Anybody planning a Ryzen build?


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Well gents, just wanted to give you a update on Ryzen w/ c-states enabled locking up unRAID... or rather how we've fixed it!   On my Ryzen test machine, with array stopped (to keep it idle)

I was asked by another user to put this update in this thread as well, but it appears the issue relating to Nested Page Tables with AMD platforms has been resolved via a patch created by Paolo Bonzini

Okay, so I took another stab at this today.  For the record, my board is the ASUS Prime X370-PRO.   If I open a putty window and run "sensors-detect", here's what I get (skipping 'No" items)

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Just now, azteca25 said:

 

Will the UnRaid OS staff update this thread with their findings as they do their testing

 

Possibly, but keep in mind there have been several reports that linux support is much better in a later kernel than what is currently in unraid. With that in mind, I wouldn't expect much of a positive result until unraid's next update that includes the new kernel. I'm sure limetech has internal builds that they are testing, but don't expect to hear about them.

 

Realistically, I'd say wait for the next round of public unraid beta's before even contemplating a ryzen build unless you are a willing guinea pig. 

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Actually everything except boost / xfr works fine atm (just set cpu-clock to 3,8ghz). My system is working fine with lots of Dockers and VMs (also with passthroughed graphic cards and so on). I just miss an option for a second passthroughed USB-Card (cause of unlucky IOMMU). Anyways awesome for the money :D

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I am looking to build a 2 gamer 1 machine setup.  This means I will need IOMMU isolation for all PCIe slots on the X370 chipset.  2x PCIe lanes running in 8x for 2 rx480's and 1 4x slot for the basic VM low power desktop graphics card.  Basically what I am worried about is IOMMU groupings not allowing this setup to function.  I would love to order a motherboard and CPU, but I am not sure if the groupings will work the same with all x370 motherboards?  

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9 minutes ago, hblockx said:

Actually everything except boost / xfr works fine atm (just set cpu-clock to 3,8ghz). My system is working fine with lots of Dockers and VMs (also with passthroughed graphic cards and so on). I just miss an option for a second passthroughed USB-Card (cause of unlucky IOMMU). Anyways awesome for the money :D

 

That's great news!  Thanks for sharing.  From what I'm reading on other Linux sites (like Phoronix), it's only going to get better from here.  KVM improvements are incoming in future Linux releases.

 

Are you able to read temperatures or control fan speeds?

 

I'm curious about the boost and XFR not working.  Ryzen automatically disables boost and XFR as soon as you perform even the slightest overclock.  I can't tell from your post if you first set the CPU clock to 3.8GHz and then noticed boost and XFR were not working (to be expected), or if because boost and XFR were not working, you overclocked up to 3.8GHz.  My understanding is that boost and XFR are built into the CPU and do not require OS support, but maybe I am wrong.  Could be a BIOS issue, though.

 

I find this aspect frustrating, especially with the memory speed situation.  Sure, Ryzen is capable of running DDR at 3200+ speeds, but ONLY if you overclock, and as soon as you overclock, you loose boost and XFR capabilities.

 

From what I've learned (can't verify yet), Ryzen only has built-in memory speeds of 1866, 2133, 2400, 2666 and supposedly 2933.  Any other speeds can only be reached via overclocking the bus.

 

Since I find it desirable to keep the boost and XFR functionality, and prefer not to overclock to maintain CPU life, that means I'm going to target 2666 for my RAM.  This is still faster than the stock 1866 that is advertised for 4 double-sided DIMMs (the only way to get to 64GB).  But that new 64GB 3200 memory kit that G.Skill just announced (and I was really wanting it) can only reach that speed with overclocking.

 

-Paul

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6 minutes ago, azteca25 said:

I am looking to build a 2 gamer 1 machine setup.  This means I will need IOMMU isolation for all PCIe slots on the X370 chipset.  2x PCIe lanes running in 8x for 2 rx480's and 1 4x slot for the basic VM low power desktop graphics card.  Basically what I am worried about is IOMMU groupings not allowing this setup to function.  I would love to order a motherboard and CPU, but I am not sure if the groupings will work the same with all x370 motherboards?  

