New Unraid build focused in low power consumption

[doctorboy]

In the last days, I’ve been studying and reading possible solutions to adopt  for my future NAS/Media Server that I’ll build for my home.

 

Currently, I’ve an old Synology NAS box that is begging for a replacement.

 

The first choice to make, was to consider if building an own system would be a better choice than simply buy a newer Synology box, e.g.DS415play. If so, also chose the respective OS to run in that system.

After some analysis, I’ve chosen that the best approach in term of performance/cost, would be to build a system with unraid OS, even considering some personal lack of experience in doing this kind of stuff.

 

As a result, I’m now evaluating the respective build of the system.

The purpose of the system will be essentially data storage, streaming for HTPCs, backups and some extra apps like bit-torrent. In data storage, I mean by host all the music/moveis/TV shows/photos/etc. Regarding streaming, this system will be the major content source for an HTPC box with Kodi and I should also consider some transcoding for Plex (Emby is also under analysis), possibly 2 machines (max. 3) at the same time.

 

I’m setting up a build, where power consumption is the main driver. I also would like to have something like 5-6 drives. Following, I present some possible hardware choices:

 

OS: Unraid

CPU: Atom C2750 or Atom C2758

Motherboard: Supermicro A1SRi-2758F or ASRock Rack C2750D4I

RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz (ECC or non-ECC, depend of the MB)

Case: Lian Li Q-25 or Fractal Design Node 804 or other Mini-ITX case

Power Supply: Some PSU SFX with 300W

 

Parity Drive: 3TB WD Red

Data Drives: Start with 2x3TB or 2TB WD Red

Cache Drive: In the future, a 2.5'' SSD drive

 

My first question would be if this system is capable for my needs? I’ve been reading a lot about these new Atom CPUs and these boards, and I know that they had a lot of problems in the first days with Unraid systems. But I think now everything was solved and they are a good choice for a low power consumption system. Am I correct?

 

Another doubt is if ECC memory is important or not. I believe it is mandatory, if the Supermicro MB is chosen. And that, leads to another doubt, if Atom is the right choice, which MB is a better choice?

 

The case from Lian Li I think fulfills my needs but other choices can be considered. I believe it is important to have a good match between the case and other components like MB and PSU.

 

For the power supply, I'm thinking something like 300W, and following some recommendations, with the SFX “size”. Is this power the right approach?

 

Sorry for the long text guys. I've tried to be the most objective as possible. 

[mr-hexen]

The Atom is not capable for your needs. It has a passmark around 3,000 and Plex suggests 2,000 PER stream.

[BRiT]

I think you need an i3 at minimum, more likely an i5.

[doctorboy]

Thanks for the quick answers.

 

I was considering until now these Atom CPUs, because if I saw correctly, they have a passmark value around 4000, as we can see in following link http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+C2750+%40+2.40GHz&id=2185.

Since I'm targeting just 2 transcoding stream in Plex (three streams I know it is impossible to handle by this configuration and is a tradeoff that I'm ready to accept), shouldn't this be capable to handle it?

 

Ok, if not, a i3 CPU with low max TDP can be a viable alternative? If yes, which one?

 

It is important that the system has a low power consumption, since electricity is expensive where I live and I plan to have this system power on 24/7 along many time periods.

Thanks again for your advice.

[mr-hexen]

Modern cpu's all idle low. It's just how fast can they go when pushed.

 

Idle watts between a celeron and i7 is close if not the same.

[tdallen]

What you really want is CPU which sips power like a Hybrid at idle (which is most of the time), and screams like a V8 when you need transcoding.  Fortunately, you're describing the modern Haswell line of Intel processors and you have a lot of choices, as others have mentioned.  Yeah, you'd wind up with *slightly* lower overall power usage with a fully integrated Atom system.  But for a little more power usage you can put together an i3, i5, or better system that will do what you want.

 

By the way, you don't want a low TDP chip.  They are laptop chips that are clock limited and designed for situations where heat dissipation is a challenge.  They limit top end power usage at expense of a slower chip - it's like putting a rev limiter on your V8.  And since you specified transcoding as part of your use case - you want CPU power on tap when you need it.

[00b5]

Price out your integrated atom MB's vs a supermicro server board and various i3/i5 haswell cpus.

 

If the price is similar, I also think you'll be happy with the overall power draw, while your system is mostly idle.

