tomo Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hi, so im trying out unraid 6 as an alternative to have data on shares and I am completly dissapointed with unraid 1. trial key dissapeared after I added a user so after I spend 16 hours(!) building a parity drive, I want to see what is is like to add a user, So i added a user and then took the share offline. then the webbrowser refreshes and I see the "no licence key" message on the top. Is this normal? if I spend money on this for a real key is it going to forget it from time to time and lock ME out of MY data?. This has happened a second time now. Not impressed at all. 2. anonymous logins are default on? I think this is a massive flaw, there should be some kind of welcome diaglog that sets this up. even my little 2 bay share centre does this! I turned on my old server to copy some files accross and it didnt prompt me for a user name / login! it just went right to the share. Looking at the default shares, iso, etc, they are all default anon login as well. 3. Not possible to change settings I tried to change this security setting in "shares" from "public" to "private" and nothing happens. I click apply and it just reverts back to "public" 4. does not default to GUI After booting for the first time I was not looking at the computer monitor for the 4 seconds it asks you to make the choice, and I was dropped at a CLI with no explanation on what to do. Now Im just a regular computer user and while I'm sure some people really get off on memorising all of the commands and think they are getting more out of it, but I want the GUI as the default. I can afford a KVM switch for this and that is what I have for my other computer and it works fine. I'm sure this is just a settings change somewhere but it is not clear where. When I pressed a key to change the settings on the bootloader, it just came up with a CLI with no explanation so I just reset. 5. paid support? really? So I will be looking to consoliadate some scattered servers with smaller capacityies into 1 server, so I would be looking at the full $129 option, I then check the support and see you are charging $$$ for 121 support? really? even after I buy your product for the full price? Not impressed by that. I work where I have to support my customers and if we said "i'm going to charge you $200 p/h for this phone call" I would be out of business very quickly. I think this is very poor. forums do not count as real support. 6. parity rebuild times. So I accept that at some point I have to do this, I left it on overnight to do this. 16 hours it took. how much did that cost in electricity? Now im thinking thats it for good and it will alter the parity on the fly when it writes new data to the disk? yes? So I pretend that I want to add a disk to the array and then bring it back on line and it wants to do it again? really? surely it should be smart enough to detect that the other drives are still there and not changed (thats what i'm paying the money for right?) So I have to look up and there seems to be a way to trick it into doing this, but is is full of warnings of data loss, etc. Well the data is there on the drive. it is not lost. Not happy about costantly performing this parity operation. It seems to be it will wear out the drive quicker, so a bad idea there. 7. locked out of remote web interface I tried logging on to the http web interface to the tower, but it did not let me in. it said unraid is waiting for password. I try both the new passwords for the root and user login and neither of them work. 8. broken local web interface There is often a "Warning parse_ini_file(boot" message at the top of the GUI, which does not instill any confidence in the rest of the system. I'm suppost to trust my data to this and there are parsing error messages on the GUI front screen? Considering I have allready bought the case and the CPU/mobo/ram is modern from my old PC and in good working condition. I will probaby just amalgamate my data into this 1 24 bay server using shares, because this unraid is buggy, expensive, power hungry (I'm not going to leave this on overnight so it can waste power). -Tomo Link to comment
remotevisitor Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 From some of the issues you reported (1, 3, 7, 8 ) it looks like your USB flash drive has dropped offline for some reason; the issues you reported all look like issues reading or writing configuration information on the flash drive. initial suggestion is try moving the flash drive to a different USB slot. If it is in a USB3 slot and you have a USB2 slot available then try using that one. Link to comment
hernandito Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 So many negative statements based on ignorance. Some even showing disdain to this community. 2 hours ago, tomo said: while I'm sure some people really get off on memorising all of the commands and think they are getting more out of it, but I want the GUI as the default. Every statement above is so 'wrong" and a waste of time trying to respond. But in the spirit of how supportive we all are, there have been countless Linux newbies that have adopted unraid and "get it". Lime-tech is not a giant multinational corporation with thousand of employees. It is a framework system that has built in the capability for individuals and the forum support community to add functionality that would blow your mind. It did for me 10+ years ago, and I check this forum several times a day just to find what new awesomeness I can add. 365 days x 10 years = 3,650 days 3,650 days / $129 = $0.035 per day Take care of yourself. Speaking only for myself, It was nice knowing you. Really. Bye. Link to comment
