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SMB question

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Recently I lost my ISP service (Time Warner :-\) for several days. With only the DNS service from my router I was also unable to connect to my unRaid SMB shares from the local network. AFP worked fine. As soon as TWC got around to restoring my service everything worked great.

 

I'm trying to figure out if this is the expected behavior for SMB or if I have some problem with my local network?

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Normally I would think that local DNS records should be cached in your router and having internet should have no effect on local DNS queries. It may be that the DNS functionality of your router becomes borked if there is no internet but I have never experienced that with my router. I have dsl and a modem router combo from Netgear, your modem may be different and that may affect your results. Any local DNS query should be recognized as internal by you router and forwarded properly without Internet. You could try pulling your internet manually then test your connections to your Unraid box via ping. I would pig your router ip along with your Unraid box. Do you use any static ip addresses for your internal network? Maybe without internet your routers dhcp settings are disabled, never seen that but I guess it could be possible.

 

-Alex

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I was able to connect to the webgui page. Fairly sure that means dhcp was still working. Using an AirPort Extreme router. Actually, I was still able to connect to other computers on my local network. Just not the unraid SMB shares from any machine on the local network. Don't use SMB to connect to any of the other machines so not sure how wide spread the problem was.

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Hmm, I have no experience an airport router I only have Windows computers and Unraid. In my case though using SMB when my internet is down (which is frequent) I can still reach my SMB shares. I can't think of any reason why your router would behave differently. I'm at a loss for where to go from here, you may need assistance from someone with a more mixed network, the only iDevice I have is my iPhone.

 

 

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You can always try getting to shares by IP, just hit \\192.168.100.50\catpictures and that will tell you whether you're having a problem resolving names or not. If it's speedy, but going by name is slow, your name resolution is jacked.

 

But no, it sounds like you have something screwed up on your local network. Internet access is not a requirement for SMB shares.

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Could not connect to any of the SMB shares using the ip. Actually I don't know any other way to connect to them.

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Could not connect to any of the SMB shares using the ip. Actually I don't know any other way to connect to them.

So, while your internet was broken, you couldn't get to:

\\myservername\catpictures

 

And you also couldn't get to:

\\192.168.100.50\catpictures

? Can you get to it by IP right now?

 

It sounds more like your routing/subnetting is broken than anything else, and that you're falling back to some kind of broadcast thing that's limping along.

 

Can you paste the result of ifconfig on your server, as well as on your workstation? Just the IP and netmask, and just for the br0, bond0, and eth0 interfaces. The rest are probably veth and are for docker stuff. It would also be helpful to have the results of "cat /etc/resolv.conf" and "route -n". If you can get the same kind of info off your workstation too, that'd be good, but I don't know the commands on a Mac, if they're different.

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Could not connect to any of the SMB shares using the ip. Actually I don't know any other way to connect to them.

So, while your internet was broken, you couldn't get to:

\\myservername\catpictures

Never thought to try that, but I doubt it would have worked.

 

And you also couldn't get to:

\\192.168.100.50\catpictures

Correct. Just timed out.

 

? Can you get to it by IP right now?

Yes. Everything started working the minute my ISP got service restored.

 

It sounds more like your routing/subnetting is broken than anything else, and that you're falling back to some kind of broadcast thing that's limping along.

 

Can you paste the result of ifconfig on your server, as well as on your workstation? Just the IP and netmask, and just for the br0, bond0, and eth0 interfaces. The rest are probably veth and are for docker stuff. It would also be helpful to have the results of "cat /etc/resolv.conf" and "route -n". If you can get the same kind of info off your workstation too, that'd be good, but I don't know the commands on a Mac, if they're different.

root@Brunnhilde:~# ifconfig
eth0: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500
        inet 10.0.1.20  netmask 255.255.255.0  broadcast 10.0.1.255
        ether 00:25:90:44:11:e6  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)
        RX packets 180544742  bytes 250465664222 (233.2 GiB)
        RX errors 0  dropped 169162  overruns 0  frame 0
        TX packets 33150567  bytes 19314546754 (17.9 GiB)
        TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0
        device memory 0xf7300000-f737ffff  

root@Brunnhilde:~# cat /etc/resolv.conf
# Generated entries:
nameserver 10.0.1.11

root@Brunnhilde:~# route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
0.0.0.0         10.0.1.1        0.0.0.0         UG    206    0        0 eth0
10.0.1.0        0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     206    0        0 eth0
127.0.0.0       0.0.0.0         255.0.0.0       U     0      0        0 lo
172.17.0.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 docker0


maggie:~ wgstarks$ ifconfig
en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
options=2b<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_HWTAGGING,TSO4>
ether 00:1f:5b:37:2b:38 
inet6 fe80::21f:5bff:fe37:2b38%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x4 
inet 10.0.1.190 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.0.1.255
nd6 options=1<PERFORMNUD>
media: autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex,flow-control>)
status: active

maggie:~ wgstarks$ cat /etc.resolv.conf
cat: /etc.resolv.conf: No such file or directory
maggie:~ wgstarks$ route -n
usage: route [-dnqtv] command [[modifiers] args]

