unRAID Server release 4.5-beta6 available

[Joe L.]

Two problems with cache drive.

 

I installed a cache drive yesterday and added it to the system then added it to my user share. When I started transferring data to the user share I could see the free space on the cache drive going down and I could browse to the drive and see the new data there. However without the cache drive I had been getting 18Mb/s writing to the user share now with the cache drive Iam getting <10Mbs. Something does not seem right here.

Once the cache drive is full, files are written to the normal disk drives, and you go back to the normally slower performance.  Was the cache drive full when you saw the slower performance?

But now I cannot seem to get the mover to work, I noticed this morning that the cache drive was still full, checked the syslog and could see nothing about the mover starting (mover log is on), so I tried manually started the mover and still nothing.

 

Any idea what is going on?

 

Ridley

 

I have attached my syslog.

It all depends on your split level and the rules you have set for user-shares... perhaps you can provide some details.  It might not be able to move anything if the disks are full and there is no free space based on your split-level and include/exclude rules..

 

[travis_s]

For my data point on this, I just disabled my cache drive, and saw a significant improvement in write speeds to the array.  My array is all SATA except the cache drive, which is an older PATA drive.

[WizADSL]

It would be great if we could get a quick update on the status of the next release.  I am especially interested in knowing if we might get a write speed increase versus the current 4.5b6, or any other enhancements or fixes that are anticipated to be included.

[ysss]

Yeah, I feel the same.. I'd rather not try future betas if the support is like this

[eek]

I'm in the same position. Do I purchase an unraid key or redesign my entire network around WHS.

[fireman]

I'm basically at the same point at the moment. I'm about to go over the 3 HD limit of the free version and I'm thinking of either going with the plus or pro key or getting larger HD's so that I don't need a paid key. Seeing the way Tom treats his clients, I'm not sure I'm willing to take a chance right now. Don't get me wrong, I've got great support from forum users - there are great people here - but I'm still questioning Tom's intent here. How come these people - that probably have more important things to do elsewhere - work their ass off to support us while the creator of the software and this site is nowhere to be seen ?

 

Some day, these guys will get tired of supporting us and I will be the first to suffer from it but at the same time, I will understand that they got fed up of pulling someone else's weight...

 

Hat's off to you guys for the terrific job you're doing. I just can't say the same to Tom at this point.

[NAS]

Strong sentiments indeed.

 

This is the 3rd round of this kind in my history with unRAID. Limetech feedback is "boom or bust" which is fine in open source projects but not in a commercial one.

 

In the previous two instances Limetech came back with new features and lots of discussion and all was quickly forgotten. This is the longest drought yet and really undermines a lot of the good P.R. and reputation of unRAID.

 

Selling Linux software is at the best of times extremely hard and the success story's universally surround good support. That is why this forum is so important.

 

unRAID as a product is excellent but I can and do no longer recommend it. How can I in good faith ask clients and friends to pay for something and risk having them hit a problem.?

 

I am certain Limetech will come back and all will be forgiven but there are some bridges that take along time to mend.

 

On a positive note we KNOW that support via email is still strong but that just inst good enough. These are the OFFICIAL unRAID support forums that have been abandoned by Limetech LLC for half a year. Thats not a single support post by the support team for 6 months... monstrous.

 

There are essentially few guys keeping Limetech in business; JoeL, BubbaQ and Webotech to name but a few. I cant speak to their personal motivations but from the other side of the globe their posts feel to me like "Linux guys helping Linux guys". Without them would there be an unRAID this now?... I very doubt it. Imagine 6 months of support request with no real responses, and then imagine someone buying unRAID.

 

I try to choose my words carefully and I freely admit I struggled to not go of on one. I find being personally invested in a commercial Linux product a first for me.

 

If the Linux community is tasked to support unRAID then unRAID should be free.

[fireman]

+1

[SSD]

There are essentially few guys keeping Limetech in business; JoeL, BubbaQ and Webotech.

 

I think comments like this slight quite a few strong contributors here.  RobJ immediately comes to mind, as does Prostuff1.  And there are several others.

 

I agree, however, with the overall sentiment of parsec and others here.  Having Tom abstain from his official support forum and ignore bugs and requests for his input is pretty disappointing.

 

As I said in another thread, paying and prospective users that have product questions or problems that require an official response should start emailing Tom rather than hoping he will respond here.

