either one fits your needs. The software is free for both programs on several platforms. If one of them works out, you can build your own set top box fairly cheap or, in the case of Boxee, buy the D-Link box. Link to comment
Blofeld Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I returned the Seagate after a few days. I have a Boxee Box on order (supposed to be delivered in mid November). I've been playing with the Windows version while I wait. It's got some quirks in the indexing functions but it works most of the time and indexes network drives just fine. I'd like finer control on FF/Rew but at least it's consistent. The remote is really what sold me on the Boxee Box. I've also played with XBMC but it would cost me in the neighborhood of $500 to build the kind of set top box I'd want. Atom D525 with HDMI, optical audio, 4 gigs of RAM, SSD, etc. A decent XBMC box could probably be built for the same price as a Boxee Box if you go with cheaper components. I suggest you try both Boxee and XBMC on your desktop to see if either one fits your needs. The software is free for both programs on several platforms. If one of them works out, you can build your own set top box fairly cheap or, in the case of Boxee, buy the D-Link box. I second that. I, too, have a Seagate FreeAgent Theater HD thingie, but to be honest, it's pretty dumb. It's like a low-end file browser that happens to play movie files, that's it. Remote stinks, and the whole interface is rather, well, lacking. Boxee on the other hand is a whole new ballgame; the way it "renders" your film library is a sight to behold - and should have a positive impact on the w.a.f. - she can click through movie posters, and the like. Try it on your desktop - and then imagine that interface, but optimized for use with a machine made solely for that purpose, with the remote to match. No less than a small revolution, in my book anyway. Link to comment
neilt0 Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 RE: WAF on PCH, most currently use YAMJ. See my posts here: http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=3024.msg36276#msg36276 and http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7399.msg72218#msg72218 and also see http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=7399.msg72218;topicseen#msg72218 NMJ is PCH's own Networked Media Jukebox solution. It's currently in Beta testing (I'm a tester, so I've used it). It's coming along quite well and should be released soon. For now, I'd recommend YAMJ. NMJ demo: More info and downloadable video: http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=39284 Link to comment
Muck Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 John, What did you end up doing? Did you go with the Boxee? Link to comment
kizer Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Not on your list is XBMC. Its kinda the same as the Boxee Box, but it would require you to actually build a little machine opposed to grabbing something off the shelf. I built one into a little AsRock ION machine and it literally plays everything I throw at it. I'm a HUGE fan if its not obvious. http://www.xbmc.org As for Boxee make sure you read their forums before you throw down your cash. Lots of talk about network problems and recoginizing shares. Worst case download their free software and play with it first before you buy one. Link to comment
jtown Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Just noticed this thread back up near the top. My Boxee Box arrived, was tested, updated (twice), and is now going back from whence it came. The software they delivered is a huge step back from the PC version. I can't remember ever encountering a situation where and software "upgrade" actually reduced functionality and removed so many features. They're listening to feedback and making changes but it'll be a good six months before they get the software back where it was, let alone start making improvements. I'd put up with a lot of the issues if it was in the $50-100 range but, when they're charging double the going rate for their device, I expect a lot. Maybe the next version will be what this product should have been but I'm not going to pay a premium price to be their beta tester. Link to comment
Juano11 Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share Posted November 29, 2010 John, What did you end up doing? Did you go with the Boxee? I'm still holding out on making my decision. I was almost in for the Boxee, but decided to wait until it was released to see what people had to say. I think that the whole PopBox fiasco has me a little gun shy. I'm glad that I did: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4029/the-boxee-box-review As jtown said, it just doesn't seem ready for prime time. Kizer, I would love to build a little XBMC box, but I'm a little concerned about it's usability for my wife. I can put up with a few quirks if I built it and it plays what I throw at it, but, if it is not intuitive, or experiences intermittent hiccups, then the wife just won't use it. Plus, how much did your XBMC box cost? I'm actually hoping to get 3-4 of whatever ends up being best, so I'd like to keep the price in the $200 or below range. I will admit that I haven't checked out the XBMC software...I'll do that. Thanks. Link to comment