 

The only way to be SURE, is to find some examples of real world power consumptions that seem similar to get an idea of how much more one cpu is over the other. The issue here, as mentioned, is that most of the current modern haswell line all idle about the same, its just when you want 100% cpu power how much power draw it'll ramp up to at that point.

[doctorboy]

Thanks a lot guys. I'm starting to get your point.

 

I'm now looking into setup another possible build that is more accordingly my needs, following your recommendations.

For the CPU, I've highlighted two possible choices, one with i3 and other with i5 processor.

My main doubt now is the board. I would like to have, mini-ITX format to fit the Lian Li Q25 case; 5-6 sata ports (5HDD+1 SSD for cache); IPMI would be appreciated; WiFi built in also appreciated. Any recommendations?

 

Current ideas for the new build:

 

OS: Unraid

CPU: i3 4360 or i5 4460

Motherboard: TBD

RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz (ECC or non-ECC, depend of the MB)

Case: Lian Li Q-25 or Fractal Design Node 804 or other Mini-ITX case

Power Supply: Some PSU SFX with 300W

 

Parity Drive: 3TB WD Red

Data Drives: Start with 2x3TB or 2TB WD Red

Cache Drive: In the future, a 2.5'' SSD drive

[JonathanM]

WiFi built in also appreciated.

Why? Unraid has no wireless support that I know of.

[mr-hexen]

This one looks good.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466

 

 

 

[tdallen]

I've always used Asus motherboards and they are worth looking at, but their server class offerings are limited.  Same for Gigabyte.  You can certainly build a server with their consumer boards but you'll either forego server features like IPMI or ECC RAM, or be constrained to the one or two server boards that offer them.  Lots of reasonably priced ITX options, though.  Oh, and my view is that wifi is consumer feature, not something you'd use in a server...

 

ASRock (in particular their Rack series) and Supermicro are better known for ITX server class boards.  The ASRock mr-hexen linked is the one I'd most likely build a server with if were starting a new one today, though there are several nice boards in the Supermicro MBD-X10 series.

 

Some points regarding CPU choice.  The Core i3-4360 you linked is probably cable of supporting your transcoding needs if your source material is already H.264 encoded with a reduced bit rate.  If you want to support transcoding two or more simultaneous full BD rips, though, you'll probably need the CPU upgrade.  On consumer boards the next step up from the i3 is the i5.  On server boards the next step up from the i3 is usually a Xeon, which gives you continued ECC support (something the i5 and i7 don't have).  Some server boards like the ASRock above support both Xeons and i5/7, which is nice.  Advanced virtualization options like vt-d are only available on i5/i7/Xeon, if that matters to you.

[doctorboy]

WiFi built in also appreciated.

Why? Unraid has no wireless support that I know of.

Ok. I was not aware of that limitation. If I want to insert wifi to the box, I can connect a wifi router working as bridge. No problem.

 

This one looks good.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466

 

It supports Xeon, i3 and i5; supports up to 16GB of RAM, which is ok for now; 6x Sata 6Gbps; it looks good, thanks; the only downside, if we can say that, is the obligation of ECC memory.

 

@tdallen, the majority of movies in my library are full BD rips, so after reading your comment I believe that maybe the i3 option may become a bit short for two simultaneous transcoding streams. Are a low end Xeon a better choice that the i5 CPU that I've mentioned? The power consumption in idle on the Xeon family is similar to the i3/i5/i7 CPUs? And how about the GPU? With Xeon, I need some integrated graphics from MotherBoard, if I'm not mistaken. Are this equivalent to the integrated graphics present in i5, HD4600?

[tdallen]

@tdallen, the majority of movies in my library are full BD rips, so after reading your comment I believe that maybe the i3 option may become a bit short for two simultaneous transcoding streams. Are a low end Xeon a better choice that the i5 CPU that I've mentioned? The power consumption in idle on the Xeon family is similar to the i3/i5/i7 CPUs? And how about the GPU? With Xeon, I need some integrated graphics from MotherBoard, if I'm not mistaken. Are this equivalent to the integrated graphics present in i5, HD4600?