 

Tom's lack of interest has started to curb my enthusiasm.  While I continue to try to help people with drive and recovery issues, I find myself less eager to make enhancement suggestions or give advice to new and prospective users.

 

[NAS]

Ooops I removed an "etc" when i corrected my typos. No offense was meant by not naming every uber just 3 came to mind right off. Saying I was "slighting" contributors is a tad strong though bjp999 it was quite obvious I wasnt going to name the top 20 helpers... or should that have been 50 so i wasnt slighting the other 30

 

Anyways...

 

What will be really telling is if Limetech LLC doesn't respond officially to this thread in a prompt manner.

[WeeboTech]

I'm basically at the same point at the moment. I'm about to go over the 3 HD limit of the free version and I'm thinking of either going with the plus or pro key or getting larger HD's so that I don't need a paid key. Seeing the way Tom treats his clients, I'm not sure I'm willing to take a chance right now. Don't get me wrong, I've got great support from forum users - there are great people here - but I'm still questioning Tom's intent here. How come these people - that probably have more important things to do elsewhere - work their ass off to support us while the creator of the software and this site is nowhere to be seen ?

 

Some day, these guys will get tired of supporting us and I will be the first to suffer from it but at the same time, I will understand that they got fed up of pulling someone else's weight...

 

Hat's off to you guys for the terrific job you're doing. I just can't say the same to Tom at this point.

 

Tom Mentioned the need to have a thick skin and I understand him at this point. This is no way to speak about your host as if he's not here.

From what I can tell he's been visiting the forum and even in the last few days.

He's responded to people directly who had major issues (and they have posted that Tom responded).

 

We don't know what's going on behind the scene.

However we do know, people are getting keys and getting assistance to keep themselves going.

 

As I said in another thread, paying and prospective users that have product questions or problems that require an official response should start emailing Tom rather than hoping he will respond here.

 

I'm going to agree here. His email is posted in his profile.

It sometimes takes time to respond, but we've received validation that he does respond.

 

 

Tom's lack of interest has started to curb my enthusiasm.  While I continue to try to help people with drive and recovery issues, I find myself less eager to make enhancement suggestions or give advice to new and prospective users.

 

I would also agree that my own enthusiasm has diminished. There are some directions we cannot move much further without some hooks.

 

Let uss consider,  there is more going on behind the scene then we know about.

 

I cant speak to their personal motivations but from the other side of the globe their posts feel to me like "Linux guys helping Linux guys".

 

This is a sentiment of the UNIX community. In the Windows world people make tools and sell them as shareware.

In the UNIX community people make tools and share them to make it better, then sell support.

 

The downside about the silence as of late is people are now going to bypass parts of unRAID in order to support themselves (Present company included) and/or start to sell themselves as support.

[NAS]

Theres a balance to be struck here but heres how i see it...

 

unRAID is a product of Limetech LLC. Toms a good guy, always has been, always will be....

 

But this is not "Toms cool unRAID website, grab it for free or make a donation" its "unRAID a product of Limetech LLC".

 

OK so this is being a bit silly since we all know the company and the man are the same thing but equally it is not semantics. The company route comes with responsibilty and as such we should respond to the company and not the man.

 

Again we all love Tom and his superb creation but my payments went to Limetech.

[fireman]

This is no way to speak about your host as if he's not here.

I don't see where I said something wrong but at the same time, why could I not say what I have on my mind ? It's not my fault if Tom chooses not to show his face in that forum any more. As far as I can tell, I was polite in my previous posts. I only expressed my disappointment. As NAS said earlier, having Tom abstain from his official support forum and ignore bugs and requests for his input is pretty disappointing.

 

If, as was pointed out, he logs in from time to time and he finds my comments inappropriate, hopefully he'll get in touch with me to address the situation. If not, then it means that either he's OK with what I said or he doesn't care. I just hope it's the former.

[WeeboTech]

This is no way to speak about your host as if he's not here.

I don't see where I said something wrong but at the same time, why could I not say what I have on my mind ? It's not my fault if Tom chooses not to show his face in that forum any more. As far as I can tell, I was polite in my previous posts. I only expressed my disappointment. As NAS said earlier, having Tom abstain from his official support forum and ignore bugs and requests for his input is pretty disappointing.

 

If, as was pointed out, he logs in from time to time and he finds my comments inappropriate, hopefully he'll get in touch with me to address the situation. If not, then it means that either he's OK with what I said or he doesn't care. I just hope it's the former.