 

The rumor is that on X370 boards, if you run dual GPU's in 8x mode, that splits the primary x16 slot into two slots, each addressable in a separate sub IOMMU.  That would work for your needs.

 

The harder part may actually be separating out the USB ports for a 2-gamer setup.  Again, the theory is that you could passthrough CPU based USB ports in one IOMMU, and X370 chipset based USB ports in another IOMMU.  The hard part would be figuring out which ports connect to the CPU vs. the chipset.

 

Of course, all of the above is still just rumor and theory, but right now it sounds like this may be possible on X370 boards.  B350 boards may not have this capability, though.

 

-Paul

Edited by Pauven
Clarification.
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I knew for sure that it would be impossible to do with B350 boards, but I have yet to see the IOMMU readout showing the 16x PCIe broken up into 2 8x slots to be able to pass them through.  If you have a link to show this, I would be really interested in seeing it.  I am also hopeful that USB will work as you describe, otherwise my dream of the ultimate machine, will be crushed.

 

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8 minutes ago, Pauven said:

 

That's great news!  Thanks for sharing.  From what I'm reading on other Linux sites (like Phoronix), it's only going to get better from here.  KVM improvements are incoming in future Linux releases.

 

Are you able to read temperatures or control fan speeds?

 

I'm curious about the boost and XFR not working.  Ryzen automatically disables boost and XFR as soon as you perform even the slightest overclock.  I can't tell from your post if you first set the CPU clock to 3.8GHz and then noticed boost and XFR were not working (to be expected), or if because boost and XFR were not working, you overclocked up to 3.8GHz.  My understanding is that boost and XFR are built into the CPU and do not require OS support, but maybe I am wrong.  Could be a BIOS issue, though.

 

I find this aspect frustrating, especially with the memory speed situation.  Sure, Ryzen is capable of running DDR at 3200+ speeds, but ONLY if you overclock, and as soon as you overclock, you loose boost and XFR capabilities.

 

From what I've learned (can't verify yet), Ryzen only has built-in memory speeds of 1866, 2133, 2400, 2666 and supposedly 2933.  Any other speeds can only be reached via overclocking the bus.

 

Since I find it desirable to keep the boost and XFR functionality, and prefer not to overclock to maintain CPU life, that means I'm going to target 2666 for my RAM.  This is still faster than the stock 1866 that is advertised for 4 double-sided DIMMs (the only way to get to 64GB).  But that new 64GB 3200 memory kit that G.Skill just announced (and I was really wanting it) can only reach that speed with overclocking.

 

-Paul

 

2 minutes ago, Pauven said:

 

The rumor is that on X370 boards, if you run dual GPU's in 8x mode, that splits the primary x16 slot into two slots, each addressable in a separate sub IOMMU.  That would work for your needs.

 

The harder part may actually be separating out the USB ports for a 2-gamer setup.  Again, the theory is that you could passthrough CPU based USB ports in one IOMMU, and X370 chipset based USB ports in another IOMMU.  The hard part would be figuring out which ports connect to the CPU vs. the chipset.

 

Of course, all of the above is still just rumor and theory, but right now it sounds like this may be possible on X370 boards.  B350 boards may not have this capability, though.

 

-Paul

 

 

So in short:

no boost /xfr before oc, i oc cause of that but 3.8ghz is safe default-clock of 1700x => no problem at all

i have my 2 gamers 1 pc build one by this and it works like a charm (980ti + 1050 ti passive)

i have a Gigabyte X370 Gaming 5 Mainboard and it supports 3200 out of the box by setting Ram-Clock to 3200, tested the 64 GB GSkill-RAM a whole day with prime95. They just do not promise it but technically it works without increasing bus-speed...

