Recommended controllers for Unraid

[ChatNoir]

50 minutes ago, dopeytree said:

unlikely to be reading that from 6 drives at once. 

Until the first parity check/build.

[dopeytree]

4x traditional sata drives (not SSD!!) would be acceptable on PCIe gen3 x1 because 900MB/s ÷ 4 = 225MB/s which is on par with the fastest spinning drives.

 

I'm running 3x traditional sata's & 1x sata SSD and seems ok so far. The SSD is part of a mirror cache pool with the other half connected to motherboard.

 

 

https://www.fullexposure.photography/how-fast-is-pcie-4-0-nvme-vs-pcie-3-0/#:~:text=But the biggest benefit of,(31.52 Gb%2Fs).

Edited October 3, 2022 by dopeytree

[klor]

Is any of the following cards using sata port multiplier? 

 

PCI-E Sata Adapter 4X PCIE Sata PCI Express Expansion Card with 10 Ports PCIE3.0 (using ASM1166+JMB585 chipset):

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOKtbzq

 

Another nominate card could be this one:

PCIE SATA Card SATA 3.0 PCIe Card, PCIe To SATA Controller Expansion Card with 16 Ports (using ASM1064 x 4 chipset):

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mK9YdS0

 

There said, cards with sata port multiplier should be avoided. 

Is there any specific reason? 

Perhaps because of the bandwidth? 

Edited October 6, 2022 by klor

[klor]

On 10/3/2022 at 7:49 AM, ChatNoir said:

Your motherboard already have 6 SATA ports, do you mean 6 additional disks ?

Yes, but I plan to hang all disks on the same card. Should work all disks, or nothing. Just imagine the situation, that 6 disk are attached to the SATA xard, 2 to the motherboard SATA. If the card is broken, then suddenly 6 disks will be missing, 2 will be still available, which will result unwanted situation.

[klor]

On 10/3/2022 at 7:49 AM, ChatNoir said:

without some kind of port multiplier

I still don't get why the port multiplier should be avoided.

[klor]

On 10/3/2022 at 6:01 PM, dopeytree said:

Does depend on what drives you're hooking up

I use traditional SATA drives. 

[trurl]

7 hours ago, klor said:

I still don't get why the port multiplier should be avoided.

Parity checks and disk rebuilds require simultaneous access of all disks so multiplier will slow things down a lot.

[klor]

6 hours ago, trurl said:

Parity checks and disk rebuilds require simultaneous access of all disks so multiplier will slow things down a lot.

I understand. 

So SATA multiplier affects performance, when parity checks and disk rebuilds are done.Thanks! 

 

I'm thinking, if my mentioned cards are using SATA multiplier or not. 

PCI-E 4X 10 Port SATA Card with PCIE3.0 (using ASM1166+JMB585 chipset):

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOKtbzq

ASM1166 chipset supports 6 SATA disks:

https://www.asmedia.com.tw/product/45aYq54sP8Qh7WH8/58dYQ8bxZ4UR9wG5

 

JMB585 chipset supports 5 SATA disks:

https://www.jmicron.com/products/list/15

 

So I suppose this card supports natively 10 SATA ports without multiplier.

Am I right? 

 

[JorgeB]

10 hours ago, klor said:

using ASM1166+JMB585 chipset

That looks like an extremely unlikely combo, bet it's the  ASM1166+JMB575 which is a SATA port multiplier.

[klor]

27 minutes ago, JorgeB said:

That looks like an extremely unlikely combo, bet it's the  ASM1166+JMB575 which is a SATA port multiplier.

I understand now. 

Thanks! 

 

[klor]

Which is the cheapest card you still recommend, with at least 8 SATA ports?

[JorgeB]

An LSI 9211-8i or similar, they can be found pretty cheap used on ebay.

[dopeytree]

Just future proofing...  is there any LSI card that would make use of a 16x slot for bandwidth?

 

If you factor in below it would give 4GB/s on gen1 x16 so 500MB/s if we go for a 8port sas card. If not then x8 would dish out speed to cope with spinning drives but not 8x SSDs.

 

I ask because on many motherboards when using the 2nd m.2 slot the gen3 x16 card becomes a gen1 x16 card and the 2nd m2 becomes a gen2 instead of gen3.