Frank1940 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, remotevisitor said: If it is in a USB3 slot and you have a USB2 slot available then try using that one. This is an excellent starting point. On UBS2 ports, the internal plastic part is black; on USB3 ports, the plastic part is blue. Let's get it booting up properly first. By the way, unRAID runs completely from RAM after loading a Linux OS to a RAM disk. So the speed of the USB port (and the flash drive for that matter) is irrelevant in the responsiveness of the server. Power consumption is dependent of your choice of CPU/MB combination. unRAID itself does not require high end hardware to do the job. Most of us run headless (no monitor) and spin the hard drives down when they are not being accessed. Both of my systems idle at about 40W and, yes, they are on 24-7. My electric costs are about $.06(US)/KWH and that is about what it costs to have one server running 24-7--- Six Cents a day! You can shut your server down at night (A cron job will do that) and you can implement wake-up-on-LAN but there are a lot of advantages, if you plan on using SMB, to have it running 24-7. You can't be serious about power costs if you can afford to be setting up a 24 server.... Link to comment
SSD Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 @tomo Welcome to the unRaid forums! Sorry you are having issues. Please realize that the unRaid support forums are manned primarily by unpaid non-Limetech employees. If you have a beef with the company or their product, you might want to reach out to them directly. I bought UnRaid in 2008 and the product you see today is so enhanced from that baseline as to be indistinguishable . And unRaid had never asked for an update fee. They really mean upgrade were free. I think the price is very reasonable. And it's cost is but s drop in the bucket compared to the hardware cost for a server, and multiples its utility significantly. Many here have a warm spot in their hearts towards the company that has struggled to take a hobby into a successful business venture, and treats its users very well. Paid support is rare and does not involve is. UnRaid is more of a personal media server and less of a product for commercial enterprises, although commercial use is not unheard of. We have a good reputation at helping users for free! UnRaid is fairly open, security-wise, on install. There are features to tighten it down. Many users run it on home networks and don't need the tightest security. And as you've seen, getting it cranked up and working can have challenges, and this is one less that users have to overcome. But I agree times are changing and today even a small intranet needs security. But it is what it is, and you have the tools. Forum really can't help with the default config. It does seem that you are having issues with the flash. Best of luck with your build. Please help us maintain our friendly reputation and avoid critical rants. Be a real person in problem solving mode and we can probably help you overcome current challenges and get the server humming! Thank you. Link to comment
tomo Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 I have bought a SanDisk UltraFit 16GB (thats the very small thumbnail) brand new from amazon last week for this. I tested it mit hw2testw its USB3.0 and it is in a USB3.0 port. I have tried the front USB slot and a rear USB port and after a few hours both ports lost the licence key. The motherboard is a msi z170a which has worked flawlessly for me in the past. currently there is a 6600k there, but long term I will downgrade to a pentium as I know I dont need the power. currently it is underclocked and thus less power used, but I will still not be happy leaving it on 24/7. I think perhaps most of the users here do not pay for their own electricity! What happens in the future if and when limetech go bust to the key then? I might have 24 hard drives with unaccessable data. What is the plan for this? my other main concern is regarding the rebuild times. Is this going to happen every time? Link to comment
JonathanM Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Each data drive in unraid is readable in virtually any linux box. No "unaccessable data" issues. Does the key drop if it's in a USB 2.0 slot? I'd say 99% of the people on here pay for our own electricity. A high percentage own their own homes, and have families. This is a very mature nerd group, I'd guess the average age of the most frequent forum users is on the high side of 40. The annual cost of electricity is very tiny compared to the annual cost of the hardware amortized over the lifetime of the server. If the server isn't shut down properly, parity accuracy is unknown and must be checked. So no, it doesn't happen every time, only when the server is unable to record a clean array stop to the USB drive. Link to comment
FreeMan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 As has been said several times, rants will not get you anywhere. Any software you buy from any company you buy it from will not be supported if the developer goes bust, be it Microsoft, Oracle or anyone else. That's the risk we all pay when using commercial software. I hope you don't use any OSS software because there is zero guarantee of support there and a significant chance that the dev will get tired of the project and drop support completely. When I bought my license key, Lime-Tech was Tom. Now there are 2 or 3 employees. Everyone else you here from here are users who are happy to answer your questions for free. If you'll patiently work your way through your issues one at a time, I'd imagine you'll be very impressed with the level of support you receive from all these unpaid volunteers (all 99.9% of whom pay their their own electric bills) - the depth of Linux and unRAID knowledge they're willing to share, for free, is quite astounding. You mentioned a USB3.0 drive and a USB3.0 port. It's been recommended that you not use a USB3.0 port, no matter what kind of USB key you have. For starters, have you tried ensuring you're not using a USB3.0 port? Also, I do recall that there were issues with different brands of USB stick back in the 4.x days, but I don't know if those still apply. Someone with more knowledge than I will probably chime in on that. Link to comment