 

When you size a CPU for transcoding the "rule of thumb" is 2,000 Passmarks per 1080p stream.  That's more of an average, though - it can take a lot more or less horsepower depending on the source material and capabilities of the player you're transcoding for.  Here's my experience with full BD rips.  My Q9550 is an older chip, but it's a fairly serious 4,000 Passmark workstation level CPU.  It can spike to 100% on all 4 cores transcoding a high bit rate BD rip.  I've never seen it stutter but it's obviously working hard.  The Core i3-4360 is a 5,500 Passmark CPU.  Given my experience, I'd go for more than 5,500 Passmarks if you want to handle a couple of simultaneous BD rips.

 

The idle power consumption on the Xeons are around the same as the Core chips.  The graphics are usually inferior to the Core chips - the expectation is that either you're running a Xeon headless and don't care about graphics, or you're putting a graphics card in to support a gaming VM.  Even if you are going to run headless you do need to consider graphics, though - you'll need them at some point and you're correct that some Xeons support onboard graphics and some don't - you have to sort that out.

 

There are differences between the Xeon and Core chips such as ECC, Hyperthreading, upper binning, unlocked CPUs, L2/3 cache, etc.  Honestly, though, my personal decision would be based on ECC RAM.  If you feel like ECC is a good idea and something you want to spend money on then get a Xeon.  Otherwise you can save some money and get a consumer level board and a Core i5 - just pick the performance level you're looking for via CPUBenchmark.  I think the ASRock that mr-hexen linked works with either ECC or non-ECC RAM - maybe worth checking, though I'm not sure it's worth the premium for just IPMI and dual LAN.

[mr-hexen]

WiFi built in also appreciated.

Why? Unraid has no wireless support that I know of.

Ok. I was not aware of that limitation. If I want to insert wifi to the box, I can connect a wifi router working as bridge. No problem.

 

This one looks good.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157466

 

It supports Xeon, i3 and i5; supports up to 16GB of RAM, which is ok for now; 6x Sata 6Gbps; it looks good, thanks; the only downside, if we can say that, is the obligation of ECC memory.

 

Does NOT require ECC memory. http://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=E3C226D2I#Memory

[mr-hexen]

Plex guidelines recommend 2,000 passmarks for a 1080p/10mbps stream (https://support.plex.tv/hc/en-us/articles/201774043-What-kind-of-CPU-do-I-need-for-my-Server-computer-).

 

For a FULL BD-Rip (25-30mbps) I'd suggest 3,000-4,000 passmarks PER stream to be safe and allow room for other applications.

[garycase]

... the only downside, if we can say that, is the obligation of ECC memory.

 

Downside !! ??    Hardly.    You're building a fault-tolerant server ... why would you not want fault-tolerant memory??

 

ECC is a big PLUS ... NOT a downside.    This board will, in fact, work with either ECC or non-ECC modules ... but I can't imagine using a non-ECC module in it if you're using a CPU with ECC support.

 

If you're not going to use ECC memory, you may as well just buy a desktop class board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157504

 

[doctorboy]

@tdallen, @mr-hexen, @garycase thanks guys, for your clarifications and helpful comments.

 

I believe two different approaches can be followed. One focused in more server features like ECC and IPMI and other more cheap with non-ECC memory but also very capable.

 

System 1

 

OS: Unraid

CPU: Xeon E3 1230v3 - Amazon DE 280€ (or maybe the Xeon E3 1226 v3 which includes integrated graphics)

Motherboard: Asrock E3C226D2I - Amazon ES 220€

RAM: Crucial 16GB DDR3 1600MHz ECC - (2x CT102472BD160B) - Amazon DE 140€

Total: 640€ -> 726$

 

System 2

 

OS: Unraid

CPU: i5 4690 - Amazon ES 225€

Motherboard: ASRock Z97E-ITX/ac - Amazon DE 160€

RAM: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (1600MHz, CL9, 2x 8GB) DDR3 - Amazon DE 96€

Total: 480€ -> 545$

 

Rest of the system

 

Case: Lian Li Q-25 or Fractal Design Node 804 or other Mini-ITX case

Power Supply: Some PSU SFX with 300W

 

The big question now is if the first system is the right choice even considering the price difference. In system one, will I be able to create some VMs with passthrough of the integrated graphics (MB or Xeon)?

The power consumption in idle will be similar on both cases, right? Can you please, with your expertise, predict more or less the values?

[dirtysanchez]

As regards power consumption, my Ivy Bridge i3 based system idles around 30W. Since yours will be Haswell it should idle slightly lower, all other things being equal.

