is forced lowercase good to use?

[SPOautos]

I have several SMB's that are going to be mapped to windows pc's. Nearly everyone using this server are windows users and know nothing about Unraid and Linux. Would it be good to set up share with forced lowercase?  Is there any potential downside to that? I have read that since everything is case specific, not getting the case correct will cause duplicate files. Due to this, I thought it may be better to just force everything to be lower case.

 

Would this potentially cause issues with a SMB that is trying to sync folders between the PC and Unraid? Maybe on the PC they have a file in the mapped share called "Accounting" and on the Unraid its going to be "accounting" as they change the contents of the folder on the PC will is update the "accounting" folder or will with every change will it make new folders not realizeing that Accounting on PC and accounting on Unraid should be the same and sync together?

 

Thinking about it would it also be good to do for my regular shares like music and picture shares? I'm sure they have a lot of capital letters.

 

All of my drives are completely empty of data, I have not started migrating anything over yet.

 

That may be very confusing....I'm not a IT person so I may not be explaining this correctly...but maybe someone can make sense of what my concern is  lol.

 

THANK YOU!

Stephen

Edited August 30, 2020 by SPOautos

[Squid]

Windows won't allow you to create a file (or folder) named "Accounting" and "accounting".  It is the shares that aren't subject to this, and that you create yourself on the UI.  So, IMO it doesn't particularly matter if you create the share "Accounting" or "accounting".  You just can't create both.  My shares are a mixture Upper / lower case as the starting character, depending upon what kind of mood I was in at the time.

[Frank1940]

Where you have to be a bit careful is when something is created on the Linux side of the server-- Dockers, Pluings, Linux VM's. 

 

I added the following to my SMB Extras file a while back and seems to address this issue.

[global]
case sensitive = true

This does allow me to see two files which are identically named except for Capitialization that are on the Server.   However, I understand it does slow Samba down while searching (and probably in directory opening operation).  Windows will still prevent you from saving two files with the same name (except for capitalization) on the server. 

[SPOautos]

47 minutes ago, Squid said:

Windows won't allow you to create a file (or folder) named "Accounting" and "accounting".  It is the shares that aren't subject to this, and that you create yourself on the UI.  So, IMO it doesn't particularly matter if you create the share "Accounting" or "accounting".  You just can't create both.  My shares are a mixture Upper / lower case as the starting character, depending upon what kind of mood I was in at the time.

 

I wasn't very clear in explaining.....I meant if I use force lowercase for a SMB  share and that share is mapped to a PC.  If on the PC in that mapped drive, we created a folder called Accounting and then it moved to Unraid, was turned into accounting (do to forced lowercase), would that mess up any ability to sync them or would the PC and Unraid still see them as the same folder and sync the contents back and forth....or would it not connect? I would think Unraid may see them as two different things since its Accounting on the pc and accounting on the Unraid.

 

Probably still as clear as mud. I'm trying to set up so many different things to get this server and network going that I cant think straight  LOL

 

In either case, it sounds like to me but you and @Frank1940 are saying that regarding data, it doesn't matter and forced lowercase wont be helpful and I should just not worry about it and leave it on the default setting of "auto"......correct?

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by SPOautos

[Frank1940]

To be honest, the best way to see what is going to happen (for your case) is to run an experiment on your setup and see what works.   When you are working across an two different file environments and using a separate program to do data manipulation, you should design a experiment to test out what you are going to be trying to do. 

 

Of course, the easiest (and, probably, the best) way is avoid doing a deliberate case mismatch and avoid file/directory names that differ only in case.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Frank1940

[trurl]

5 hours ago, SPOautos said:

I have read that since everything is case specific, not getting the case correct will cause duplicate files.

What usually happens is you have 2 shares with the same name except for upper/lower case. Possibly one of these created accidentally when specifying a path on the server in docker mappings or something. Any top level folder on cache or array disk is automatically a user share named for the disk folder. No reason to expect these shares to have duplicate files, though you could certainly create duplicates in them.

 

The main point is that SMB will only show one of these shares on the network because it isn't case sensitive. So it can look like something is missing because you aren't seeing the files you expect to see, since they are in the share that SMB isn't showing.

 

Sort of similar. When you share disks on the network and you accidentally create a user share named for a disk (mistaken path specification again). SMB will only show the share or will only show the disk, so once again it looks like files are missing.

 

I always recommend not sharing disks on the network. There are other reasons besides the one I just gave, including one that can cause data loss.