itimpi Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, tomo said: I have bought a SanDisk UltraFit 16GB (thats the very small thumbnail) brand new from amazon last week for this. I tested it mit hw2testw its USB3.0 and it is in a USB3.0 port. I have tried the front USB slot and a rear USB port and after a few hours both ports lost the licence key. The motherboard is a msi z170a which has worked flawlessly for me in the past. currently there is a 6600k there, but long term I will downgrade to a pentium as I know I dont need the power. currently it is underclocked and thus less power used, but I will still not be happy leaving it on 24/7. I think perhaps most of the users here do not pay for their own electricity! What happens in the future if and when limetech go bust to the key then? I might have 24 hard drives with unaccessable data. What is the plan for this? my other main concern is regarding the rebuild times. Is this going to happen every time? 1). The trial license requiring internet access is one of the documented restriction - this is not required for full licenses. 4) Not booting into the GUI by default is because historically the vast majority of users have run their unRAID servers in ‘headless’ mode and probably located out-of-the-way. In fact the ability to boot into GUI mode at all was only added comparatively recently. UnRAID servers are frequently run completely unattended the vast majority of the time. The recent introduction of virtualisation features might mean a larger proportion are now attended but I am not sure what proportion that is. What makes you think that most users do not pay for their own electricity? In fact I would say the exact opposite. In fact one of unRAID’s attractions is that it does not need all drives spinning to read or write a file so it minimises power when left switched on but not being used. Many machines do not reliably support automated Powerdown and powering on at specified times. However once you have absorbed the hardware costs of a server of non-trivial size I suspect that the cost of running the server is not seen as the major factor. Past experience has shown that for some reason USB3 drives seem to be much more likely to drop offline for some reason. You seem to be suffering from this on your hardware setup. With unRAID each disk is a discrete file system and can easily be read on any Linux system. They can also be read on Windows and MacOS if suitable drivers for the file system are used. In that sense even if For some unlikely reason Limetech did disappear then you have not lost access to your data. 6) Adding a disk does NOT cause a parity rebuild. What it DOES do is completely zero (clear) every sector on the disk being added so that it can be added to the array without invalidating parity. During the clear process that is the only drive being written to, but it does take a significant time on large disks simply because of the number of sectors to be written. However adding a new drive is a relatively infrequent activity. Link to comment
tomo Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hi, I have swapped the drive to a usb2.0 drive (lucky I had one!) and I do not see any more parsing errors and the settings now seem to stick. The instructions on https://lime-technology.com/hardware-requirements/ Do not say anyway "Do not use USB3.0, it does not work". I read the instructions and got the drive it suggested so I think that needs updating. Look guys, I really want to like this unraid. It ticks all the boxes for me on paper. Linus is a good salesman and he made it appear that it was a perfect system that is all singing and all dancing but in reality it is not like that. Although I exclusively use VMs at work I am not intrested in VMs on unraid, but I thought the nas function was fully complete seeing it is as version 6 Link to comment
Frank1940 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, tomo said: The instructions on https://lime-technology.com/hardware-requirements/ Do not say anyway "Do not use USB3.0, it does not work". I read the instructions and got the drive it suggested so I think that needs updating. The problem with UBS3 ports (So few people have used UBS3 flash drives and reported any issues, there is really not any evidence that these drives themselves are a problem) is probably a complex problem involving the the Motherboard, BIOS and the Linux kernel. From what I have been able to gather many USB3 ports boot under the BIOS as a USB2 port. The boot process then starts loading the OS (Linux in this case) from the flash drive. As the boot process proceeds on, the OS detects that the port is an USB3 port and loads the driver for it. During the driver hand off (from UBS2 to USB3), the unRAID flash drive gets 'lost'. So the USB3 ports may work on some MB's and not on others... If someone experiences a problem with USB3 ports, we recommend using a USB2 port for the unRAID flash drive. unRIAD basically never reads or writes to that flash drive as the entire OS in loaded onto a RAM disk in the first minute of the boot process and it runs from there. The only time the OS uses the flash drive is when you make changes to the basic configuration using the GUI. (That information is written to the files in the config folder on the flash drive.) Thus, the speed of the flash drive has no impact on the overall performance of the system. Link to comment