 

unRaid=Brunnhilde

workstation=maggie

No br0 or bond0 interfaces.

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maggie:~ wgstarks$ cat /etc.resolv.conf

cat: /etc.resolv.conf: No such file or directory

You missed a slash there, it should be "cat /etc/resolv.conf"

Google also says it might not work, and to try "scutil --dns"

maggie:~ wgstarks$ route -n

usage: route [-dnqtv] command [[modifiers] args]

Try "netstat -nr". I don't really do Mac stuff, but Google tells me that should show your routes.

root@Brunnhilde:~# cat /etc/resolv.conf

# Generated entries:

nameserver 10.0.1.11

Are you running a DNS server on .11 and your router on .1? Most people just point to their router's DNS, maybe that's a typo and the source of your problems?

 

Missing bond0 and br0 is no big thing, it just means you didn't set up bonding and bridging.

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maggie:~ wgstarks$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
#
# Mac OS X Notice
#
# This file is not used by the host name and address resolution
# or the DNS query routing mechanisms used by most processes on
# this Mac OS X system.
#
# This file is automatically generated.
#
domain nc.rr.com
nameserver 10.0.1.11
nameserver 10.0.1.1
nameserver 8.8.8.8

maggie:~ wgstarks$ netstat -nr
Routing tables

Internet:
Destination        Gateway            Flags        Refs      Use   Netif Expire
default            10.0.1.1           UGSc           21        1     en0
10.0.1/24          link#4             UCS             3        0     en0
10.0.1.1/32        link#4             UCS             1        0     en0
10.0.1.1           64:a5:c3:5e:47:1d  UHLWIir        23     2094     en0    825
10.0.1.11          3c:7:54:3c:46:2b   UHLWIi          7   117081     en0   1180
10.0.1.20          0:25:90:44:11:e6   UHLWIi          3  6568490     en0    990
10.0.1.190/32      link#4             UCS             1        0     en0
10.0.1.190         0:1f:5b:37:2b:38   UHLWIi          2  1973134     lo0
10.0.1.255         ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff  UHLWbI          0       10     en0
127                127.0.0.1          UCS             0        0     lo0
127.0.0.1          127.0.0.1          UH              7     7275     lo0
169.254            link#4             UCS             1        0     en0
169.254.189.124    8c:29:37:a:7f:b6   UHLSW           0        1     en0
224.0.0            link#4             UmCS            2        0     en0
224.0.0.1          1:0:5e:0:0:1       UHmLWI          0        1     en0
224.0.0.251        1:0:5e:0:0:fb      UHmLWI          0        0     en0
255.255.255.255/32 link#4             UCS             1        0     en0
255.255.255.255    ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff  UHLWbI          0        7     en0

Internet6:
Destination                             Gateway                         Flags         Netif Expire
::1                                     ::1                             UHL             lo0
fd29:7187:cb3b:79b3:66a5:c3ff:fe5e:471d fd81:d7f6:edce:f86:e051:f499:b9da:ea7 UGHS          utun0
fd81:d7f6:edce:f86::/64                 fe80::e051:f499:b9da:ea7%utun0  Uc            utun0
fd81:d7f6:edce:f86:e051:f499:b9da:ea7   link#8                          UHL             lo0
fdd6:31a9:6317:6881:22c9:d0ff:fe15:2a68 fd81:d7f6:edce:f86:e051:f499:b9da:ea7 UGHS          utun0
fe80::%lo0/64                           fe80::1%lo0                     UcI             lo0
fe80::1%lo0                             link#1                          UHLI            lo0
fe80::%en0/64                           link#4                          UCI             en0
fe80::c2:c706:d521:c502%en0             8c:29:37:a:7f:b6                UHLWI           en0
fe80::21f:5bff:fe37:2b38%en0            0:1f:5b:37:2b:38                UHLI            lo0
fe80::c99:ab7e:ebdc:8c23%en0            8c:29:37:a:7f:b6                UHLWIi          en0
fe80::%utun0/64                         fe80::e051:f499:b9da:ea7%utun0  UcI           utun0
fe80::e051:f499:b9da:ea7%utun0          link#8                          UHLI            lo0
ff01::%lo0/32                           ::1                             UmCI            lo0
ff01::%en0/32                           link#4                          UmCI            en0
ff01::%utun0/32                         fe80::e051:f499:b9da:ea7%utun0  UmCI          utun0
ff02::%lo0/32                           ::1                             UmCI            lo0
ff02::%en0/32                           link#4                          UmCI            en0
ff02::%utun0/32                         fe80::e051:f499:b9da:ea7%utun0  UmCI          utun0