[SPOautos]

1 hour ago, trurl said:

 

I always recommend not sharing disks on the network. There are other reasons besides the one I just gave, including one that can cause data loss.

 

Is there a alternative to creating shares across the lan to a pc? These are for several pc's who have very very basic users (way more basic than even me! lol ). But I want all their data to end up on the Unraid server in a organized fashion. I cant do anything that would require user input, it just needs to be something that happens. Ultimatly, Id like the data to reside only on the server so that the other devices do not get filled up. I also need to use Nextcloud (or similar) for several phones and ipads, but that is a whole different thing. My battle right now is trying to get the local pc's figured out, Id love to hear alternative ideas to a mapped share.

 

Thanks for all the input guys! I've never done anything like this so I'm just feeling my way through what will work, be reliable, and easy to manage, not take a lot of time.

[trurl]

6 minutes ago, SPOautos said:

Is there a alternative to creating shares across the lan to a pc?

Accessing Unraid shares over the network isn't really any different than accessing shares on any other computer on the network. Have you ever worked with networked computers before?

 

What exactly about the normal way you access Unraid shares over the network do you want an alternative to?

[SPOautos]

4 minutes ago, trurl said:

Accessing Unraid shares over the network isn't really any different than accessing shares on any other computer on the network. Have you ever worked with networked computers before?

 

What exactly about the normal way you access Unraid shares over the network do you want an alternative to?

 

I've worked with networked computers but nothing major (setting up a small office network that was all windows) and its been nearly 15 years ago so not like I remember all the details. It was something I had to figured out....at least now I have access to people who actually know what they are talking about!  LOL

 

You had mentioned you do not recommend doing network shares....so I was asking if there are some good alternatives that I may consider.

 

[Frank1940]

Basically, the root user is the one who creates the shares.  He also assigns the security to each share.  He creates the users and gives them their passwords. No user should be able to directly create a share.  That is the job of the Server Admin!

 

Once the share is created, the user can create all the files and folders/directories in his shares as he needs them.  If the share is mapped onto Windows as a drive, most programs can write directly to the share.   As far as the user is concerned, it is just another drive on his computer. 

 

Now the person who is the Server Admin  on the server usually does not want the hassle of having all those shares (that are not for  his use) mapped as drives.  In that case, he will do a bit of modification to Windows Explorer.  He open up Windows Explorer.  Now click on 'View' at the Top.  At the top far-left, click on 'Navigation Pane'. Then click on 'Navigation Pane' check box.   This will open a vertical panel on left of Windows Explorer.  At the bottom of the list, you will see 'Network', click on it and you will see of the Samba servers on your Network.  Click on your Unraid server and you can navigate all of the shares on the server that you have access do.  (When you create your user's shares for each person, if the share is not public, you probably want to give yourself (as the Server Admin) read-write permissions to all shares.  Depending on some other security issues (including privacy), you may want to delete yourself later as there are other tools to do this with having access via Samba.) 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Frank1940

[trurl]

41 minutes ago, SPOautos said:

You had mentioned you do not recommend doing network shares

You apparently misread or misunderstood.

 

2 hours ago, trurl said:

I always recommend not sharing disks on the network.

This statement came after several others in that post and in this thread discussing Unraid User Shares. User Shares are what you share on the network. I don't recommend sharing the actual disks that Unraid uses for those User Shares.

[SPOautos]

2 minutes ago, trurl said:

You apparently misread or misunderstood.

 

This statement came after several others in that post and in this thread discussing Unraid User Shares. User Shares are what you share on the network. I don't recommend sharing the actual disks that Unraid uses for those User Shares.

 

I was misunderstanding you, you were talking about disks and in my mind I thought you were still talking about shared.   Sounds good....I was just going to create specific shares for each person to use that their PC and their mobile ph will go too. Basically I have data scattered out all over the place and sometimes we need to find something and have to dig through multiple computers, ipads, phones to find what we are looking for. So I'm just trying to get ALL of our data in one place and trying to figure out the best way to organize it.

 

I appreciate you guys! Without the forum I couldn't have got past just putting the hardware together. Its amazing that I actually have a running and working server.....all thanks to people here on the forum and youtube videos. But I still have a LONG way to go so I'm sure you guys will get sick of me over the next month or so!  LOL

[SPOautos]

16 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

Basically, the root user is the one who creates the shares.  He also assigns the security to each share.  He creates the users and gives them their passwords. No user should be able to directly create a share.  That is the job of the Server Admin!

 

Once the share is created, the user can create all the files and folders/directories in his shares as he needs them.  If the share is mapped onto Windows as a drive, most programs can write directly to the share.   As far as the user is concerned, it is just another drive on his computer. 

