Raj's Prototype Designs [Discussion Thread]

[trevisthomas]

My unRAID server is aging.  Been running on largely scavenged hardware 24x7 for a number of years.  I'm starting to think of building a new server from scratch and stumbled into Raj's Prototypes which looks fantastic.  Thanks for sharing all of your hard work. 

 

I have a couple of questions. Why is the AMD Sempron 140 so popular?  Is it just a sweet price point for the performance level?

 

Also, i'm struggling to find the best MB for this CPU that is known to be unRAID compatible. I'd like to shop from amazon or newegg and these low end components are all so close to the end of their lives that they seem to sell out as soon as you find one.  I saw mention of the Foxconn A74ML-K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186188&Tpk=Foxconn%20A74ML-K) seems ok.  I'd rather 6 onboard sata ports but i am now thinking of going with one of the SAS 8x cards and just not using the onboard ports at all. 

 

Anyone have a MB suggestion that is known to work and is available at newegg or amazon?

[Rajahal]

I have a couple of questions. Why is the AMD Sempron 140 so popular?  Is it just a sweet price point for the performance level?

 

Exactly, and it is also relatively low power as well, something for which you usually pay a premium.

 

Also, i'm struggling to find the best MB for this CPU that is known to be unRAID compatible. I'd like to shop from amazon or newegg and these low end components are all so close to the end of their lives that they seem to sell out as soon as you find one.  I saw mention of the Foxconn A74ML-K (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186188&Tpk=Foxconn%20A74ML-K) seems ok.  I'd rather 6 onboard sata ports but i am now thinking of going with one of the SAS 8x cards and just not using the onboard ports at all. 

 

Anyone have a MB suggestion that is known to work and is available at newegg or amazon?

 

The Foxconn you linked looks good if you are OK with maxing out at 12 drives.  I just bought one of these (on sale) with a 12 drive server in mind.  DDR3 RAM is cheaper at the moment, so the total comes out about the same.  The board I bought is currently untested, but the 880G chipset has been doing well in other boards.

 

I don't think the perfect budget board exists on Newegg or Amazon right now.  The perfect board features:

6+ SATA slots

DDR3 RAM compatibility (since it is cheaper)

Onboard video

Onboard Gigabit NIC (not Atheros)

Priced under $50

 

Let me know if you find one with all those features.

[trevisthomas]

.... here's where i am at the moment:

 

CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply

2x NORCO SS-500 5 Bay SATA / SAS Hot Swap Rack Module

Lexar JumpDrive FireFly 2GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model LJDFF2GBASBNA

Foxconn A74ML-K AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

AZZA Helios 910 Black Japanese SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller

2x 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M 1 unit of 0.5m Multi-lane Internal (SFF-8087) Serial ATA breakout cable, HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N6/2G

2x HITACHI Deskstar 5K3000 HDS5C3020ALA632 (0F12117) 2TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor SDX140HBGQBOX

 

That's about 850 dollars total. 

 

Any thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

 

 

My objective here is to get started with 3 hdd's copy the data from my old unRaid box and then move a few of the newer/larger drives from the old array to this new one. 

 

Questions i have:

-Should i be getting a different type of ram? Dual channel?

-Is there any value in having a faster hdd for parity?

-I guess that the SAS controller will run 8 SATA drives, (is SAS in your builds because of performance?  I'd never even heard of them until finding your thread)

-So is that Foxconn board essentially limited to a 12 drive setup because it only has one 16x port?

 

If i were game to grab the mb from somewhere other than amazon or newegg... what's your current go to board for the AMD Sempron? What if i wanted the option to add a 2nd SAS controller? does that put me into the Supermicro 190 dollar area?

 

Thanks a ton in advance...

[jdwoods]

5 Drive Budget Box

Mobo: BIOSTAR A760G M2+

CPU: AMD Sempron 140

RAM: Kingston 2GB DDR2 800

PSU: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W

Case: AZZA Helios 910

Hot Swap Drive Bays: Norco SS-500

Hard Drives: Green drives (5400 rpm or 5900 rpm), such as WD Green, Hitachi CoolSpin, Samsung EcoGreen, and Seagate LP

Cost: $360 + shipping + cost of hard drives

Capacity: 8 TB

Expandability: Expandable to the 15 Drive Budget Box with replacement of the power supply.

 

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

[prostuff1]

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

[Rajahal]

-Should i be getting a different type of ram? Dual channel?

 

I prefer single channel as it allows you to expand later with ease if you should ever decide to do so.

 

-Is there any value in having a faster hdd for parity?

 

In the vast majority of cases, no.  The only time it will come in handy is if you are writing to multiple data disks at once.  If you use a cache drive then it will make no difference at all.  I would suggest sticking with all green drives to save power, heat, and money.