graywolf Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Another tip. If you have problems, collect the diagnostics file and post it. Type diagnostics at cmd line or thru the GUI. Doing that folks could have identified USB or other issues and provide recommendations. As as others have said, 24/7 power consumption can be greatly minimized by using spin down functionality. Several of your general statements were very negative and off putting. Initial reaction was "screw him" but I will take it as initial frustration and hope your experience (and attitude) get better now past the USB drive issue. Link to comment
graywolf Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 As far as adding drives to a parity protected array that you read up on the preclear script. Will be handy Link to comment
1812 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 1 hour ago, tomo said: . Linus is a good salesman and he made it appear that it was a perfect system that is all singing and all dancing but in reality it is not like that I read this statement as 1 hour ago, tomo said: "BUT LINUS MADE IT LOOK EASY! AND HE'S CLEARLY AN IDIOT, SO I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT." 8 hours ago, tomo said: I will probaby just amalgamate my data into this 1 24 bay server using shares, because this unraid is buggy, expensive, power hungry (I'm not going to leave this on overnight so it can waste power). Link to comment
SSD Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 3 hours ago, tomo said: What happens in the future if and when limetech go bust to the key then? I might have 24 hard drives with unaccessable data. What is the plan for this? Tom (LimeTech head honcho and unRAID author) has said that there are plans to disseminate needed informaton should the company go under or if something traumatic happened to him. That was when he was a single shingle, but since then, he now has several employees and they'd likely be able to carry forward. What NAS functions are you finding immature? I have an array of over 15 drives and it has been rock stable through many upgrades and versions. Monthly parity checks and enabling notification features to alert you of drive issues - and it is a pretty hands free operation. But it is not turn key, and the issues left to the human, like the USB creation, cabling, and self inflicted wounds due to lack of understanding can and do occur. I'm reminded of the expression that it is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious. Enjoy your array! Link to comment
BobPhoenix Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 5 hours ago, tomo said: I think perhaps most of the users here do not pay for their own electricity! My $200+/- 20 a month gas and electric bill would disprove this. 4 unRAID servers active, 1 Desktop and 1 laptop as well as electric car - Volt. Link to comment
tomo Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 So i tried copying more data onto the share and then it locks up. I have to reset the server and the parity drive is missing from the config. I try the usual of taking it out, trying it in another slot, etc, nothing. I try it in my old server and it reports a xfs file system with 1000+ bad sectors. It wont even mount. This 8TB drive is a year old and has only been used to store data. It was the parity drive and unraid killed it in less than 48 hours with excessive read/writes.. I put it back into my tower and the raid card wont even make a single raid0 array with it. This is getting really expensive. How long to hard drives normaly last with unraid? days? weeks? Link to comment
tdallen Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 They last years. Obviously, your experience isn't typical and there's something going wrong with your setup (if this were typical, none of us would be here...). We're just a community of fellow users here. If you'd like additional help, we'll continue to offer it. The best way to obtain help is to go into detail on "here's exactly what I last did, and here are the results" then ask for help on next steps - before you do anything else! Link to comment
BobPhoenix Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, tomo said: How long to hard drives normaly last with unraid? days? weeks? Has nothing to do with unRAID. Your drive was likely on it way out before you added it to unRAID. The usage to build your array just exposed it. My question to you was where did you buy it and was it a retail package or an OEM? I don't buy OEM any more because most sellers do a lousy job of packaging and cause premature HDD death because of that lousy packaging. Link to comment
FreeMan Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Since you are having issues, I certainly hope you're not trusting your only copy of valuable files to unRAID just yet. Number 1 step: Take a deep breath. Number 2 step: Write a nice, detailed post including your exact hardware specifications and exactly the steps you've taken Number 3 step: INCLUDE THE DIAGNOSTICS.ZIP file. You can generate this from the GUI at Tools -> Diagnostics or from the CLI if the GUI isn't working for you Number 4 step: Wait patiently for one of the many experts to help you sort it out. They will do so quite willingly for free if you ask very nicely. Link to comment