 

Now the person who is the Server Admin  on the server usually does not want the hassle of having all those shares (that are not for  his use) mapped as drives.  In that case, he will do a bit of modification to Windows Explorer.  He open up Windows Explorer.  Now click on 'View' at the Top.  At the top far-left, click on 'Navigation Pane'. Then click on 'Navigation Pane' check box.   This will open a vertical panel on left of Windows Explorer.  At the bottom of the list, you will see 'Network', click on it and you will see of the Samba servers on your Network.  Click on your Unraid server and you can navigate all of the shares on the server that you have access do.  (When you create your user's shares for each person, if the share is not public, you probably want to give yourself (as the Server Admin) read-write permissions to all shares.  Depending on some other security issues (including privacy), you may want to delete yourself later as there are other tools to do this with having access via Samba.) 

 

I wish there was a button I could click that would basically save this post for me lol.  I need to start a collection of posts that I'm going to need to refer too over the next month.  And yes, as the admin I'll want to have read/write to everything on the server. That walk through of how to see it all in Windows will be a huge help.....THANK YOU

[trurl]

17 minutes ago, SPOautos said:

I'm sure you guys will get sick of me over the next month or so!  LOL

Don't hesitate to ask for help. What really makes me sick is someone asking for help too late and they have already screwed it up on their own. 

[SPOautos]

1 hour ago, trurl said:

Don't hesitate to ask for help. What really makes me sick is someone asking for help too late and they have already screwed it up on their own. 

 

SInce we are talking about network stuff, I just wanted to say that I have several shares now showing up on the PC's! Its going pretty good....just need to start getting users and security configured pretty soon.....at this point I do not have any data on the server. I'm getting it fully setup how I want it and know its 'right' before I add data.

On a side note and off topic from this thread (just hate to start another one lol )......is it okay to work on the server, messing with dockers, creating shares, creating a VM, and other such things at the same time that the server is doing a parity check?

[trurl]

17 minutes ago, SPOautos said:

On a side note and off topic from this thread (just hate to start another one lol )......is it okay to work on the server, messing with dockers, creating shares, creating a VM, and other such things at the same time that the server is doing a parity check?

Anything using the array disks during parity check or parity sync or data disk rebuild (basically all the large parity operations) will slow down these parity operations and also slow down those things using the disks, since they are competing for the same disks and since they will likely have to take turns seeking different sectors of the disks than the one the other process is accessing.

 

It won't break anything though. I sometimes use the array briefly and occasionally during parity checks, but not for large transfers.

[JonathanM]

21 minutes ago, SPOautos said:

is it okay to work on the server, messing with dockers, creating shares, creating a VM, and other such things at the same time that the server is doing a parity check?

Sure, it will just slow down any operations on the parity protected drives, and extend the time it takes to finish the parity.

[SPOautos]

6 minutes ago, trurl said:

Anything using the array disks during parity check or parity sync or data disk rebuild (basically all the large parity operations) will slow down these parity operations and also slow down those things using the disks, since they are competing for the same disks and since they will likely have to take turns seeking different sectors of the disks than the one the other process is accessing.

 

It won't break anything though. I sometimes use the array briefly and occasionally during parity checks, but not for large transfers.

 

Sounds good, I need to transfer a Windows ISO file from windows to the Unraid through a SMB share....just wanted to make sure that was going to be okay. Making changes to the data during a parity check seemed suspect.  I'm not worried about the slower speed, just wanted to make sure it was okay.

 

Thanks! I'd give you a like or thanks but I already hit the daily limit of them!

[SPOautos]

8 minutes ago, jonathanm said:

Sure, it will just slow down any operations on the parity protected drives, and extend the time it takes to finish the parity.

Thanks for the info! I'd give you a like or thanks but I already hit the daily limit of them! That HAS to be a sign that I'm making too many posts per day haha

[trurl]

Just now, SPOautos said:

I'm making too many posts per day haha

I doubt you're making as many as me haha

[Frank1940]

2 hours ago, SPOautos said:

I wish there was a button I could click that would basically save this post for me lol.  I need to start a collection of posts that I'm going to need to refer too over the next month.  And yes, as the admin I'll want to have read/write to everything on the server. That walk through of how to see it all in Windows will be a huge help.....THANK YOU

If you click on the "Posted xx minutes ago" bar, the URL on the address bar will change to that post.  You can then bookmark that that entry and move it to a folder in your bookmarks.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Frank1940