Unraid + Plex + 4k, what are the hardware requirements? Plex complaining server not powerful enough.

[JorgeB]

7 minutes ago, Joseph said:

However, the Intel site says both the Xeon E3 & E5 are "formerly Sandy Bridge"

Kabylake Xeons are E3-1xxx v5, not really up to date on E5s but I believe there are no Sky/Kaby lake E5 Xeons yet.

[vanes]

30 minutes ago, Joseph said:

so, do I understand correctly... you have either plex or emby server on an unRAID docker; and when you watch videos, do you view them on a client player --or web player-- in a VM on unRAID or on another box setup in your house?

Yes ,i run plex/emby server in docker containers all my home clients (web browser, smart tv, phones, tablets, pc......) can play content through native apps or dlna

For now i run them both to understand wich works better for me... 

[Hoopster]

On 2/1/2018 at 10:47 AM, johnnie.black said:

Kabylake Xeons are E3-1xxx v5, not really up to date on E5s but I believe there are no Sky/Kaby lake E5 Xeons yet.

 

Skylake E3 12xx Xeons are the V5 (Like the E3-1245 V5 in my main server)

Kaby Lake E3 12xx Xeons are V6

 

Intel has revamped the Xeon lines and it appears that the E5, E7 designations are going away in favor of the new Skylake Xeon SP (scalable processor) in the bronze, silver, gold, and platinum varieties.  There is also Xeon W which I think is the Xeon 15xx/16xx line (supposedly a new Xeon E in the future - replaces E3). 

 

There won't be a Coffee Lake (successor to Kaby Lake) Xeon E3 apparently.

 

It's a bit confusing now on the Xeon front.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Hoopster

[Joseph]

 

On 1/30/2018 at 12:09 PM, vanes said:

P.S. on my asrock j4205 both works perfect! emby and plex plays 4k hevc 10bit 400mbps video from here http://jell.yfish.us/ whith 35% cpu util. 

 

15 minutes ago, vanes said:

Yes ,i run plex/emby server in docker containers all my home clients (web browser, smart tv, phones, tablets, pc......) can play content through native apps or dlna

For now i run them both to understand wich works better for me... 

 

That's how I'm setup too. The goal is to be able to stream 4K content (transcode down as needed) smoothly without hiccups or stutters. As I've posted earlier, everything comes to a grinding halt trying to do this with my current gear.  What kind of GPU & CPU do you have on your unRAID to achieve playback?

[Joseph]

40 minutes ago, johnnie.black said:

Kabylake Xeons are E3-1xxx v5, not really up to date on E5s but I believe there are no Sky/Kaby lake E5 Xeons yet.

Ok, so I think I understand what's going on. E3 has several generations v1, v2...v5, etc. Its the generation that designates the architecture not merely the E3 label. Same goes for E5

[Joseph]

10 minutes ago, Hoopster said:

It's a bit confusing now on the Xeon front.

Definitely!! Thanks for the feedback and clarification. So I need to find a Xeon CPU that is built on architecture that can support 4K... don't just look at the E3 or E5 label. Look at the versions of each.

[JorgeB]

22 minutes ago, Hoopster said:

Skylake E3 12xx Xeons are the V5 (Like the E3-1245 V5 in my main server)

Kaby Lake E3 12xx Xeons are V6

 

Yes, that's what I meant to say

[Hoopster]

On 2/1/2018 at 11:32 AM, Joseph said:

Definitely!! Thanks for the feedback and clarification. So I need to find a Xeon CPU that is built on architecture that can support 4K... don't just look at the E3 or E5 label. Look at the versions of each.

 

For 4K you want at least a Kaby Lake CPU.  In the Xeon E3 line that is E3-12x5 V6.  My Skylake Xeon (V5) has hybrid/partial support for HEVC 10-bit and full support for HEVC 8-bit.  However, it is generally agreed that 4K content will mostly be 10-bit.  For full decode/encode support of HEVC 10-bit Main10 profile you need at least a Kaby Lake CPU.  To my knowledge there are currently no Coffee Lake Xeons.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Hoopster

[jbartlett]

I've been experimenting with HEVC video with my setup and the potential for converting my video library from raw MKV's to it. One thing you have to keep in mind when testing the server's capacity for transcoding is the buffer size you have configured. If you have your buffer set to 5 minutes, it'll run balls-to-the-wall until it transcodes a five minute buffer for the end client before it starts to throttle back. So things could look like it can't handle the HEVC transcode when it's really just building up a buffer.