remotevisitor Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Quote So i tried copying more data onto the share and then it locks up. I have to reset the server and the parity drive is missing from the config. I try the usual of taking it out, trying it in another slot, etc, nothing The lockup is not normal and as has been mentioned hopefully someone can help you diagnose the likely cause. I've not had any experience with lockups so you need someone more experienced than me in this area. Did the config report the parity drive as "missing disk" (i.e. it thinks there should have been a parity disk but could not find it), or did it report it as "unassigned" (it didn't think there should have been a parity disk present)? Quote I try it in my old server and it reports a xfs file system with 1000+ bad sectors. It wont even mount. This 8TB drive is a year old and has only been used to store data. It was the parity drive and unraid killed it in less than 48 hours with excessive read/writes.. I put it back into my tower and the raid card wont even make a single raid0 array with it. This is getting really expensive. How long to hard drives normaly last with unraid? days? weeks? You did say that this was your parity drive .... and as such a parity disk does not usually have any file system on it. However in your case I suspect you were trying it with just a single data disk in which case it is the special case where the parity should be an exact copy of the data disk (which is why it possibly looks like an xfs file system). When you say 1000+ bad sectors are you talking about hardware errors reported when reading the disk, or just blocks in the xfs file system that are not correctly allocated? When building parity you may think it is does excessive read/writes, but disks are designed to read and write data and building/checking parity is about the less stressful read/write sequence that a disk can do as it is just serially stepping through all the tracks of the disks (i.e. it is not doing lots of random disk head movements). However the one thing that it does do special is read or write every sector of the disks; therefore if you have sectors on a disk that have a problem it is likely to make you aware of them. When I first started using Unraid I used existing disks from previous systems, which I believed were perfectly fine. However I soon found there were a few of the drives that actually had bad sectors on them of which I had been completely unaware. Luckily, because Unraid highlighted the fact that the disks had problems I was able to replace the problem disks while they were still under warranty. If you really do have physical bad sectors on the disk, then hopefully you will be able to get the disk replaced under warranty (hopefully your warranty on it is 2+ years as you said it was a year old) ... yes it is inconvenient to do a warranty replacement .... but much better to find out now about a problem disk before trusting important data to the disk or finding out after the disk is out of warranty. As has already being suggested, providing the diagnostics.zip file will allow people experienced in analysing the logs and configuration file to possibly help you. Link to comment
graywolf Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 1 hour ago, tomo said: So i tried copying more data onto the share and then it locks up. I have to reset the server and the parity drive is missing from the config. I try the usual of taking it out, trying it in another slot, etc, nothing. I try it in my old server and it reports a xfs file system with 1000+ bad sectors. It wont even mount. This 8TB drive is a year old and has only been used to store data. It was the parity drive and unraid killed it in less than 48 hours with excessive read/writes.. I put it back into my tower and the raid card wont even make a single raid0 array with it. This is getting really expensive. How long to hard drives normaly last with unraid? days? weeks? You do know that a Parity Drvie does not have a files system per se. it is just a collection of bits based upon the bits on the sectors on the other drives. As I (and others) have mentioned, collect the diagnostic files and post them to get help. Otherwise maybe unRaid is not for you and you should find some other solution. unRaid is not perfect, nor is it for everyong, but it works great for me and many others. Best of luck in finding a solution that makes you happy and satisfied Link to comment
kizer Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 Alright everybody. Lets keep it some what civilized. Somebody came on here a bit disappointed and vented in their frustration everything that is giving them problems. Yes we all take our beloved software very personal, but lets not make somebody new to the world feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. @tomo Please take a quick breath and start from the top of what your having problems with. Like others have said you seem to be having some unique issues and so far one of them has been resolved by simply swapping to a USB2 drive vs a USB3. Many and I do mean many of us have been using unRAID for years. We constantly help each other and I can say Ive never lost one single file even with swapping out two failed drives and constant drive upgrades and swapout for more space. Link to comment
Frank1940 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 2 hours ago, graywolf said: You do know that a Parity Drvie does not have a files system per se. it is just a collection of bits based upon the bits on the sectors on the other drives. Normally, this is true EXCEPT for those systems which only have a parity drive AND one data drive. In that case (because the way that unRAID calculates its parity data), the parity drive will be an exact duplicate of the data drive! Link to comment
Frank1940 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 @tomo--- You can see the SMART reports for any drive on your unRAID server, by clicking on the Disk you want under the 'Device' column on the 'Main' page. You then select the Attributes section. The import ones are 5, 187, 188, 197, and 198. (Not all drive maufacturers report all of these number so if one isn't in the list don't worry about it.) You should watch number 199 as it can be an indicator of a cabling or SATA controller issue. When you download the diagnostic file, you can find the SMART reports inside of it. There is a lot of information contained in that zip file which is why anyone with serious problems is requested to upload it. Link to comment
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