What motherboard for Extra Low Power for a Sailboat

[FurrorNos]

Hello -

 

For lack of good commercially available options, I'm considering putting an unRAID server on my sailboat.

Is there an extra low power motherboard available that people have used successfully? I'm thinking something like a raspberry pi with SATA ports.

 

The goal is to have a storage device - either network attached or wired via USB - which uses a flexible RAID method like unRAID or drobo, but draws the absolute minimum current. Most of the RAID enclosures appear to only want matched drives, and the Drobo power consumption looks like it may be on the high side.

 

Thanks

-Jordan

[FurrorNos]

Maybe I'm answering my own question, but since it will only really be serving one computer is my best option a JBOD array and FlexRaid?

[FurrorNos]

I forgot to add - it needs to be 12V.

[SSD]

Maybe I'm answering my own question, but since it will only really be serving one computer is my best option a JBOD array and FlexRaid?

 

I don't think I'd want my unRAID server on a sailboat unless it was absolutely backed up on some non-sea bearing vessel! The risk of complete data loss would be too high. So if you had an unRAID server at home, and wanted to copy some files to an external USB drive that you would plug into TV or laptop on the boat to watch movies - that would be the way I'd go.

 

 

[bkastner]

I agree. I'd buy one of the many small form factor XBMC clients (Pivos, Intel NUC, Roku, etc) and pair it with one or two external USB drives and leave UnRAID at home where it belongs.

 

Even though it sounds a lot cooler being on a sailboat, I don't see this use case any different than normal travelling. When I fly somewhere I take my Pivos Xios and a 2TB 2.5inch WD drive in my laptop bag to hook up to the hotel TV (or view on my laptop if the hotel TV doesn't do HDMI).

 

Depending on what TV you have you may even be able to skip the XBMC client and just play directly from the USB drive if your TV supports it.

[FurrorNos]

To clarify - I'm selling my home and moving on to a sailboat for a few years with a goal to sail around the world.

 

Tax returns, prom pictures, etc up till now will be backed up and stored in the US, but once I'm on the boat that will be my new home. I need to assume I'll be far from cloud storage options for extended periods.

[garycase]

The ultra-low power ARM alternatives aren't likely to have more than one SATA port.    In which case you may as well just buy an external drive and connect it to the PC you're using to watch your media.  Rather than RAID, just use a 2nd identical drive and be sure you're always backed up ... effectively a "manual RAID-1" 

 

If you use USB-powered laptop external drives, you don't have to worry about a 12v supply voltage.  (although this will limit you to 2TB drives, since there aren't any larger sizes in a 2.5" drive)

 

Assuming the data you plan to take with you is mostly static (i.e. media to watch/listen to), this should work fine, since you won't need to update your backup drive very often -- and you could also keep the backups in a small watertight storage box to provide better protection.

 

[SSD]

To clarify - I'm selling my home and moving on to a sailboat for a few years with a goal to sail around the world.

 

Tax returns, prom pictures, etc up till now will be backed up and stored in the US, but once I'm on the boat that will be my new home. I need to assume I'll be far from cloud storage options for extended periods.

 

Wow! Sounds like an awesome trip of a lifetime!

 

But it is hard to advise you as I have never considered such a scenario. You are obviously looking at a relatively large boat to navigate the waters of the open sea. If you capsize losing your data is the very least of your worries.

 

I'd get a few 5T USB drives and not worry about RAID. 10 to 20T of data should hold you for a while!

 

You never did mention what you would watch or listen with.

[dmacias]

I would use a low power mini-itx atom board, several 2.5" laptop hard drives and a m2-atx 160 watt or m4-atx 250 watt power supply.  Those power supplies can run on 6-24 volts and survive engine crank. They can also be set to turn on and off with ignition. Check out mp3car.com and their forums for more ideas.

 

[jumperalex]

TL;DR: My personal thought is that you shouldn't be worried about fault tolerance (raid/unraid) but instead thinking about redundancy (multiple copies) and getting the data off the boat (cloud when possible, snail-mail when not).

