trurl Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think hardware is probably going to be the way forward for you. Larger but fewer array disks, for example. I don't think there is a lot of demand for what you want since we only have a single parity drive. Quote Link to comment
Wimpie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think hardware is probably going to be the way forward for you. Larger but fewer array disks, for example. I don't think there is a lot of demand for what you want since we only have a single parity drive. I also want larger drives, no problem, but I'm no wealhty man. I have the hardware that I have now. So with V6, I will need to go 'old style': 2 NAS servers and 1 VM host machine. Just what I don't wanted. And I'm not the only one with a fully loaded Pro server. Why would people buy these otherwise?? Just as well buy 2 or 3 plus licenses and use ESXi if you are that worried about parity... Quote Link to comment
ysss Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Starting with release of unRAID Server OS 6.0-rc1 we have introduced the following key registration changes: Device Limits We’ve moved from assignable-device limits to attached-device limits: - The array will not start if too many devices are attached. - At least one device must be assigned to an array Data disk slot. - To use non-array devices beyond your license limit, you can attempt to hot-plug the device after the array has started. Warning: If you stop the array, you will need to detach the device before you start the array again. Pricing - We’ve increased the price of Basic to $59 but also increased the device limit from 4 to 6. - We've increased the price of Plus to $89 but also increased the device limit from 8 to 12. - We've increased the price of Pro to $129. Existing users of any previous unRAID Server OS release can take advantage of these increased device limits simply by upgrading to 6.0-rc1 or later. It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... Are you complaining about the added features because you already have a Pro license or about to buy one? I think it's a really fair price increase considering all the features tacked on to it; and I think the market for people whom only need NAS functionality without docker/KVM is actually shrinking as users are learning how to use virtualization/partitioning and making use of it, than maintaining a separate VM server. Even NAS producers are getting into this game too, just check out Synology and their 'apps'. I have 3 Pro licences. I have 2 fully loaded pro servers (norco 4224 cases). 1 uses ESXi for VM's and other stuff (unraid in passthrough), the other is not VT-D capable. I wanted to use the second one for some extra VM's and dockers (you know, the new features...). Now it appears this is not at all possible because I can add only 1 extra drive (if I would not use a cache drive...). I don't want any extra (protected) array drives, but 4-6 extra non array drives for dockers/VM's would have been nice. This is getting frustrating because the absolute silence from LT, I send him a email about this (you know, the sticky about concerns/complaints second from the top in this subforum) , but I recieved no answer. So again, what extra features do I get with the new V6, a serious bill to buy new hardware... And in the end I still will be able to have extra VM's when I passthrouggh unraid. So I don't understand why LT wants to annoy/irritatie its pro users. I just don't understand it, but this is probably only me... I have 3 pro licenses too .. and a norco 20 ports case, 2 supermicro 24 ports case... (though i only use one unraid license so far... Testing flexraid on another). Well.. we bought unraid v4/5 licenses for pretty great price and now we're getting all these features for free. What to complain about? Or just use your old 'cheap' license for your nas-only box and buy a new v6 license for your unraid+kvm machine Quote Link to comment
PeterB Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... Yes, while device limits have been increased for the 'lesser' licence versions, I think that this is not, easily, achievable for Pro. The limit is dictated by the fact that unRAID currently(?) only allows for device names from sda to sdz - this imposes a limit of 24 data drives (or 23 + cache). Will this change in the future, just to please a small percentage of users? Only Tom can answer that one. Perhaps if/when we get p+q parity. There are many who hold the view that 24 data drives, with single parity, is too little redundancy and offers very poor protection. I wonder what unRAID does if it finds an sdaa drive (outside of the protected array)? Of course, there is a problem that drive letter assignments cannot be dictated. Quote Link to comment
Wimpie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... Yes, while device limits have been increased for the 'lesser' licence versions, I think that this is not, easily, achievable for Pro. The limit is dictated by the fact that unRAID currently(?) only allows for device names from sda to sdz - this imposes a limit of 24 data drives (or 23 + cache). Will this change in the future, just to please a small percentage of users? Only Tom can answer that one. Perhaps if/when we get p+q parity. There are many who hold the view that 24 data drives, with single parity, is too little redundancy and offers very poor protection. I wonder what unRAID does if it finds an sdaa drive (outside of the protected array)? Of course, there is a problem that drive letter assignments cannot be dictated. Please read this thread from top till bottom: https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=38189.msg353870#msg353870 Quote Link to comment