 

If you have something to say, like you want to upgrade but are concerned about support, then address it directly with him via email. Not in a beta thread.

 

Sorry, I did not respect statements made by a someone who says they are not a customer,  uses the free version, talks about using another free version to avoid paid contribution, gives kudos to a community (supported by the community and author's funds) then finally bashes the author in a beta thread.

 

It's just not cool how some statements are being worded to get a rise out of Tom, when they don't have a picture of the whole story.

[WeeboTech]

Theres a balance to be struck here but heres how i see it...

 

unRAID is a product of Limetech LLC. Toms a good guy, always has been, always will be....

 

But this is not "Toms cool unRAID website, grab it for free or make a donation" its "unRAID a product of Limetech LLC".

 

OK so this is being a bit silly since we all know the company and the man are the same thing but equally it is not semantics. The company route comes with responsibilty and as such we should respond to the company and not the man.

 

Again we all love Tom and his superb creation but my payments went to Limetech.

 

It's a beta thread. If there is a real problem with support. then perhaps that should be addressed directly to Tom or in it's own thread.

[bubbaQ]

Rule 1) Never wait for vaporware.

 

Rule 2) Don't violate rule 1.

 

If it ain't delivered and working ---- it's vaporware.

 

I have no sympathy for the wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread (and elsewhere).  If you chose to wait, that is YOUR choice, not the developer's fault.

 

If you need a NAS or whatever you plan to use unRAID for, and you are waiting for a feature to either be added or fixed before buying unRAID (or any other product) you are a fool.  If you chose to delay purchase, that is YOUR choice.  When a vendor PROMISES you something IN WRITING, or puts a delivery date in a CONTRACT, then that's a different story.... but I don't recall anyone getting such a contract here.

 

If software has a trial or demo version, and you evaluate it, and then buy it, don't complain about something that doesn't work the way you want it to ... you had the opportunity to test it. (other than features not available in the demo).

 

Software is a package deal... if you buy it, and like some features, then you keep it based on the features that WORK.  If a bug or missing feature breaks the product for you, return it.  Otherwise, you are getting what you paid for.  Again, if you are NOT getting what you paid for, RETURN IT.  If you didn't find out that it doesn't work for your application, you should have been on the ball and determined that with the demo.

 

I once rented a truck to help a friend move.  It wouldn't shift higher than 2nd gear.  Had to stay off the highway and use surface streets (it was a 15 mile local move).  Rather than take the truck back, and deal with the hassle of getting another one from somewhere else (it was the last one) we went ahead and kept it.  We got moved over the weekend, but it was a PITA.  Upon returning the truck, I wanted a discount for the problem.  The guy asked "Did you get it all moved?"  I said "yes, but it took longer."  His response was "Well, you got moved... that's what the truck was for.  No credit."  Frankly, I could not fault his logic.

 

 

 

[WizADSL]

Rule 1) Never wait for vaporware.

 

Rule 2) Don't violate rule 1.

 

If it ain't delivered and working ---- it's vaporware.

 

I have no sympathy for the wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread (and elsewhere).  If you chose to wait, that is YOUR choice, not the developer's fault.

 

If you need a NAS or whatever you plan to use unRAID for, and you are waiting for a feature to either be added or fixed before buying unRAID (or any other product) you are a fool.  If you chose to delay purchase, that is YOUR choice.  When a vendor PROMISES you something IN WRITING, or puts a delivery date in a CONTRACT, then that's a different story.... but I don't recall anyone getting such a contract here.

 

If software has a trial or demo version, and you evaluate it, and then buy it, don't complain about something that doesn't work the way you want it to ... you had the opportunity to test it. (other than features not available in the demo).

 

Software is a package deal... if you buy it, and like some features, then you keep it based on the features that WORK.  If a bug or missing feature breaks the product for you, return it.  Otherwise, you are getting what you paid for.  Again, if you are NOT getting what you paid for, RETURN IT.  If you didn't find out that it doesn't work for your application, you should have been on the ball and determined that with the demo.

 

I once rented a truck to help a friend move.  It wouldn't shift higher than 2nd gear.  Had to stay off the highway and use surface streets (it was a 15 mile local move).  Rather than take the truck back, and deal with the hassle of getting another one from somewhere else (it was the last one) we went ahead and kept it.  We got moved over the weekend, but it was a PITA.  Upon returning the truck, I wanted a discount for the problem.  The guy asked "Did you get it all moved?"  I said "yes, but it took longer."  His response was "Well, ytil ou got moved... that's what the truck was for.  No credit."  Frankly, I could not fault his logic.