 

Yeah we still need a better idea of your use case.  Chances are no one here, me least of all, has the experience to answer questions like this, but some logical thought and google goes a long way.

 

So music and videos ... losing that isn't that big of a deal and 100% the last thing you care about in case of disaster.  But for sanity, having two or three copies on plain old storage devices (type to be discussed later), with the extras stored inside a floating watertight box seems smart.  No need for raid / unraid levels of fault tolerance.  Dirt simple N redundancy seems the best course of action.

 

So the question is what exactly will you be CREATING on this trip that is SOOO important that you need to protect it since it is not available anywhere else?  Pictures and videos?  Ok fair enough. Logs/Journals?  Sounds about right.  What else?  Really, we' need you to answer this question.  Because all of that is likely to take nominal room and is best served with multiple hardened copies and then ... 

 

Now lets talk about your lack of cloud access?  do you mean ZERO or do you mean only when in port? how infrequent? Occasional satellite access?  I ask because your best bet will ALWAYS be to immediately get those non-replaceable files off the boat the first chance you get.  Depending on your tolerance for costs, you could even consider using SatCom for things like compressed logs/journals, and ZOMG-it-will-never-happen-again photos which are going to be pretty small. 

 

But lets pretend for a second that you literally will only get to a network connection twice a year and it will be slow at that.  Again, you'll want to decide on what you consider to be no-shit worth sitting there and waiting for it to upload and [drum roll] what you should be mailing back home at any/every port call because it is too big to upload.

 

Which brings me to the final bit ... the media ... you should not be thinking about anything spinning.  Solid State is your friend for size, weight, and durability.  That means THUMBDRIVES and LOTS of them.  Because those are very easy to drop in the mail and send to a friend for safe keeping.  If you are worried about security then get encrypted ones like Iron Keys (http://www.ironkey.com/en-US/) their web page even shows a guy on a sailboat!!!  If that is too much $$$, there are cheaper encrypted thumbdrives, and I think even ones that claim some level of waterproofing (I'd suggest that they still be kept in watertight floating boxes).  You can even get various different types to span your spectrum of security, durability, and affordable multiplicity needs.

[jumperalex]

For grins http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_p_n_feature_keywords_2?rh=n%3A172282%2Cn%3A%21493964%2Cn%3A541966%2Cn%3A1292110011%2Cn%3A3151491%2Cp_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin%3A5947563011%5Cc6813186011&bbn=3151491&ie=UTF8&qid=1399475262&rnid=5947559011

[vl1969]

lot's of good it gonna do him when the whole system is under water.

 

ooh  look my server and all the drives is toast but my flash drive is OK 

thank god! :'(

 

no something like this :

 

http://www.pugetsystems.com/submerged.php

OR

http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/12/puget-custom-computers-mineral-oil-cooled-pc/

 

might proof to be handy

[jumperalex]

That is why I said to keep them in floating waterproof boxes (ok maybe even depth tested boxes) but most important, get them off the boat as soon as possible.  His best bandwidth option, though also worst latency, is mailing stuff when he can't get good enough connections.

[SSD]

UnRaid hits the open seas! I see a whole new market. Maybe Tom could sponsor you. You could have a giant Limetech sail!!

[FurrorNos]

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

The main use cases are:

1) Storing entertainment media (movies and music) which will mostly be static.

2) Storing pictures and movies I make - the latter will probably start to get huge with GoPro underwater videos.

 

I think 4TB of storage would be plenty.

 

Regarding internet access - I'll probably be checking email pretty easily using a PACTOR modem or sat phone, but the data rate is too high for anything else. Its like $70 for a MB of data.

 

Having standalone drives which I manually back up occasionally is definitely a possibility, but I'd prefer something a little more hassle-free. Also I'd rather not have to root through a bunch USB external drives to find the "Game of Thrones" drive vs the complete dump of cruiserswiki.org, etc.