I cannot read the temps in unraid, this is part of 4.10-Kernel (which i rly want to have :D )

Are there any (even rly hard to do) solutions for getting a pcie-usb-controller-card passthroughed although it is in group with a lot of important stuff?

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Just now, hblockx said:

no boost /xfr before oc, i oc cause of that but 3.8ghz is safe default-clock of 1700x => no problem at all

 

i have a Gigabyte X370 Gaming 5 Mainboard and it supports 3200 out of the box by setting Ram-Clock to 3200, tested the 64 GB GSkill-RAM a whole day with prime95. They just do not promise it but technically it works without increasing bus-speed...

 

 

Technically, your overclock is not the same.  1700X only boosts to 3.8GHz on a single core or two, not all cores.  Your overclock to 3.8GHz is on ALL cores.  Not the same.  You'll get better performance than stock (except in single threaded cases where stock boost + XFR might have boosted to 3.9GHz).

 

So I'm curious about your motherboard allowing you to set the RAM clock to 3200, is it possible it was overclocking the bus behind the scenes, which in turn disabled boost and XFR?

 

-Paul

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Pauven said:

 

Technically, your overclock is not the same.  1700X only boosts to 3.8GHz on a single core or two, not all cores.  Your overclock to 3.8GHz is on ALL cores.  Not the same.  You'll get better performance than stock (except in single threaded cases where stock boost + XFR might have boosted to 3.9GHz).

 

So I'm curious about your motherboard allowing you to set the RAM clock to 3200, is it possible it was overclocking the bus behind the scenes, which in turn disabled boost and XFR?

 

-Paul

 

 

 

I can evaluate this later, when i am at home, but i thought ryzen supports boosting all cores at the same time. Boost and XFR are also disabled for my friends unraid-build with same setup but without oc... My mainboard had the XMP-RAM-Feature, just read the 3200-clock and is working stable with that. Could have many reasons, in the end the result matters i guess :D

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18 minutes ago, hblockx said:

 

I can evaluate this later, when i am at home, but i thought ryzen supports boosting all cores at the same time. Boost and XFR are also disabled for my friends unraid-build with same setup but without oc... My mainboard had the XMP-RAM-Feature, just read the 3200-clock and is working stable with that. Could have many reasons, in the end the result matters i guess :D

 

Ryzen does support boosting all cores at the same time, just that it is unlikely to hit max boost with all cores, and even if it does it would not be sustained.  More likely, on the 1700X all core boosts will be sustained at 3.5-3.6GHz, half core boosts in the range of 3.6-3.7Ghz, and 1-2 core boost reaching up to max boost.  You can see this in tests where an overclock to 3.8Ghz outperforms stock settings that allow boosting up to 3.8Ghz.

 

Boosting all cores, you should expect higher temperatures, even without voltage increases.  Please make sure you have sufficient coolling, especially since you are not able to monitor temperatures.

 

I'm pretty sure that your motherboard, upon reading the XMP settings, overclocked the system bus for you (and may have underclocked the CPU to get back to original CPU speeds).  Otherwise it shouldn't have been able to reach 3200.

 

If you go to the G.Skill website, where they announced their new DDR4-3200 for Ryzen, look at the CPU-Z screenshots, and you'll see the Bus speed is overclocked to 119.99 MHz.  Here's the link:  http://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g-skill-announces-flare-x-series-and-fortis-series-ddr4-memory-for-amd-ryzen

 

I don't know how to find the Bus speed in Linux, but maybe you can see it in the BIOS?

 

I think this is why boost and XFR are not working for you, because the motherboard is overclocking the Bus by 20% to get the RAM up to speed.  Of course, this means you are also enjoying better performance from having a 20% faster Bus (which reviews are saying helps a lot in gaming).

 

You could try setting the memory down to 2666 or lower, and turning off your overclock, and see if boost and XFR start working.

 

-Paul

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5 minutes ago, Pauven said:

You could try setting the memory down to 2666 or lower, and turning off your overclock, and see if boost and XFR start working.