kizer Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Xbmc takes a little bit to setup, but once you do it can make for a very slick user interface, but there is some work beyond installing it like grabbing tv, movie artwork and making sure things are stored on the server in a way it likes to see. Some do not like the extra work, but I've got it down to a science at my house because I'm a bit lazy and let my pc do all the work for me with some apps I've found. http://xbmc.org/skins/confluence/ However like you said if you are all about keeping it simple and not trying to get fancy I would look else where honestly. I like a fancy interface, but some will be happy with a click and watch folder file structure. I think my AsRock Ion cost me $360 I think, but that was when it first came out. I'm sure some of the Zotac machines can do the same. I'm not sure if they still sell the Revo's, but some where running it on them too. Link to comment
Juano11 Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks Kizer, Much of what you said confirms my concerns regarding a XBMC Box. I bet that I would love it, but not so sure that my wife would. Plus, it's just a little more expensive than what I was hoping for. I'm leaning toward one of the WD boxes at the moment, but I might just wait a little more to see how things pan out. Of course, I'd like to have this "ideal" box today, but there is really no rush. Truth be told, all I really need is a box that will stream a wide variety of videos from my unRaid box (including DVD & Blu-Ray ISOs). All of our TVs have some other way of accessing NetFlix & Pandora which are the only streaming services that we use. Link to comment
Joe L. Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks Kizer, Much of what you said confirms my concerns regarding a XBMC Box. I bet that I would love it, but not so sure that my wife would. Plus, it's just a little more expensive than what I was hoping for. I'm leaning toward one of the WD boxes at the moment, but I might just wait a little more to see how things pan out. Of course, I'd like to have this "ideal" box today, but there is really no rush. Truth be told, all I really need is a box that will stream a wide variety of videos from my unRaid box (including DVD & Blu-Ray ISOs). All of our TVs have some other way of accessing NetFlix & Pandora which are the only streaming services that we use. My XMBC box is a Acer Revo 1600. It was $199. when I purchased it from Best-Buy. It handles XBMC just fine. I did make one change. I took the 360Gig hard disk out of it (I wanted it for my laptop), and I substituted a $10 4Gig Compact-flash drive with a $8 SATA to CF adapter. This makes it completely silent. Joe L. Link to comment
Muck Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm still sitting on the fence as well - not in any real hurry. I am currently using my Tivo to access my unraid movies. While the interface is lacking, the great Tivo feature is that the movie transfers to the Tivo's internal harddrive for playback. I am leaning towards the PCH C-200 for 2 reasons. 1) I'm quite the unraid newb and Tom has laid out the instructions and 2) I really like Neilt0's setup posted previously in this thread. My question concerning the PCH C-200, if I add an internal drive, can I transfer a movie to the internal drive similar to the way the Tivo works? Link to comment
DoeBoye Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Another vote for XBMC! It takes a bit to set up (Which was part of the fun), but once you have it running how you like, it's a dream. The WAF is EXTREMELY high. I have the Harmony remote mapped to run it, and she has no problem watching whatever content she likes from the UnRaid box without any tech-intervention... Not to mention the wow-factor it gets when she shows it to her friends when they come over . The interface is truly a thing of beauty, and the ability to easily swap out skins (Especially with the most recent update), makes it my Media Player of choice. It did cost a bit more then other options (I believe somewhere in the neighbourhood of $450 with the small ssd drive I use), but you can certainly save some cash by running it with a regular drive (or sd card)... Also, I foolishly paid a premium because I bought the Revo that came with an HD I didn't need, as well as a copy of Windows 7 I don't use. The next one I build will be using the Zotac bare bone (ZBOX I believe) that allows you to select ram and HD yourself ($200 + ram and drive)... Link to comment