trurl Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... Yes, while device limits have been increased for the 'lesser' licence versions, I think that this is not, easily, achievable for Pro. The limit is dictated by the fact that unRAID currently(?) only allows for device names from sda to sdz - this imposes a limit of 24 data drives (or 23 + cache). Will this change in the future, just to please a small percentage of users? Only Tom can answer that one. Perhaps if/when we get p+q parity. There are many who hold the view that 24 data drives, with single parity, is too little redundancy and offers very poor protection. I wonder what unRAID does if it finds an sdaa drive (outside of the protected array)? Of course, there is a problem that drive letter assignments cannot be dictated. Please read this thread from top till bottom: https://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=38189.msg353870#msg353870 We have and limetech has commented on it there. Why rehash it in this thread? Quote Link to comment
jonp Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Starting with release of unRAID Server OS 6.0-rc1 we have introduced the following key registration changes: Device Limits We’ve moved from assignable-device limits to attached-device limits: - The array will not start if too many devices are attached. - At least one device must be assigned to an array Data disk slot. - To use non-array devices beyond your license limit, you can attempt to hot-plug the device after the array has started. Warning: If you stop the array, you will need to detach the device before you start the array again. Pricing - We’ve increased the price of Basic to $59 but also increased the device limit from 4 to 6. - We've increased the price of Plus to $89 but also increased the device limit from 8 to 12. - We've increased the price of Pro to $129. Existing users of any previous unRAID Server OS release can take advantage of these increased device limits simply by upgrading to 6.0-rc1 or later. It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... You have no limits on using VMs or docker. You can store both on array disks at the cost of write performance. You have a license entitling you to use up to 25 devices, and for that you can choose whether to use devices in a capacity-centric array or a performance-centric cache. Saying you can't use features because you are valuing capacity over performance simply isn't true. At some point in the future we may address this issue (as Tom and I have commented on before) but doing this in the short term (6.0 final) is just not in the cards for us right now. We are on feature freeze until 6.1. Quote Link to comment
Squid Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 We are on feature freeze until 6.1. Good move Quote Link to comment
Frank1940 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 We are on feature freeze until 6.1. Good move +1 Quote Link to comment
Wimpie Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Starting with release of unRAID Server OS 6.0-rc1 we have introduced the following key registration changes: Device Limits We’ve moved from assignable-device limits to attached-device limits: - The array will not start if too many devices are attached. - At least one device must be assigned to an array Data disk slot. - To use non-array devices beyond your license limit, you can attempt to hot-plug the device after the array has started. Warning: If you stop the array, you will need to detach the device before you start the array again. Pricing - We’ve increased the price of Basic to $59 but also increased the device limit from 4 to 6. - We've increased the price of Plus to $89 but also increased the device limit from 8 to 12. - We've increased the price of Pro to $129. Existing users of any previous unRAID Server OS release can take advantage of these increased device limits simply by upgrading to 6.0-rc1 or later. It would have been nice if Pro users not only got a price increase, but also some (even if only out of the array) increased device limit... I have now very limited use of all the new features, so much for paying pro prices... You have no limits on using VMs or docker. You can store both on array disks at the cost of write performance. You have a license entitling you to use up to 25 devices, and for that you can choose whether to use devices in a capacity-centric array or a performance-centric cache. Saying you can't use features because you are valuing capacity over performance simply isn't true. At some point in the future we may address this issue (as Tom and I have commented on before) but doing this in the short term (6.0 final) is just not in the cards for us right now. We are on feature freeze until 6.1. Thanks Quote Link to comment
3605481mah Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Doh, I upgraded to plus from basic just a day before this announcement as I needed 5 disks in my backup array.... Quote Link to comment