 

-Paul

 

My friends build is oc-free with 2400-Ram and no boost / xfr...

 

Cooling should be ok, double 420mm radiator-watercooled. Actually i went to 3.9 because this was the highest stable clock without increasing voltage at all. I cannot see the point of raising the volts by 0.15 just for reaching 0.1Ghz more clock.

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12 minutes ago, hblockx said:

 

My friends build is oc-free with 2400-Ram and no boost / xfr...

 

Cooling should be ok, double 420mm radiator-watercooled. Actually i went to 3.9 because this was the highest stable clock without increasing voltage at all. I cannot see the point of raising the volts by 0.15 just for reaching 0.1Ghz more clock.

 

Okay, I guess that begs the question, how do you know that boost isn't working?

 

That's a really nice all-core overclock at stock voltages.  You may have won the CPU lottery.  Excellent cooling too.

 

My ASRock motherboard and RAM arrived yesterday, and my 1800X and Noctua cooler arrive today.  But I'm still waiting on the Noctua AM4 cooler adapter, shipping from Austria.  Might still be 3 weeks out.  Frustrating that I can't do anything.  I want to play.

 

Perhaps I need to pick up a cheap cooler for temporary use.  Or perhaps I can find the NM-AM4 mounting adapter kit in stock and purchase it - it's only supposed to be about $8.  If anyone has suggestions, I'm listening.

 

-Paul

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1 minute ago, Pauven said:

 

Okay, I guess that begs the question, how do you know that boost isn't working?

 

That's a really nice all-core overclock at stock voltages.  You may have won the CPU lottery.  Excellent cooling too.

 

My ASRock motherboard and RAM arrived yesterday, and my 1800X and Noctua cooler arrive today.  But I'm still waiting on the Noctua AM4 cooler adapter, shipping from Austria.  Might still be 3 weeks out.  Frustrating that I can't do anything.  I want to play.

 

Perhaps I need to pick up a cheap cooler for temporary use.  Or perhaps I can find the NM-AM4 mounting adapter kit in stock and purchase it - it's only supposed to be about $8.  If anyone has suggestions, I'm listening.

 

-Paul

 

Created VM and looked at the cpu-clocks, also checked it with lscpu while stressing it. My friend waited 2 weeks for the adapter for his noctua...

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48 minutes ago, Pauven said:

 

Talk about bang for the buck!  That's less than £9/thread... B|

Ha ha, never thought of it like that. It's more the clock speeds...although tbh at an all core boost of 2.6 or so and peak of 3.0 I'll probably be fine. can't grumble at the cost.

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I found the Noctua NM-AM4 in stock at Amazon (finally), and went ahead and ordered it.  Shipping is a bit slow, projected to be here on Monday, but that will probably beat the one Noctua sent me by a week or two.

 

-Paul

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14 minutes ago, planetwilson said:

Ha ha, never thought of it like that. It's more the clock speeds...although tbh at an all core boost of 2.6 or so and peak of 3.0 I'll probably be fine. can't grumble at the cost.

 

Let's see...

 

Ryzen 1700X = 16 threads x 3.9GHz (if OC) = 62.4GHz total processing capacity

E5-2683 v3 = 28 threads x 2.5GHz (max all-core boost) = 70.0GHz total processing capacity

 

Not bad at all.

 

Depending upon the workload, the Ryzen may still be faster, as the E5-2683 v3 is based upon the older Haswell architecture and doesn't have all the latest improvements.  But it does have quad-channel DDR4, which is nice.

 

Perhaps there's some tests we can do to see how they compare head-to-head.  I imagine it would be close. 

 

I've just started reading the Phoronix website, and they just released the Phoronix Test Suite 7.0, which is a benchmark suite for Linux.  Don't know if it could be run in unRAID directly, but at the very least we could create a Linux VM with pretty much all cores passed through, and test it that way.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=pts-70-ringsaker&num=1

 

-Paul

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