 

-I guess that the SAS controller will run 8 SATA drives, (is SAS in your builds because of performance?  I'd never even heard of them until finding your thread)

 

Right, it will support up to 8 drives.  SAS makes no difference in performance since the drives themselves can't even use up all the bandwidth.  They are basically just a matter of convenience - the SASLP cards are readily available, cheap(ish), proven, and work well.  The breakout cables can help you maintain cable clutter (I recommend zip-tying them together to act like one big cable).

 

-So is that Foxconn board essentially limited to a 12 drive setup because it only has one 16x port?

 

Right.  Technically you can get up to 14 drives if you add a 2 port PCIe x 1 card.  If you see yourself expanding past 14 drives some day, then I recommend getting a different board now.

 

If i were game to grab the mb from somewhere other than amazon or newegg... what's your current go to board for the AMD Sempron?

 

My current go-to board is the Biostar A760G M2+, it maxes out at 16 drives.  I prefer to buy it from ChipsDigitalPC, but as they are currently sold out, I would go to the eBay dealer.

 

What if i wanted the option to add a 2nd SAS controller? does that put me into the Supermicro 190 dollar area?

 

There are a few cheaper options in the $100 range, but not many.  This Jetway is probably the most tried and true at the moment.

 

Thanks a ton in advance...

 

My pleasure.

 

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

 

Agreed.

[jdwoods]

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

 

Agreed.

 

Thank you for the quick replies.

Looking for a processor with AM2/AM2+ socket is kind of difficult on NewEgg. Any suggestions? Or maybe I'm so n00b that I am blind to the right options... 

[trevisthomas]

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

 

Agreed.

Woah, woah... multi-core CPU's in an unRAID server boost concurrent throughput? I thought that it was a single threaded app?

[trevisthomas]

Speaking of Jetway... what about this one?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153201&cm_re=amd_motherboard_880-_-13-153-201-_-Product

 

It's a little more expensive but 6x onboard sata + 2x PCIex16's

 

 

 

[vexhold]

That is the Jetway they are refering to.

[prostuff1]

Woah, woah... multi-core CPU's in an unRAID server boost concurrent throughput? I thought that it was a single threaded app?

unRAID itself is.  The apps he was talking about running along with it though would greatly benefit from the added horsepower.  Crashplan encrypts data before sending it, can be CPU heavy.  Sickbeard et al will benefit when the time comes to unrar the downloads. Any other stuff he adds later will benefit also.

 

I installed a Quad core CPU in my machine in preparation for an upgrade.  I am already running Crashplan, Transmission, iStat.  I plan to install VMWare and a few other things.

[swells]

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

 

Agreed.

 

Thank you for the quick replies.

Looking for a processor with AM2/AM2+ socket is kind of difficult on NewEgg. Any suggestions? Or maybe I'm so n00b that I am blind to the right options... 

 

IIRC, a socket AM3 cpu will work in a AM2/AM2+ motherboard. AM3 has both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers. It does not work the other way around though for the same reason. A socket AM2 CPU would lack the memory controller to run on a AM3 motherboard.

[trevisthomas]

Woah, woah... multi-core CPU's in an unRAID server boost concurrent throughput? I thought that it was a single threaded app?

unRAID itself is.  The apps he was talking about running along with it though would greatly benefit from the added horsepower.  Crashplan encrypts data before sending it, can be CPU heavy.  Sickbeard et al will benefit when the time comes to unrar the downloads. Any other stuff he adds later will benefit also.

 

I installed a Quad core CPU in my machine in preparation for an upgrade.  I am already running Crashplan, Transmission, iStat.  I plan to install VMWare and a few other things.

Ah, ok that makes sense.  Thanks.

[Rajahal]

Is this build sufficient to run sabnzb, sickbeard, couchpotato, crashplan, and/or time machine as well as stream 1080p content to one or two HTPCs?

If not, does it need more ram or a more powerful mobo/processor combo?

Appreciate the input.

I would upgrade the processor to a dual core version, that should be good enough.

 

Agreed.

 

Thank you for the quick replies.

Looking for a processor with AM2/AM2+ socket is kind of difficult on NewEgg. Any suggestions? Or maybe I'm so n00b that I am blind to the right options... 

 

IIRC, a socket AM3 cpu will work in a AM2/AM2+ motherboard. AM3 has both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers. It does not work the other way around though for the same reason. A socket AM2 CPU would lack the memory controller to run on a AM3 motherboard.

 

That is correct, and AM3 CPUs are abundant and cheap.

[teamhood]

Raj,

 

FYI these 80mm fans fit the back 2 Norco 4224 PERFECTLY and are very, very quiet

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103071&Tpk=Cooler%20Master%20BladeMaster%2080mm

[Rajahal]

Raj,

 

FYI these 80mm fans fit the back 2 Norco 4224 PERFECTLY and are very, very quiet

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103071&Tpk=Cooler%20Master%20BladeMaster%2080mm

 

Thanks!  You might want to add that suggestion to this thread as well.