The gen4 x16 slot has a graphics card in.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by dopeytree

[JorgeB]

the gen3 x16 card becomes a gen1 x16 card

Never seen something like that, it can have fewer lanes, it won't change the PCIe generation.

[klor]

On 10/7/2022 at 10:30 AM, JorgeB said:

An LSI 9211-8i or similar, they can be found pretty cheap used on ebay.

I did read, that LSI cards are getting very hot and needs additional cooling, because the attached factory heatsink is not enough. 

 

What is the experience? 

Does it cause problems, if only the original heatsink is used? 

 

[JorgeB]

Original heatsink if fine if you have overall good airflow in the case, obviously including the zone where the controller is, if using a tower style case a large side fan can also be a good solution.

[klor]

17 minutes ago, JorgeB said:

Original heatsink if fine if you have overall good airflow in the case

I use Thermaltake Armor tower case.

It does not seem to be possible to attach side fan:

https://www.newegg.com/amp/black-thermaltake-armor-series-atx-full-tower/p/N82E16811133154

 

[JorgeB]

Like mentioned good overall case airflow is enough, I have a couple like that, but more direct airflow is better.

[klor]

2 hours ago, JorgeB said:

I have a couple like that, but more direct airflow is better.

How do you detect overheating of an LSI card? 

Is there thermometer sensor implemented, which can be read by drivers or firmware?

 

[JorgeB]

1 hour ago, klor said:

Is there thermometer sensor implemented, which can be read by drivers or firmware?

Nope, touch it, if you get burned it's too hot.

[dopeytree]

Could always change the thermal pad / thermal paste behind the heatsink.

 

But as @JorgeB says airflow is your best friend. Have you used all your motherboard's fan connectors at the moment?

 

Might be able to add another fan. Noctua make near silent fans

Edited October 9, 2022 by dopeytree

[dopeytree]

On 10/7/2022 at 9:22 PM, dopeytree said:

Just future proofing...  is there any LSI card that would make use of a 16x slot for bandwidth?

 

If you factor in below it would give 4GB/s on gen1 x16 so 500MB/s if we go for a 8port sas card. If not then x8 would dish out speed to cope with spinning drives but not 8x SSDs.

 

I ask because on many motherboards when using the 2nd m.2 slot the gen3 x16 card becomes a gen1 x16 card and the 2nd m2 becomes a gen2 instead of gen3.

The gen4 x16 slot has a graphics card in.

 

 

On 10/8/2022 at 9:12 AM, JorgeB said:

Never seen something like that, it can have fewer lanes, it won't change the PCIe generation.
 

 

@JorgeB could I get your take away from the spec sheet.

 

Is it saying that the 2nd x16 is actually a x4

and when used with a 2nd m.2 the 2nd x16 (but actually x4) becomes a x1 slot?

Where would that leave me bandwidth wise.

It's a pcie 3.0 slot so a x1 would be 984.6 MB/s..

 

If thats the sacrifice it's not worth running the 2nd m.2 nvme right? better running a LSI card at x4 and chuck a sata ssd in there for 1st nvme's mirror?

[klor]

9 hours ago, dopeytree said:

Have you used all your motherboard's fan connectors at the moment?

 

Might be able to add another fan.

Motherboard has more free fan connectors.

But the tower case has no place to screw another fan onto the side of the case, which could blow air to the cards from top direction. 

 

I'm thinking on top cooling fan like this:

Vertical heat dissipation of North South Bridge, Support 12cm 14cm cooling fan:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtUjYPK

This might be placed over the LSI card to provide further cooling. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by klor

[JorgeB]

17 hours ago, dopeytree said:

Is it saying that the 2nd x16 is actually a x4

Correct, and it's a PCH slot, i.e., it shares the DMI bandwidth with the onboard SATA controller, one m.2 slot, other PCIe slots, etc.

 

17 hours ago, dopeytree said:

and when used with a 2nd m.2 the 2nd x16 (but actually x4) becomes a x1 slot?

Yes, if the m.2 slot is set to x2.

 

[klor]

Anybody has experience with NEC N8103-150 (LSI 9271-8i) RAID card? 

Available on Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384844864669

Price seems to be good for $35.

 

Product info is available from here:

https://www.58support.nec.co.jp/global/download/pdf/NECRAIDControllerR1.0.pdf
 

Should I try this one?

Not sure, if I should go with NEC one or wait for an original LSI one.