limetech Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Doh, I upgraded to plus from basic just a day before this announcement as I needed 5 disks in my backup array.... Send me an email, [email protected], and we'll make it right. Quote Link to comment
tyersch Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 End-of-Sale Announcement We will no longer be offering "Two-Packs". This was offered as an instantaneous back up for Flash failure before, but now users can instantly get a replacement key via our new online system. I have a spare upgrade from Plus to Pro under the old v5 licensing. Will i still be able to use this with the new licences if i ever decide to build a second server? Quote Link to comment
itimpi Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Quote Link to comment
tyersch Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Sorry - must not have explained myself very well. I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. The question is can I still apply the upgrade (v5 Plus > Pro) on a new v6 licence that I may purchase at some point? Quote Link to comment
trurl Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Sorry - must not have explained myself very well. I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. The question is can I still apply the upgrade (v5 Plus > Pro) on a new v6 licence that I may purchase at some point? I think you may still not have explained yourself very well. Do you mean you already have an upgraded license, but have yet to apply it to a specific USB GUID? I assume you would still be able to. Quote Link to comment
pinion Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I've yet to assign a USB drive to the key I bought when they were on sale for $30. I was under the impression I could do that anytime. Does this change anything with that? I just haven't gotten around to buying a new usb drive to assign to that key I bought but I suppose I could budget for that next payday if I need to hurry and get it assigned. Quote Link to comment
tyersch Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Sorry - must not have explained myself very well. I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. The question is can I still apply the upgrade (v5 Plus > Pro) on a new v6 licence that I may purchase at some point? I think you may still not have explained yourself very well. Do you mean you already have an upgraded license, but have yet to apply it to a specific USB GUID? I assume you would still be able to. Apparently not - let's try that again! I purchased the two-pack of Plus to Pro licence upgrades but i only have 1 licence, so i registered the upgrade to that licence and left the other GUID field blank. The proviso at the time of purchase was that if a second licence was purchased later then the second upgrade could then be applied to that licence - just wandering if this is still the case given the changes to the pricing / no longer offering the two-packs of licences. Quote Link to comment
trurl Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Sorry - must not have explained myself very well. I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. The question is can I still apply the upgrade (v5 Plus > Pro) on a new v6 licence that I may purchase at some point? I think you may still not have explained yourself very well. Do you mean you already have an upgraded license, but have yet to apply it to a specific USB GUID? I assume you would still be able to. Apparently not - let's try that again! I purchased the two-pack of Plus to Pro licence upgrades but i only have 1 licence, so i registered the upgrade to that licence and left the other GUID field blank. The proviso at the time of purchase was that if a second licence was purchased later then the second upgrade could then be applied to that licence - just wandering if this is still the case given the changes to the pricing / no longer offering the two-packs of licences. I think your terminology is still where the confusion lies. A license is what you bought, actually 2 licenses. A key file is used by unRAID to authenticate a license. A key file is tied to a specific USB flash GUID. You have a key file for one GUID which will authenticate your 1st license, but you don't yet have a key file for another GUID because you don't yet have a USB flash that you want your 2nd license assigned to. You still have a 2nd license though. I don't speak for limetech, but if you gave them money for a 2nd license then they have an obligation to you. Or am I still not understanding? Quote Link to comment
PeterB Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The proviso at the time of purchase was that if a second licence was purchased later then the second upgrade could then be applied to that licence - just wandering if this is still the case given the changes to the pricing / no longer offering the two-packs of licences. I'm in the same position as you (almost). I have (had) two plus keys, purchased separately. More recently, I purchased a 'two-pack' plus-to-pro upgrade. I upgraded one of the keys, but there was nowhere on the order page to specify a second key. I will transfer, and upgrade, that second key when I have identified a suitable device to transfer to. LT made an offer of a two-pack upgrade, allowing the second upgrade to be applied at some point in the future, and accepted my money. That is a contract, and LT cannot, unilaterally, alter the terms of that contract. Quote Link to comment