 

.1 is my router .11 is my OS X server. The router is configured to use it as a forwarding server unless something is configured wrong. The router did get fried by a lightning strike just a couple of days before the ISP service outage. Its possible I screwed up the configuration when I replaced it.

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You absolutely should have been able to get to any of your network resources with \\192.168.x.y without regard to whether or not you had an internet connection.

 

SOMETHING wasn't configured right.

 

That's a local network address which is NOT external to your network.

 

You should in fact be able to unplug your incoming internet connection and still use ALL of your local network rssources without issue.    The only exception to that, of course, is that UnRAID v6.2 will not Start the array without internet access => but if it's already running it should also work just fine.

 

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What computer/device is serving as your 'Local Master' for you SMB network?  (There is a Dynamix plugin to show the Local Master:  http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=36543.0    ) You have to understand that the Local Master performs a similar function for the SMB network as a DNS server does for the Interrnet.  (You can actually make SMB work without having a DHCP service on the network but you have to assign unique IP addresses to every computer on the network.  I can remember those days well as it became a real hassle when you got more than two or three computers on a network and wanting to add another one, remembering where the list was with the previous IP address assignments!)

 

Are you using a modem/router/switch provided by Time Warner?  Or a more standard setup of an IPS supplied modem, and your router/switch?  Do you have a separate switch or are you using the ports LAN port on the router? 

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Another point to bear in mind is that there can be a Local Master for each Workgroup.    You therefore normally want all the computers in your home LAN to be in the same workgroup.

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Another point to bear in mind is that there can be a Local Master for each Workgroup.    You therefore normally want all the computers in your home LAN to be in the same workgroup.

 

...And because of the different ways that Windows and Linux treat capitalization, the workgroup name should be all CAPITALS!  (My very quick test with Windows 7 just showed that Windows treats "test" and "TEST" as the same file name.  Linux does not.)  This practice will assure that Linux does not treat "Homegroup" and "homegroup" as two different Workgroups while Windows treats it as one. 

 

Back in the distant past, I seem to recall that Windows (and MSDOS) converted all file names to Capital Letters when the file was saved.  I seem to recall that changed about the time that Win 95 was introduced but, to this day, the OS ignores capitalization in file names.

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What computer/device is serving as your 'Local Master' for you SMB network?  (There is a Dynamix plugin to show the Local Master:  http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=36543.0    ) You have to understand that the Local Master performs a similar function for the SMB network as a DNS server does for the Interrnet.  (You can actually make SMB work without having a DHCP service on the network but you have to assign unique IP addresses to every computer on the network.  I can remember those days well as it became a real hassle when you got more than two or three computers on a network and wanting to add another one, remembering where the list was with the previous IP address assignments!)

 

Are you using a modem/router/switch provided by Time Warner?  Or a more standard setup of an IPS supplied modem, and your router/switch?  Do you have a separate switch or are you using the ports LAN port on the router? 

I have the unraid server set as local master. The ISP modem is configured as a modem only. I have an AirPort Extreme providing dhcp services and a Mac mini w/ OS X server providing mail, website, DNS and VPN services. Also using a managed 24 port Ethernet switch.

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Another point to bear in mind is that there can be a Local Master for each Workgroup.    You therefore normally want all the computers in your home LAN to be in the same workgroup.

 

...And because of the different ways that Windows and Linux treat capitalization, the workgroup name should be all CAPITALS!  (My very quick test with Windows 7 just showed that Windows treats "test" and "TEST" as the same file name.  Linux does not.)  This practice will assure that Linux does not treat "Homegroup" and "homegroup" as two different Workgroups while Windows treats it as one. 

 

Back in the distant past, I seem to recall that Windows (and MSDOS) converted all file names to Capital Letters when the file was saved.  I seem to recall that changed about the time that Win 95 was introduced but, to this day, the OS ignores capitalization in file names.