 

Software is not like a moving truck in the sense that it does not have a predefined start/end.  This is more like we (that registered) bought a product with the reasonable expectation that its development would be on-going.  I would NOT have purchased unraid if the company that created it said "in 6 months we will no longer be developing this product, but community support will still be available", when I purchased my license (January) development was active, the primary developer was interacting with the community publicly and that means a lot to me, and made me feel that this great product would continue to improve.  I do not want to be  critical of Tom and LimeTech, but if the product is still being developed or if it is not, I'd like to know in a definitive way rather than having to hope that it still is.  If Tom has decided to stop developing unraid, wants to take a break, or whatever that's fine, just tell us here on the forum.  Noticing that he may log in from time to time and respond to people on an individual basis in not an indication. I would prefer that he would make a public posting and let us know for sure.  For now I plan to continue to use unraid until such a time may come that USB licenses can no longer be obtained, at which point I would have to find another solution (it seems that would be a LONG way off).  The thing that upsets me about this situation is that unraid is such an innovative product and has a great deal of potential, I genuinely hate that this has come up at all.  I don't think that asking the status of a product from a company should go unanswered for this long (considering the similar questions from others in the past) whether the news is good or bad.  I don't know Tom personally, but I hope that this pause is not the result of any injury or personal crisis and wish him the best.

[bubbaQ]

This is more like we (that registered) bought a product with the reasonable expectation that its development would be on-going.

 

That's your mistake.  You violated rule #1.  There is no such expectation or promise anywhere I can find.  Many product DO have ongoing development, but nowhere is there a GUARANTEE that it will continue.

 

I used to work at a large (Fortune 500) company, that would not buy any production software w/o source-code escrow.  All dongle-protected software had spare dongles in the safe.  Several vendors refused, so we passed up their products. 

 

If you want something (like a guarantee of development) then get it in writing.... otherwise don't complain.

[cj0r]

I don't really think they're so focused on a guarantee of development... all they really want is a status report, some form of a response of what is going on. I don't think that's a lot to ask and only takes 2 minutes to do (if that). Customer service is a huge part of a company... and ignoring the client's requests for any kind of service is rather foolish. I have 3 friends on the verge of purchasing the product but are extremely hesitant now that there hasn't been any activity by the creator (publicly) not to mention the lack of support/development.

 

I didn't want to get involved publicly but I think it has come to that point since every is getting very edgy and requests seem to be being twisted etc.

 

All we want is a status update.

[WizADSL]

This is more like we (that registered) bought a product with the reasonable expectation that its development would be on-going.

 

That's your mistake.  You violated rule #1.  There is no such expectation or promise anywhere I can find.  Many product DO have ongoing development, but nowhere is there a GUARANTEE that it will continue.

 

I used to work at a large (Fortune 500) company, that would not buy any production software w/o source-code escrow.  All dongle-protected software had spare dongles in the safe.  Several vendors refused, so we passed up their products. 

 

If you want something (like a guarantee of development) then get it in writing.... otherwise don't complain.

 

I really don't want this discussion to take on a negative tone.  I am not following any rules, I purchased a product based on MY impression of it (and its support) at the time of the purchase.  I am not a fortune 500 company,  I am not claiming any kind of contractual obligation nor do I expect one.  I am not asking for any guarantees.  I am not making any accusations.  The "expectation of ongoing development" was MINE, I am not quoting it from a page on the site or a manual/wiki etc, and if that was a mistake on my part, I can live with it.  I realize that a product may be discontinued at any time and for any reason.  All I am asking is for is confirmation from the company responsible for the software what the status of current/future development is. I am merely asking a simple question that I would think everyone using this software would like to see answered. Is that not what this forum is for?

[NAS]

It's a beta thread. If there is a real problem with support. then perhaps that should be addressed directly to Tom or in it's own thread.

 

You are probably right however to be fair this thread has the highest probability of being read as it is Limetechs wishes that all conversations to do with development go in the latest "one pile file" beta thread. With a topic that large this really isnt off topic. It would be neater in its own topic but since nothing is happening in this one anyway it doesnt really matter.

 

Rule 1) Never wait for vaporware.