 

I'll only have 1 laptop on board - if I had an external case that held 4 HDDs, which all showed up as independent drives via USB (does such a product exist?) - could I run unRAID virtualized over Win8 and have it manage the drives as a redundant array? Would it tank my processing power on the laptop such that I couldn't actually use the data (i.e. watch a movie)?

[FurrorNos]

... you should not be thinking about anything spinning.  Solid State is your friend for size, weight, and durability.  That means THUMBDRIVES and LOTS of them.  Because those are very easy to drop in the mail and send to a friend for safe keeping.  If you are worried about security then get encrypted ones like Iron Keys (http://www.ironkey.com/en-US/) their web page even shows a guy on a sailboat!!!  If that is too much $$$, there are cheaper encrypted thumbdrives, and I think even ones that claim some level of waterproofing (I'd suggest that they still be kept in watertight floating boxes).  You can even get various different types to span your spectrum of security, durability, and affordable multiplicity needs.

 

While I'm not averse to spending money getting it right, $2k+ (for 4TB of SSDs) is more than I can justify for just the storage media. Is there a cheaper alternative for 4TB of non-spindle/platter media? I was hoping for something <$500 not including the drives.

 

Regarding cloud access - I'll have better internet access in port, true, but I don't anticipate docking all that much - the cost of staying in a marina regularly quickly makes cruising unaffordable. I single handed a sailboat in the Bahamas for 10 months in 2006 and I only docked when visiting friends insisted on it prior to getting on a plane the next day. I'm probably better off occasionally copying all the important new stuff onto an extra 500GB drive and mailing it to my sister in Florida.

[Ford Prefect]

....what about an external Bluray writer?

The BD-R XL media with 4 layers offer >100GB on a single media disk.

[jumperalex]

... you should not be thinking about anything spinning.  Solid State is your friend for size, weight, and durability.  That means THUMBDRIVES and LOTS of them.  Because those are very easy to drop in the mail and send to a friend for safe keeping.  If you are worried about security then get encrypted ones like Iron Keys (http://www.ironkey.com/en-US/) their web page even shows a guy on a sailboat!!!  If that is too much $$$, there are cheaper encrypted thumbdrives, and I think even ones that claim some level of waterproofing (I'd suggest that they still be kept in watertight floating boxes).  You can even get various different types to span your spectrum of security, durability, and affordable multiplicity needs.

 

While I'm not averse to spending money getting it right, $2k+ (for 4TB of SSDs) is more than I can justify for just the storage media. Is there a cheaper alternative for 4TB of non-spindle/platter media? I was hoping for something <$500 not including the drives.

 

Regarding cloud access - I'll have better internet access in port, true, but I don't anticipate docking all that much - the cost of staying in a marina regularly quickly makes cruising unaffordable. I single handed a sailboat in the Bahamas for 10 months in 2006 and I only docked when visiting friends insisted on it prior to getting on a plane the next day. I'm probably better off occasionally copying all the important new stuff onto an extra 500GB drive and mailing it to my sister in Florida.

 

Well solid state doesn't have to mean SSD.  But I'm also differentiating between your replaceable music and and videos, and the stuff you generate on the boat.  So put your media on spinners, but i still stand by you are better off with two or three external 4TB drives with the spares inside a water tight box than you are trying to make a fault tolerant NAS.  Remember that is still not a backup, it is just tolerant of a drive failure.  Well if you are only in need of about 4TB, and then have a second drive for "parity" that makes it just a mirror and that mirror is better of protect in a watertight box.  Otherwise a good power surge or water soaking and it is all still dead anyway.  Better to have a copy somewhere on board.

 

As to the Go Pro videos and pictures ... i guess the question is how worried are you about losing stuff and how often will you have the chance to at least just drop something in the mail?  I'd plan on putting your stuff in the mail every chance you get to reduce the chance of loss.  And it will be pretty cheap (and more durable) to do that with a stash of inexpensive thumb drives or even SD cards.  I would certainly not trust a spinner in INTERNATIONAL mail with data on it.

