WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) Hi.  I am in the process of building a new Unraid server.  Due do some recommendation, which I cannot find anymore, I got the HP 4K1135 (468405-002) SAS Expander card.  I tried using it with the correct cables I hope - Mini SAS 36P SFF-8087 to 4 SATA 7Pin.  But neither the BIOS nor Unraid does see anything. Now as I am examining the card closer, it has four ports labeled with "TO BACKPLANE". My card seems to be this card: image.  I initially ordered the wrong cables - Mini SAS (SFF-8643 Host) to 4X SATA (Target) -  and as I saw my mistake I researched a bit more and found the correct cables, but that there are also cables to connect this card's ports to backplanes.  Now I am confused, as I might have gotten the wrong card or I am using it wrong.  I also saw mentioning of "flashing it to IT mode" to be able to use it. That might be out of my league though, but I can try, I cannot return the used card anyway. have  My older Unraid server does use four 4-Way SATA PCIe x1 Marvell 88SE9215, though it has a not recommended Marvel chipset. I am using two of those cars now on my newer server to set it up, I just wanted to to have one card for my 16 HDDs.  Can anyone point me in the correct direction?   It is all a bit overwhelming compared to the first server I built four years ago. I also want to use 2.5 Gb ethernet, but that will be a whole other journey.  Edited May 10, 2022 by WhiteTowerBlackNode syntax Quote Link to comment
BlinkerFluid Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) That is a sas expander. It is powered by pcie but doesn't show up in post or anything as it is a dumb device using pcie just to power itself. You also need a sas card to go with it. Think of it like a network switch. You still need an ethernet card to interface with it. You run the sas cable or cables from pcie sas card into expander using any ports you want and from expander any still available ports out to the drives (unless the expander tells you which ones to use). You are going to need a pcie sas card that can be flashed to IT mode to go with it. Sas 6 are pretty cheap the m1015 are what a lot of us have run but you can check back through this topic to see what recommended devices are. I have a 9300-8e (Sas 12)   Edited May 10, 2022 by BlinkerFluid Quote Link to comment
WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 13 hours ago, BlinkerFluid said: That is a sas expander. It is powered by pcie but doesn't show up in post or anything as it is a dumb device using pcie just to power itself. You also need a sas card to go with it. Think of it like a network switch. You still need an ethernet card to interface with it. You run the sas cable or cables from pcie sas card into expander using any ports you want and from expander any still available ports out to the drives (unless the expander tells you which ones to use). You are going to need a pcie sas card that can be flashed to IT mode to go with it. Sas 6 are pretty cheap the m1015 are what a lot of us have run but you can check back through this topic to see what recommended devices are. I have a 9300-8e (Sas 12)   Thanks for the reply. in other words, I need an extra SAS only card and connect both cards internally using what cable and what port on the expander? The expander card also has an external port. Can the extra SAS card live with the short PCIe or does it also need a longer slot?  i only have two long PCIe slots and two short ones. Quote Link to comment
BlinkerFluid Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: Thanks for the reply. in other words, I need an extra SAS only card and connect both cards internally using what cable and what port on the expander? The expander card also has an external port. Can the extra SAS card live with the short PCIe or does it also need a longer slot?  i only have two long PCIe slots and two short ones.  yes. There is no way to interface with your drives without a sas card. The expander doesn't provide anything other than making more sas ports for you to connect stuff up with The expander card can just be put in whatever slot it fits in. The smaller the better as it literally is only getting power from the pcie slot. You don't need to use the external port for it at all. Just connect your sas card into whatever expander port is easiest. Sounds like you want to go sas internal 8087 to sas internal 8087 Edited May 11, 2022 by BlinkerFluid Quote Link to comment
WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, BlinkerFluid said:  yes. There is no way to interface with your drives without a sas card. The expander doesn't provide anything other than making more sas ports for you to connect stuff up with The expander card can just be put in whatever slot it fits in. The smaller the better as it literally is only getting power from the pcie slot. You don't need to use the external port for it at all. Just connect your sas card into whatever expander port is easiest. Sounds like you want to go sas internal 8087 to sas internal 8087 Thanks.  All links to German Ebay and Amazon.  I think I found such a card. LSI 9207-4i4e 6G PCIe x8 is the name and it is also in IT mode. German Ebay link: LSI 9207-4i4e 6G PCIe x8 3.0 Gebraucht SAS SATA HBA IT Mode FreeNas Avago 4i4e probably means 4 internal and 4 external SATA devices. Or do I need to get an internal only card like this: RAID HBA LSI Megaraid 9211-8i 6G PCIe x8 Gebraucht SAS SATA IT Mode m1015   According to the first page of this thread, the 9207 cards are supported.  And then I just need to get this cable: Internal Mini SAS 36pin SFF-8087 to Mini-SAS 36pin SFF-8087 Server Hard Drive Raid Data Cable  When I have that card and that cable, I then connect the internal SAS port to the "To Controller" port of the expander card? What about the "TO BACKPLANE" ports of that expander card? Do they only work with backplanes? Even if so, I would still have 4 ports available for 16 drives and also have 4 internal SATA ports on the MB.  As for this part in the OP: Quote 8 ports: any LSI with a SAS2008/2308/3008/3408 chipset in IT mode, e.g., 9201-8i, 9211-8i, 9207-8i, 9300-8i, 9400-8i, etc and clones, like the Dell H200/H310 and IBM M1015, these latter ones need to be crossflashed (most of these require a x8 or x16 slot, older models like the 9201-8i and 9211-8i are PCIe 2.0, newer models like the 9207-8i, 9300-8i and newer are PCIe 3.0) Do I understand that correctly, that IT mode does suffice for "SAS2008/2308/3008/3408 chipset in IT mode, e.g., 9201-8i, 9211-8i, 9207-8i, 9300-8i, 9400-8i, etc".  But when I get these cards, "Dell H200/H310 and IBM M1015", they need to be cross flashed. Or does the cross flashing apply to the the 9201 to 9400 cards as well?   Thanks again, I think I begin to slowly understand those cars much better.  Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 11, 2022 Author Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: 4i4e probably means 4 internal and 4 external SATA devices. Correct, and it's already in IT mode, which is the default for that model. Â 3 minutes ago, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: And then I just need to get this cable Yes. Â 3 minutes ago, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: When I have that card and that cable, I then connect the internal SAS port to the "To Controller" port of the expander card? What about the "TO BACKPLANE" ports of that expander card? You can connect the HBA to any of the ports, it works like a switch. Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 31 minutes ago, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: Can the extra SAS card live with the short PCIe or does it also need a longer slot? Some expanders have power connectors and don't even need to be connected to a slot at all, it's just there to provide a convenient mounting location and power if needed. Â Quote Link to comment
WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 23 hours ago, JorgeB said: Correct, and it's already in IT mode, which is the default for that model. Â Yes. Â You can connect the HBA to any of the ports, it works like a switch. Thanks. I will report back once that card and the cable arrives. Quote Link to comment
WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 23 hours ago, JonathanM said: Some expanders have power connectors and don't even need to be connected to a slot at all, it's just there to provide a convenient mounting location and power if needed. Â The only connectors I found were on the top left near port 2C and the one on the bottom left close to the slot metal: image. Is there a power port? Or could one get a 15-pin SATA to PCIe adapter for power? Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 12, 2022 Author Share Posted May 12, 2022 Just now, WhiteTowerBlackNode said: Is there a power port? Not for that expander, it's powered by the PCIe interface. Quote Link to comment
WhiteTowerBlackNode Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, JorgeB said: Not for that expander, it's powered by the PCIe interface. Okay. Thanks for clearing that up.  Have a good day. Quote Link to comment
HDT Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Hello, I'm new to UNRAID. Â My current PC has this controller: Â LSI Logic SAS9260-8I SGL Raid 8PORT Int 6GB SAS/sata Pcie 2.0 512MB Â Will I be able to use this device or will I have to buy a new controller? Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 14 hours ago, HDT said: Will I be able to use this device or will I have to buy a new controller? That's a MegaRAID controller with no IT mode option, you can use it but it's not recommended, there will likely be several issues, like not possible to connect the devices to a different controller if that one fails without doing a new config or possibly rebuilding all the disks in the array, no spin down, possibly no SMART and temps, etc 1 Quote Link to comment
sailingbikeruk Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 I am a bit befuddled by some of the technology discussed here ... its a long time since I bought a disk controller and they were IDE back then  This one appears to be an ASM1166 chipset delivering 6 x SATA ports ... I can't see any reference to a port splitter or a Marvell Controller could someone give their opinion before I splash out please. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B097RBLM9G/?coliid=I2K10J0Y5GL5K8&colid=314IUN0K3IVY2&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1  Thanks 2 Quote Link to comment