tyersch Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 If you have a second license then it will work on v6. Plus and Pro licenses work regardless of your unRAID version. Sorry - must not have explained myself very well. I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. The question is can I still apply the upgrade (v5 Plus > Pro) on a new v6 licence that I may purchase at some point? I think you may still not have explained yourself very well. Do you mean you already have an upgraded license, but have yet to apply it to a specific USB GUID? I assume you would still be able to. Apparently not - let's try that again! I purchased the two-pack of Plus to Pro licence upgrades but i only have 1 licence, so i registered the upgrade to that licence and left the other GUID field blank. The proviso at the time of purchase was that if a second licence was purchased later then the second upgrade could then be applied to that licence - just wandering if this is still the case given the changes to the pricing / no longer offering the two-packs of licences. I think your terminology is still where the confusion lies. A license is what you bought, actually 2 licenses. A key file is used by unRAID to authenticate a license. A key file is tied to a specific USB flash GUID. You have a key file for one GUID which will authenticate your 1st license, but you don't yet have a key file for another GUID because you don't yet have a USB flash that you want your 2nd license assigned to. You still have a 2nd license though. I don't speak for limetech, but if you gave them money for a 2nd license then they have an obligation to you. Or am I still not understanding? I think we are saying the same thing. Indeed, i only have 1 key/GUID registered. My concern was really around the fact that i have paid for an extra Plus>Pro upgrade and the price points have changed. Eg. If i purchase a new Plus licence can i use my already purchased upgrade? @PeterB - that's what my thinking is too, just want some confirmation from LT to that effect. Quote Link to comment
limetech Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 We will honor all past "credits" (the unredeemed 2nd key of a 2-pack and unredeemed '2nd key special' we were running earlier). The upgrades work like this: it can upgrade one or two keys or key credits that you already own at time of upgrade purchase. Quote Link to comment
garycase Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. I think Tom's answer is pretty clear ... ... The upgrades work like this: it can upgrade one or two keys or key credits that you already own at time of upgrade purchase. ... but just in case, note that you did NOT purchase a " two pack of upgrades " => you purchased ONE upgrade, that would have allowed you to upgrade either one or two keys that, as Tom noted, you already owned. IF you had already purchased a 2-pack of Plus licenses and had simply not yet assigned the 2nd license to a specific GUID, I assume that Tom would allow you to upgrade that, since you already owned the license. Same would likely be true if you'd purchased the $30 2nd key special and not yet assigned it to a flash drive. But if, as I think is the case, you do not actually have a 2nd Plus key, then the answer is NO ... you can't just buy a Plus key now and upgrade it to Pro for free. Quote Link to comment
trurl Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I purchased a two pack of upgrades from Plus to Pro but I've only used on of them so in theory i still have a 'spare' upgrade. I think Tom's answer is pretty clear ... ... The upgrades work like this: it can upgrade one or two keys or key credits that you already own at time of upgrade purchase. ... but just in case, note that you did NOT purchase a " two pack of upgrades " => you purchased ONE upgrade, that would have allowed you to upgrade either one or two keys that, as Tom noted, you already owned. IF you had already purchased a 2-pack of Plus licenses and had simply not yet assigned the 2nd license to a specific GUID, I assume that Tom would allow you to upgrade that, since you already owned the license. Same would likely be true if you'd purchased the $30 2nd key special and not yet assigned it to a flash drive. But if, as I think is the case, you do not actually have a 2nd Plus key, then the answer is NO ... you can't just buy a Plus key now and upgrade it to Pro for free. Thanks. I think that is perhaps the clearest statement we have had yet, and makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment
nars Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 @limetech: Would it be possible to also get a size limited trial mode (even if limited to 20GB or something small...) IF user doesn't register for the 30-day trial? And that mode working even if no usb attached at all. Such mode would be useful for small test environments on VM's, etc... i.e. user would need to apply for registered trial to get rid of the size limits but then would have 30-day time limit, else he would be able to keep the size limited mode forever, for tests, etc... best of both worlds? Quote Link to comment
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