 

But again it is all a question of your desire to mitigate risk (likelihood x consequence).

 

Ford has a good idea with the writable BD for small high capacity and easy to mail storage. 

[Necrotic]

I wouldn't worry so much about low power, most of the low end CPU and green drives will be good enough for you. The marginal difference isn't that much honestly and you most likely won't run this 24/7 right? Your biggest issue may be humidity and airborne salt, in the tropics its like cancer to electrical equipment so I wouldn't expect more than 2 years of life out of it (so plan ahead). If power is the focus, normally I would advise simply having 1 system that can do most things (ie unraid and xbmc) and turn it on and off as you need it but then you wouldn't have Unraid unless you did something complicated (ie virtualization) plus it will increase the heat generation so you will need more airflow movement to cool it down (hence the problem with humidity and salt).

I would say be careful about your power source and how it interacts with the power supply on this. Depending how you set up your system (or if you make a mistake such as leaving this on or set the start to all batteries during ignition) you're going to have some high and lows on the power and the power conversion system may not like it (watch out for autopilots, generally you run them all the time and during heavy seas they will keep varying the load sharply making your electrical system somewhat dynamic on the voltage). Its not impossible, just be careful overall and as always, safety first.

 

Good luck on your unraid quest and if you plan to go to the south Caribbean, I advise you read the Ithaca journal. Its a bit out of date but it gives a good vision of much of it. For example, the situation in Colombia is much better now.

http://www.boatus.com/cruising/ithaka/

 

Btw. Please let us know what you decided to go with. Always good reference for others in the future.

[switchman]

I would look at something like the DROBO, http://www.drobo.com/storage-products/drobo/.  Put 4x4Tb or 5TB drives in it and load it up.  Use XBMC on you laptop to play you entertainment back.  It uses a USB cable so is easy to use.

 

You want small, and self contained.  When you are not using it store it in a waterproof case with moister absorbers. You could also run an application such as torrent sync with friends that could resupply your media as well as backup any files you have created when you have internet access.

 

I would be concerned with those spinning heads in the drive when the boat is bouncing around.  As was stated earlier, SSD would be the safest solution.  I would at a minimum put an SSD in the laptop. I would go with a 1TB model.  It is costly, in your case, though I would think the best solution.  I would even look at getting a laptop that supports two drives an put two of them in it.

[Necrotic]

I would look at something like the DROBO, http://www.drobo.com/storage-products/drobo/.  Put 4x4Tb or 5TB drives in it and load it up.  Use XBMC on you laptop to play you entertainment back.  It uses a USB cable so is easy to use.

 

You want small, and self contained.  When you are not using it store it in a waterproof case with moister absorbers. You could also run an application such as torrent sync with friends that could resupply your media as well as backup any files you have created when you have internet access.

 

I would be concerned with those spinning heads in the drive when the boat is bouncing around.  As was stated earlier, SSD would be the safest solution.  I would at a minimum put an SSD in the laptop. I would go with a 1TB model.  It is costly, in your case, though I would think the best solution.  I would even look at getting a laptop that supports two drives an put two of them in it.

A self contained unit is probably the best to save on space but the Drobo wont work since he needs 12v input and capacity to handle varying input. I would also normally recommend away from having something portable, its too easy for it to get tossed around in a sailboat, if you can find a nice dry space to set it up and wire it would be best I would think.

Most of the places he will visit won't have fast internet, so any kind of syncing is probably out of the question or at least unlikely.

Spinning drives is a concern, you can mitigate it a bit by limiting times its on to non-heavy weather, use some bushings for vibrations and take advantage of Unraid backup is a must plus keep a space HDD locked up and sealed in case of failure at sea.

I would say SSD is a non-starter, better to buy multiple high capacity HDD and keep spares, it would be cheaper.