Gragorg Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, sailingbikeruk said: I am a bit befuddled by some of the technology discussed here ... its a long time since I bought a disk controller and they were IDE back then  This one appears to be an ASM1166 chipset delivering 6 x SATA ports ... I can't see any reference to a port splitter or a Marvell Controller could someone give their opinion before I splash out please. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B097RBLM9G/?coliid=I2K10J0Y5GL5K8&colid=314IUN0K3IVY2&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1  Thanks Yes this card should be ready to go. If you are using SSD drives with this you may want to opt for x4 model. 1 Quote Link to comment
sailingbikeruk Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) On 5/17/2022 at 12:22 AM, Gragorg said: If you are using SSD drives with this you may want to opt for x4 model. Thank you for the reply.  It seems the pcie slots on the motherboard might not support x4, I’m away presently, but will double check. I am building this on the cheap with recovered or second user bits I’ve acquired wherever possible. I’m only buying this because the NVMe slot shares a channel with two SATA ports.  is it reasonable to assume that I can swap the current spinning disks to this controller and put the SSD onto the onboard ports without breaking the array if the MB doesn’t support x4? Edited May 18, 2022 by sailingbikeruk Quote Link to comment
Gragorg Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 On 5/18/2022 at 5:14 AM, sailingbikeruk said:  is it reasonable to assume that I can swap the current spinning disks to this controller and put the SSD onto the onboard ports without breaking the array if the MB doesn’t support x4? The drives are assigned by the drive id so the specific sata port won't matter. Should work fine. Quote Link to comment
sailingbikeruk Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Just to confirm and close this thread, I bought the 1x version as that was all I could use on my MB ... it worked without issue and all disks were displayed immediately (and I've since added the SSD), so I now have:  5 x HDD 2 x Sata SSD 1 x NVMe  Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment
Logopeden Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 Hello  Might i get som help? Define 7 XL Planing to use 15 drives (been reading on the post but my head is spinning at this point) what HBA do i go for ? i got 1 8x PciE 3 lane free. (can this be done)    Quote Link to comment
HDT Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 (edited) May an expert weigh in on if this one will work? LSI S2308 6Gbs PCI-E3.0 FW: P20 LSI 9207-8i IT Mode For ZFS FreeNAS unRAID US  This seller offers 3 variants of the 9207-8i: $63.88 = LSI $49.88 = NEC $36.98 = IBM Free S/H for each  Not sure what exactly the difference will be between LSI vs NEC vs IBM? Maybe different quality manufacturing and components? The LSI is almost 2x the cost of the IBM. Maybe an engineer in this field can weigh in?  The seller also has packages with 2 included  8087 SATA Cables for $10 more.  This model seems like the best candidate according to this page:   Speed tested here:  Quote LSI 9207-8i PCIe gen3 x8 (4800MB/s) - 9w - LSI 2308 chipset 8 x 565MB/s  Edited May 29, 2022 by HDT Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 29, 2022 Author Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, HDT said: This seller offers 3 variants of the 9207-8i: All should work the same, assuming they are flash to IT mode. 1 Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 29, 2022 Author Share Posted May 29, 2022 On 5/28/2022 at 1:09 PM, Logopeden said: Planing to use 15 drives (been reading on the post but my head is spinning at this point) what HBA do i go for ? Do you need a HBA for the 15 drives or will you also be using onboard SATA? Quote Link to comment
Logopeden Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 On 5/29/2022 at 9:06 PM, JorgeB said: Do you need a HBA for the 15 drives or will you also be using onboard SATA?  I Plan to use the HBA for the 15 drives. Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted June 1, 2022 Author Share Posted June 1, 2022 13 minutes ago, Logopeden said: I Plan to use the HBA for the 15 drives. There are some recommended models on the first post:  Quote If more ports are needed you can use multiple controllers, controllers with more ports (there are 16 and 24 port LSI HBAs, like the 9201-16i, 9305-16i, 9305-24i, etc) or use one LSI HBA connected to a SAS expander, like the Intel RES2SV240 or HP SAS expander.  Quote Link to comment
Logopeden Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 18 hours ago, JorgeB said: If more ports are needed you can use multiple controllers, controllers with more ports (there are 16 and 24 port LSI HBAs, like the 9201-16i, 9305-16i, 9305-24i, etc) or use one LSI HBA connected to a SAS expander, like the Intel RES2SV240 or HP SAS expander. Thank for helping ease my mind, just order Broadcom 9305-24i Quote Link to comment
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