[jdwoods]

Any input on any low cost alternatives to the Biostar A760G?

They seem pretty much all snapped up... I just lost an auction for one

[Rajahal]

I'm working on some new alternatives as we speak, but I won't recommend anything until I've gotten through all my testing.  I wouldn't expect to have a new 'go to' budget board picked for at least another month.  Sorry, but testing takes time.  As a generic bit of advice, some of the 880G chipset boards have been doing very well with unRAID, while others have not.  Search the motherboard forum for '880G' and you can start doing some research there.

 

If you need to buy something today, then I can recommend this board.  It is very similar to the A760G, just physically larger, has a slightly newer chipset, and is not quite as cheap.  As you can see, quantities of that board are quite limited as well, so I'm not going to bother updating my builds with it as it will be unavailable before too long as well.

[KYThrill]

.... here's where i am at the moment:

 

CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W ATX12V Active PFC Power Supply

2x NORCO SS-500 5 Bay SATA / SAS Hot Swap Rack Module

Lexar JumpDrive FireFly 2GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive Model LJDFF2GBASBNA

Foxconn A74ML-K AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

AZZA Helios 910 Black Japanese SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

SUPERMICRO AOC-SASLP-MV8 PCI Express x4 Low Profile SAS SAS RAID Controller

2x 3ware CBL-SFF8087OCF-05M 1 unit of 0.5m Multi-lane Internal (SFF-8087) Serial ATA breakout cable, HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N6/2G

2x HITACHI Deskstar 5K3000 HDS5C3020ALA632 (0F12117) 2TB SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor SDX140HBGQBOX

 

That's about 850 dollars total. 

 

Any thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

 

 

My objective here is to get started with 3 hdd's copy the data from my old unRaid box and then move a few of the newer/larger drives from the old array to this new one. 

 

Questions i have:

-Should i be getting a different type of ram? Dual channel?

-Is there any value in having a faster hdd for parity?

-I guess that the SAS controller will run 8 SATA drives, (is SAS in your builds because of performance?  I'd never even heard of them until finding your thread)

-So is that Foxconn board essentially limited to a 12 drive setup because it only has one 16x port?

 

If i were game to grab the mb from somewhere other than amazon or newegg... what's your current go to board for the AMD Sempron? What if i wanted the option to add a 2nd SAS controller? does that put me into the Supermicro 190 dollar area?

 

Thanks a ton in advance...

 

I'm building a 20 drive Sempron 145 server that will run 24/7, so energy efficiency was the primary concern.

 

I went with the MSI NF750-G55 motherboard.  You can get it a MWave for $65 and there is a $20 mail in rebate.  It has two PCIe x16, two PCIe x1 and one PCI slot.  The x16 slots than run either x16/x0 or x8/x8.  It also has onboard video, so you can run two SAS controller is the x16 slots.  It has 1Gb ethernet off a Realtek controller. It also has 5 SATA ports onboard and 1 eSATA on the motherboard.  So with two Supermicro cards and the onboard SATA, you can do 21 drives (20 in the hot swap bays of a Norco 4220 +1 2.5" cache drive internally mounted).  Add two more x1 SATA controllers and you can do 25 drives.

 

My parts are all still in the mail, so hopefully the build works out.  Occasionally there is a motherboard that won't run anything other than a video card in the x16 slots, but so far I've never encountered that problem with any motherboard I've tried.  I hope this won't be a first.

 

A Sempron 145 may also have enough power to do what you want it to do.  I had been using an older Core 2 Duo E6300 and easily running several add-ons (and nowhere near fully loading the CPU, not even half loading).    According to all the benchmarks I've seen, the Sempron 145 only has about 20% less processing power than a E6300, so I don't forsee any problems for me.  Which I don't do any on-the-fly transcoding, or other CPU intensive task, so maybe if you really want to do enough to peg out a dual core, the Sempron may not work.  There is also a second core in a Sempron 100 series CPU and many people are able to unlock them.  If you have a 145 running dual core, it actually has more CPU power than the E6300, but you can never bank on unlocking a second core.

[KYThrill]

I'm building a 20 drive Sempron 145 server that will run 24/7, so energy efficiency was the primary concern.

 

I went with the MSI NF750-G55 motherboard.  You can get it a MWave for $65 and there is a $20 mail in rebate.   It has two PCIe x16, two PCIe x1 and one PCI slot.  The x16 slots than run either x16/x0 or x8/x8.  It also has onboard video, so you can run two SAS controller is the x16 slots.  It has 1Gb ethernet off a Realtek controller. It also has 5 SATA ports onboard and 1 eSATA on the motherboard.  So with two Supermicro cards and the onboard SATA, you can do 21 drives (20 in the hot swap bays of a Norco 4220 +1 2.5" cache drive internally mounted).  Add two more x1 SATA controllers and you can do 25 drives.