I think all the workgroups are set to WORKGROUP. I'd have to check that on each machine.

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I have the unraid server set as local master. The ISP modem is configured as a modem only. I have an AirPort Extreme providing dhcp services and a Mac mini w/ OS X server providing mail, website, DNS and VPN services. Also using a managed 24 port Ethernet switch.

 

What happens when you disconnect the modem from the AirPort Extreme with SMB up and working?  Does SMB continue function normally?

 

(Oh yes, setting your unRAID server to 'allow' it to become the Local Master is not a guarantee that it is.    Odds are high but the actual determination is done in an mysterious behind-the-scenes election process.) 

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Erm, with an all Mac network, why are you even bothering with Workgroups?

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Erm, with an all Mac network, why are you even bothering with Workgroups?

IIRC, WORKGROUPS is what Apple uses as a default. I don't actually have any use for it really AFAIK.

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What happens when you disconnect the modem from the AirPort Extreme with SMB up and working?  Does SMB continue function normally?

Since it's clear that somethings not right, I'll try and do some testing of this latter this week. Assuming that I will see the same issue again, what info (logs, files, whatever) would be helpful in troubleshooting this?

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I don't have a Workgroup set on my Macs.

 

System Preferences -> Network -> Advanced -> WINS looks like the attached file. The NetBIOS name is automatically taken from the Computer Name.

 

I have some network shares mounted using AFP, some with SMB and one with NFS. As is supposed to be the case with Mac OS X OS X macOS, it "just works".

Screen_Shot_2016-08-10_at_18_26_11.png.f68e41b3fa7fed2cae784fcf5dece6aa.png

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Erm, with an all Mac network, why are you even bothering with Workgroups?

IIRC, WORKGROUPS is what Apple uses as a default. I don't actually have any use for it really AFAIK.

 

Then how did you become aware that SMB wasn't working?          (I have NFS and SMB setup on my Media players (they all run Linux) and I never realized for a couple of months that I had not turned NFS 'ON' on my MEDIA server when I ungraded from ver 5 to ver 6 until a couple of months later when I was testing something out that required the use of NFS.  If I had been trying to use for some unrelated reason to media streaming, I still wouldn't know it!)

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Then how did you become aware that SMB wasn't working?

I have some of the SMB shares mounted on my desktop. When the connection was lost to the mounted shares Finder popup a warning that the connection had been lost and asking if I wanted to unmount the shares.

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I don't have a Workgroup set on my Macs.

 

System Preferences -> Network -> Advanced -> WINS looks like the attached file. The NetBIOS name is automatically taken from the Computer Name.

 

I have some network shares mounted using AFP, some with SMB and one with NFS. As is supposed to be the case with Mac OS X OS X macOS, it "just works".

 

SMB is suppose to 'just work' with all OS's (Mac or otherwise).  Problem is (for many reasons) that sometimes it doesn't.  Some Windows 10 users have had some real problems lately.  But this is not an unRAID problem per say.  SMB is is technically a MS File Transfer Protocol and they control the actual spec (if one exists) and they made some changes with Windows 10.  The SAMBA group has written a SMB emulator for Linux (and perhaps some other OS's) and they are currently playing catch-up (again)!   

 

Most of the unRAID users run SMB in its simplest form with a minimum of security.  (Remember, every computer running SMB can be both a Client and a Server at the same time! In fact, this was the initial premise under which SMB was developed--- Windows for Workgroups.  Last time, I checked, you could still connect to a SMB network with a computer running Windows for Workgroups 3.1)  Problems often arise when folks use PC's that are expecting a higher level of security.  (IT folks at large corporations don't want their laptops joining unknown workgroups and perhaps sharing data folders willy-nilly at the local Starbucks.)  unRAID does provide for higher levels of security but it takes some study and effort on the part of the users to implement it.

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Then how did you become aware that SMB wasn't working?

I have some of the SMB shares mounted on my desktop. When the connection was lost to the mounted shares Finder popup a warning that the connection had been lost and asking if I wanted to unmount the shares.

 

So you are using SMB even if you are not aware of it.  (I thought that I had read that Apple is moving away from (or stopping development of) AFP and going to SMB as the primary file transfer protocol.  Perhaps, they are even making it the default.  I also seem to recall that there is one Apple program (a backup program(?) ) that still only works with AFP.  Apparently, everyone is moving to SMB because it is so prevalent in the corporate world.) 

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