 

Link to my system is in sig.

[tdallen]

The big question now is if the first system is the right choice even considering the price difference. In system one, will I be able to create some VMs with passthrough of the integrated graphics (MB or Xeon)?

The power consumption in idle will be similar on both cases, right? Can you please, with your expertise, predict more or less the values?

Generally you can't pass through integrated graphics - that can only be done with an add-in card.  That doesn't mean that your VMs won't have graphics, it means that the graphics are virtualized and going through an emulation layer.  Perfectly fine for most server type applications but unsuitable for gaming (should you want to combine your server and a gaming rig).

 

My server (see sig) is on older, inefficient hardware and idles at around 84w - I'd expect you do be able to do much better.

 

I think your two choices are well laid out.  I'd go with System 1 because I value ECC RAM in an always-on server, but I think you'd be quite happy with System 2 as well if the lower price point helps.

[garycase]

Agree with tdallen => Option #1 is a better choice for a server with it's ECC support.    In addition, a C226 chipset based board will use slightly less power at idle than a Z97 board (but only a couple watts).

 

I'd expect either of those systems to idle around 30 watts.

 

As for "... Some PSU SFX with 300W ..."  ==>  I'd recommend the excellent Silverstone SFX units ... they have a nice 300w unit that would work well for you.    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097

[doctorboy]

As regards power consumption, my Ivy Bridge i3 based system idles around 30W. Since yours will be Haswell it should idle slightly lower, all other things being equal.

 

Ok, good news. Idle values around 30w is fine for me. I would like not to exceed the 40W threshold.

 

Generally you can't pass through integrated graphics - that can only be done with an add-in card.  That doesn't mean that your VMs won't have graphics, it means that the graphics are virtualized and going through an emulation layer.  Perfectly fine for most server type applications but unsuitable for gaming (should you want to combine your server and a gaming rig).

 

Thanks for the explanation. This topic was something that I was not fully clarified, and now is more clear. I do not have interest to join a gaming machine to the unraid server. My intention is just to have a couple of VM machines running some soft applications.

 

My server (see sig) is on older, inefficient hardware and idles at around 84w - I'd expect you do be able to do much better.

 

I think your two choices are well laid out.  I'd go with System 1 because I value ECC RAM in an always-on server, but I think you'd be quite happy with System 2 as well if the lower price point helps.

 

Agree with tdallen => Option #1 is a better choice for a server with it's ECC support.    In addition, a C226 chipset based board will use slightly less power at idle than a Z97 board (but only a couple watts).

 

Thanks guys. I also prefer the system 1. Lets see if I can manage the price difference. Need to make some extra searches in other web stores (e.g. Ebay).

 

As for "... Some PSU SFX with 300W ..."  ==>  I'd recommend the excellent Silverstone SFX units ... they have a nice 300w unit that would work well for you.    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256097

 

Thanks for the recommendation Gary. I still have a lot of doubts regarding which PSU I should choose. Regarding that one, I have one doubt. Since it is a "80 Plus Bronze" with 300W, when the system is in idle, the PSU can be at 10% load. At this levels, shouldn't I go with something like "80 Plus Gold"?

[garycase]

... Thanks for the recommendation Gary. I still have a lot of doubts regarding which PSU I should choose. Regarding that one, I have one doubt. Since it is a "80 Plus Bronze" with 300W, when the system is in idle, the PSU can be at 10% load. At this levels, shouldn't I go with something like "80 Plus Gold"?

 

There will be very little difference in the power consumption at 10% load between an 80+ Bronze and 80+Gold unit.    The Silverstone unit is VERY good at low loads ... I've used several of their SFX models and they've all been excellent.

 

[doctorboy]

 

There will be very little difference in the power consumption at 10% load between an 80+ Bronze and 80+Gold unit.    The Silverstone unit is VERY good at low loads ... I've used several of their SFX models and they've all been excellent.

 

Good news! One more piece of the system is decided then.

[gswarriorfan]

Any plans on putting server to s3 sleep when it's not in use?  That could potentially save on electricity consumption.

[doctorboy]

Any plans on putting server to s3 sleep when it's not in use?  That could potentially save on electricity consumption.

Yes, I will try to use s3 sleep and Wake On Lan features. I just need to find the right workflow to fulfill my needs. Is something that I will study after the setup of my machine.