 

My parts are all still in the mail, so hopefully the build works out.  Occasionally there is a motherboard that won't run anything other than a video card in the x16 slots, but so far I've never encountered that problem with any motherboard I've tried.  I hope this won't be a first.

 

A Sempron 145 may also have enough power to do what you want it to do.  I had been using an older Core 2 Duo E6300 and easily running several add-ons (and nowhere near fully loading the CPU, not even half loading).    According to all the benchmarks I've seen, the Sempron 145 only has about 20% less processing power than a E6300, so I don't forsee any problems for me.  Which I don't do any on-the-fly transcoding, or other CPU intensive task, so maybe if you really want to do enough to peg out a dual core, the Sempron may not work.  There is also a second core in a Sempron 100 series CPU and many people are able to unlock them.  If you have a 145 running dual core, it actually has more CPU power than the E6300, but you can never bank on unlocking a second core.

 

Well,

 

I've got this puppy up and singing over the past couple of days.  So far my impressions are that this is a great motherboard.  For $45 it can't be beat!  The only thing I really haven't tested yet (because I can't) is if it works with two Supermicro cards.  I only have one on hand.  I know some boards with dual PCI-E x16 slots have had conflicts in the past with two Supermicro cards (some ASUS boards I think).  I guess that might be a booger in the future (currently I just have 9 drives and won't add the second SM card until I need it).

 

I was also lucky on my Sempron 145.  It appears to have have unlocked the second core and now has much more processing power than my previous E6300.  It benchmarks at 1.75X what my E6300 did and has been stable so far.  So I have reduced power and upped my processing power, and expanded my system to be able to support 20 drives (from 12 in my old setup).  A worthy upgrade.  I'll have to create a separate build post for it once I iron out a few more changes (like moving the unRAID USB to an internal header adapter I just ordered).

 

The new system appears to consume much less power too.  Using the watt meter in my APC, my old system with the same 9 drives pulled about 110W with all drives spun-up, but idle.  In the same state on the new system, its 86W.  On a 24/7 server (which is the plan for this new iteration), that would save me about 210 kw/hrs per year, or about $21 per year in electricity in my area.  But I see an even bigger savings when all the drives are spun down, and the motherboard activates the CPU power saving features.  In this state, my old system never dropped below 90W.  But this new setup drops to 44W.  So for about 12 hours per day, I'm saving about 2X as much power, so my actual annual energy savings should be over $30 per year.  I guess I can attribute this to the lower power consumption of the processor, and the switch to a Seasonic 80 Plus Gold PSU (from an 80 Plus Bronze Antec).

[sacretagent]

kythrill

 

no issues with the nic on this board ?

 

as it is a realtek 8111 ...

 

[KYThrill]

kythrill

 

no issues with the nic on this board ?

 

as it is a realtek 8111 ...

 

 

It uses the 8211, not the 8111.  The 8211 is listed as compatible on the wiki, and so far, I've had no problems.  The only thing I have encountered is that since it is an nForce, it uses v .62 of forcedeth as the drive.  V .62 does not support changing the MTU, so you can't use jumbo frames.  I think this was fixed in version .64 of forcedeth, but since forcedeth is in the linux kernel, the update won't be available in unRAID until unRAID updates their kernel.

[canachi]

I'm working on some new alternatives as we speak, but I won't recommend anything until I've gotten through all my testing.  I wouldn't expect to have a new 'go to' budget board picked for at least another month.  Sorry, but testing takes time.

 

Are we getting close to get new build/motherboard alternatives?. I'm just waiting for your great advice to pull the trigger.

 

Thanks in advance.

[grandprix]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153201

 

$69.95 + $8 shipping, so $78.  This has my vote for an inexpensive alternative to the BIOSTAR, which can take one all the way to the 20 drive max (+ cache + parity).

 

I've been pleased by it.  Other than a ACPI minor issue in logging, (BIOS checksum when passed onto OS, which is irrelevant for us), I'm 3 hours away from what looks like will be a successful level 2.  (The end of month parity check was planned today, just not quite how it was done --- UPS issue).

 

[Rajahal]

I'm working on some new alternatives as we speak, but I won't recommend anything until I've gotten through all my testing.  I wouldn't expect to have a new 'go to' budget board picked for at least another month.  Sorry, but testing takes time.

 

Are we getting close to get new build/motherboard alternatives?. I'm just waiting for your great advice to pull the trigger.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Sorry, I'm moving to another state, so I've had to put my testing on hold.  I should be up and running again next week.  I agree with grandprix, the JetWay JHZ03-GT-V2-LF is a great board, I just wish it were a bit cheaper.  All the boards I'm testing are in the $50 - $65 range.