Meteorite Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I use XBMC Live on a zotac mini-itx ion motherboard with an atom, and this board uses a laptop adapter so no atx PSU its quiet and is really low on power usages, customizable and good addons before this I used an popcorn hour a110 and later a C200, but really disliked the subtitle handling and menus. Link to comment
neilt0 Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm still sitting on the fence as well - not in any real hurry. I am currently using my Tivo to access my unraid movies. While the interface is lacking, the great Tivo feature is that the movie transfers to the Tivo's internal harddrive for playback. I am leaning towards the PCH C-200 for 2 reasons. 1) I'm quite the unraid newb and Tom has laid out the instructions and 2) I really like Neilt0's setup posted previously in this thread. My question concerning the PCH C-200, if I add an internal drive, can I transfer a movie to the internal drive similar to the way the Tivo works? I'm not sure what you're question is about transferring movies? You can FTP or copy movies over Samba to an internal drive on the C-200. I have 3 internal drives on my C-200 (2x 2.5" + 1x 3.5" hot-swappable). EDIT: And you don't need to transfer the movie, just stream it from your unRAID server. I would recommend the C-200 now, with the current firmware. For me (playing just Blu-ray rips) it "just works". It's a really excellent Blu-ray player. PIP audio still doesn't work, but I think that's the only thing missing right now. I wouldn't have said that a few months ago, when the firmware was not nearly as complete as it is now. Link to comment
Userpaul Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm currently trialling XMBC on my main PC and after a little bit of playing around I am starting to load my films and recorded \tv shows into XMBC with no major issues. Fair bit of work to do sorting the folders /renaming so that they can be scraped properly, but that needed doing anyway I transferred the xmbc folder from my Application Data folder on XP to the equivalent folder on win 7 on my Toshiba T110 notebook after I loaded XMBC and connected it to my TV and everything ran fine. I'm considering purchasing a Acer Revo, I like the idea of removing the hard drive and installing a flash drive although my wife may want to have the option to surf the Internet on the TV. In the UK the Revo are cheapest that come installed with Linux. I'm not sure whether to build my own or buy a HTPC tbh. I think my wife will have no issues with XMBC, these things have to be family friendly!! Link to comment
teamhood Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 I asked for a Boxee Box from the wife for X-Mas this year. At the price point and what my friends have been saying, I'm quite exited to hook it up. I assume this will work with unRAID without issues? Link to comment
Muck Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 I'm still sitting on the fence as well - not in any real hurry. I am currently using my Tivo to access my unraid movies. While the interface is lacking, the great Tivo feature is that the movie transfers to the Tivo's internal harddrive for playback. I am leaning towards the PCH C-200 for 2 reasons. 1) I'm quite the unraid newb and Tom has laid out the instructions and 2) I really like Neilt0's setup posted previously in this thread. My question concerning the PCH C-200, if I add an internal drive, can I transfer a movie to the internal drive similar to the way the Tivo works? I'm not sure what you're question is about transferring movies? You can FTP or copy movies over Samba to an internal drive on the C-200. I have 3 internal drives on my C-200 (2x 2.5" + 1x 3.5" hot-swappable). EDIT: And you don't need to transfer the movie, just stream it from your unRAID server. I would recommend the C-200 now, with the current firmware. For me (playing just Blu-ray rips) it "just works". It's a really excellent Blu-ray player. PIP audio still doesn't work, but I think that's the only thing missing right now. I wouldn't have said that a few months ago, when the firmware was not nearly as complete as it is now. When I select a movie to watch from my Tivo, it begins to transfer the file onto tivo's internal drive for playback. I don't believe you can just stream the movie through the tivo. I was just curious if similarly on the C-200 you could select a movie on the unraid server to transfer to the c-200 harddrive. Link to comment
Giraffeninja Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 @Teamhood yeah it should play back everything fine. It played back all my media fine before I returned it to amazon. The overall idea was great and I really liked the remote, but the software just isn't there yet. I had too many freezes while playing movies. Suddenly dropping my network connection etc. I've been using XBMC and Plex for years now and it just felt like a huge step backwards in reliability and interface. I used a Zotac ION to stream media and it was rock solid. Now I use a few Mac Mini's and I couldn't be happier. Link to comment
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