[garycase]

Sea environments aren't an issue for modern hard drives -- it's more of a potential issue with the circuit boards than with the sealed drives themselves.    I know folks who've had computers on their boats for a decade, with no environmental issues at all.  [My brother-in-law captains deep sea fishing charters out of Delaware, and the boats he uses all have computers]

 

For 4TB of protected storage, you could build a very small UnRAID system; but I'd be more inclined to simply buy something like a Western Digital My Cloud EX2 ... a 2-drive enclosure that supports RAID-1 ... and put a pair of 4TB WD Reds in it (or possibly even larger drives if they become available).    This is a very nice unit that has build-in RAID support, and would simply be a NAS for your laptop to access.    It comes with an AC adapter -- but this adapter provides 12v DC power for the box itself ... so you could easily power it directly from your 12v source.

 

There's a 4-drive version of it as well, but the 2 drive version is probably a better fit for your needs.  The 2-drive version is $189 at Newegg without any disks.  Add a pair of disks;  build a power cable to connect your 12v source to the unit; and you're ready to go 

 

I'm not aware of any mini-ITX case as small as the 6.75" x 6.10" x 3.90" of the 2-drive EX2, but there are a few that aren't much larger that will hold 3 drives with an ITX motherboard -- so you could build a 3-drive UnRAID that would hold twice as much data; but this would also be more problematic to power, as they aren't likely to run directly from 12v power.    In short:  for 4TB of storage, it seems an EX2 is a better choice than UnRAID for what you need.

 

Regardless of what you use, I'd still backup your new data regularly, and mail it to your sister.  While you could use small portable drives (as you noted), you could also do it with a simple SDXC reader [e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820721088 ] and a few 64GB or 128GB SDXC cards [The larger cards are a bit pricey, but MUCH simpler to mail than a hard drive  ]

 

[theone]

I'm not aware of any mini-ITX case as small as the 6.75" x 6.10" x 3.90" of the 2-drive EX2, but there are a few that aren't much larger that will hold 3 drives with an ITX motherboard -- so you could build a 3-drive UnRAID that would hold twice as much data; but this would also be more problematic to power, as they aren't likely to run directly from 12v power.    In short:  for 4TB of storage, it seems an EX2 is a better choice than UnRAID for what you need.

 

For powering an ITX board with 12v you could use a PICO PSU and connect it to your 12v source.

 

[garycase]

Agree -- I'd forgotten about the Pico units.  They would indeed be a good choice for powering an UnRAID box, if you can find a case small enough to meet your needs.    But as I noted above, if 4TB is all you need for this, a simple 2-drive WD EX2 is likely a better choice -- lower power; much smaller; and very reliable.

 

[dmacias]

I'm not aware of any mini-ITX case as small as the 6.75" x 6.10" x 3.90" of the 2-drive EX2, but there are a few that aren't much larger that will hold 3 drives with an ITX motherboard -- so you could build a 3-drive UnRAID that would hold twice as much data; but this would also be more problematic to power, as they aren't likely to run directly from 12v power.    In short:  for 4TB of storage, it seems an EX2 is a better choice than UnRAID for what you need.

 

For powering an ITX board with 12v you could use a PICO PSU and connect it to your 12v source.

I think a power supply with a wider input range would be better.

 

M4-ATX-HV 250W Intelligent DC DC PSU Power Supply Unit 6-34V Input $79

http://store.mp3car.com/M4_ATX_HV_250W_Intelligent_DC_DC_PSU_Power_Supply_p/pwr-042.htm

Put this in the enclosure below and add it to any case.  It will provide the 12v/5v/3.3v DC to your computer using as low a 6 volts DC up to 34 volts DC.

 

Mini-Box SFX / ATX enclosure for M4-ATX  $3.95

http://store.mp3car.com/Mini_Box_SFX_ATX_enclosure_for_M4_ATX_p/enc-038.htm