 

Rule 2) Don't violate rule 1.

 

If it ain't delivered and working ---- it's vaporware.

 

I have no sympathy for the wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread (and elsewhere).  If you chose to wait, that is YOUR choice, not the developer's fault.

 

That's an interesting take. Personally I believe a supplier of an Linux OS has a duty of care to provide timely bug fixes and kernel updates as a bare minimum.

 

To ask users to install a beta, test it for you for free, document your problems and then simply ignore them leaves a lot to be desired and it an ineveitable by product that users will get annoyed by conducting what feels like a waste of effort.

 

 

IMO it all boils down to this. There is an expectation that these are the Limetech unRAID support forum. They are listed on the website as the support forums. They are however not the unRAID support forums, they are the unRAID community support forums. This is a fundamental difference that could be fixed simply by moving these forums offsite.

 

[cwr]

it would be nice if tom would just jump on the forum and say howdy and let us know what the status of the next release is, i'm sure that would put everyones mind at ease

[neilt0]

I've worked in the software business for over 20 years, and it's interesting to see how software has evolved over time.

 

In days gone by, you'd buy a box with some discs in, those discs could not change -- the software had to be finished and working. There may be the occasional bug-fix over time, but generally, the software was heavily tested so it would ship once and never change.

I used to run a testing team, and fatal bugs never shipped. We never had a recall and rarely revised a product.

 

When a new version came out, it would be an Excel 5.0, 6.0 or whatever -- a new version with a whole new feature set and was an entirely new product -- it would need to be purchased again, or upgraded.

 

Nowadays, software is much more fluid. With projects like these, there's a frequent change in the product, new features are added, and it's a given that some features (particularly in Beta versions) may be buggy or not work at all.

That's accepted. But, when that happens, there is an expectation that the purchaser will either get those features fixed or removed in shipping (non-Beta versions).

 

What we have now, is a company that is acting like an old software company, but has made statements like a new one!

 

So, we have a Beta version now that has stagnated and not been updated for many months.

 

Personally, I'm in a position where I spent $150 on the software having been told by the company that it would introduce support for 20 drives.

 

I spent the $150, and bought a new PSU to support those drives, a new case, RAID cards etc.

 

Now, I have no idea whether the 20 drive feature will ever work, and I'm not terribly happy about it. This wouldn't matter if the old model was in place -- where no-one knew that more than 16 drives were possible until "unRAID II" shipped, fully working. But we're not in that world.

 

In summary, I expect some kind of communication from the company. It might be a schedule, it might be a new Beta version, it might just be a note saying "We're working on fixing bugs and we may be away from the forums for a little longer". Something!

 

If the answer is "We've given up on bug fixing and the product is final as-is", then that's actually fine.

But I'd like a partial refund based on being mis-sold the product as a 20 drive product.

[eek]

Nowadays, software is much more fluid. With projects like these, there's a frequent change in the product, new features are added, and it's a given that some features (particularly in Beta versions) may be buggy or not work at all.

 

This to a point highlights the problem I have but not my concern as I don't care about new features (I'm not interested in Vapourware but ensuring I have a secure system).

 

Unraid is based on a linux kernel. This kernel is being constantly updated with both enhancements and bug fixes. However unraid seems to have fallen off the train.

 

Even if nothing else was being done on Unraid I would at least expect that Unraid releases were keeping up with linux kernel releases so that if a major security flaw was discovered in Linux I could be sure that my Unraid system would eventually catch up.

 

 

[Cessquill]

This is more like we (that registered) bought a product with the reasonable expectation that its development would be on-going.

Not so from here.  You've all ready suggested it in a later post, but personally, I read what the software did at the time and purchased it BASED SOLELY ON THAT.  If I'm getting extra features in the future for free then great.  If I'm not, then hey - at least I got what I paid for.  I appreciate that the product needs to develop in the future to cater for new hardware/requirements for future customers, but very little has changed on my other network hardware that I bought.  My router has had a couple of firmware updates.  A Buffalo drive maybe one.  Other than that, they all do what they said they would.

 

Of course this does not apply to everyone, but I wanted to chip in my annoyance that I was being misrepresented.  I still recommend it to friends/colleagues based on the sheer amount of existing documentation out there.  If that dries up, then it dries up, and that's a shame; but by then we'll all be streaming HD movies straight from a remote provider anyhow (or other storage requirements will exist)...