 

I run PMS in a Windows VM as I've found it to be more stable than the Docker version. I've had my Plex datastore get corrupted twice under Docker forcing a complete rebuild (which was extremely annoying both times). Under the WinVM, I have Plex set up to store it's data in it's own virtual drive and I use True Image to make backups of it. I'm now looking to upgrade my NAS box to take advantage of the newer CPU's and hopefully multi-CPU for a high core count. The mad scientist in me wants to give all those cores to the WinVM and tell all of my remote family to watch a movie! (maniacal laughter) The balance point I'm working on now is clock speed vs core count - the more cores, the slower the CPU - I want the power but more cores can offset that need for power.

[Joseph]

1 hour ago, Hoopster said:

 

For 4K you want at least a Kaby Lake CPU.  In the Xeon E3 line that is E3-12xx V6.  My Skylake Xeon (V5) has hybrid/partial support for HEVC 10-bit and full support for HEVC 8-bit.  However, it is generally agreed that 4K content will mostly be 10-bit.  For full decode/encode support of HEVC 10-bit Main10 profile you need at least a Kaby Lake CPU.  To my knowledge there are currently no Coffee Lake Xeons.

Makes sense. This thread has been a tremendous help!!

 

It appears if I want Xeon CPUs and 4K then I'm limited to  8  4 cores (ie E3-1535M E3-1245 v6; formally Kaby Lake). If I want to runs lots of VMs and go with a 22 core (ie E5-2699A v4; formerly Broadwell) , then native 4K is not on the table based on its current architecture.

 

ps. thanks for listing your specs!!

Edited February 1, 2018 by Joseph

[HellDiverUK]

Back to this again.  For QuickSync you MUST use a CPU with the Intel GPU built in.  That means Pentium, i3, i5, i7 and Xeon E3-12x5 on Socket 115x.  

 

E5 Xeons don't have a GPU, nor do the Socket 2011/2066 i7 and i9.  The only thing they provide is serious CPU power, but even top-end ones will struggle transcoding 10-bit.

 

An i3-8100 would be better for a Plex server than a Xeon E5, assuming you're doing 10-bit transcoding.

[Joseph]

On 1/30/2018 at 12:09 PM, vanes said:

u need to  activate i915 driver in unraid "go" file.Than  and add extra parameters --device /dev/dri:/dev/dri in plex or emby template

So I discovered your mobo supports Apollo Lake architecture. I'm concerned activating the i915 driver might create issues with mine since its currently sandy bridge.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Joseph

[Hoopster]

3 hours ago, Joseph said:

It appears if I want Xeon CPUs and 4K then I'm limited to  8  4 cores (ie E3-1535M E3-1245 v6; formally Kaby Lake). If I want to runs lots of VMs and go with a 22 core (ie E5-2699A v4; formerly Broadwell) , then native 4K is not on the table based on its current architecture.

 

There are limitations on the server side right now with Xeon processors if your focus is video transcoding.  As you have discovered, the only Kaby Lake Xeons with a built-in GPU (for hardware transcoding) are the E3-12x5 V6.  But you are limited to 4 cores/8 threads with the E3.  This is why some are chosing to do the heavy lifting of transcoding on the client side with an HTPC or NUC with a desktop Apollo Lake, Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake processor.  The high core count E5 Xeons are great for running lots of VMs, but, they are not great for transcoding.

 

The older architecture chips like Sandy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, etc. that have built-in GPUs with QSV support can do hardware transcoding without utilizing a lot of CPU, but, not with HEVC 4K 8/10-bit content.  For 1080p, they are fine.

 

The real question right now should be if you really need 4K transcoding today.  Most of us here are sort of ignoring 4K for now, due to lack of content or we don't really perceive the need for this as 1080p is sufficient for (in my case) our old eyes.

 

As quickly as things change maybe in a year or so there will by Ryzen/Threadripper CPUs with built-in graphics (APUs) supported by Plex/Emby, or, perhaps there will be higher core-count Xeons with iGPUs or better support in Plex/Emby for nVidia/Radeon GPUs, etc. 

 

The 4K transcoding/streaming game right now is very much a moving target with a lot of rules yet to be defined.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Hoopster

[Joseph]

1 hour ago, Hoopster said:

This is why some are chosing to do the heavy lifting of transcoding on the client side with an HTPC or NUC with a desktop Apollo Lake, Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake processor.  The high core count E5 Xeons are great for running lots of VMs, but, they are not great for transcoding.

This is actually what I would like to do. HTPC side has a Geforce 980TI which specs claim it plays 4K, but from what I'm understanding on this thread the GPU is merely part of the requirements. If this is incorrect, then something isn't setup right with unRAID for it to tell the HTPC to transcode. What I'll probably do is update the hardware in the HTPC and not worry about unRAID doing the transcoding so it will give me more core options for my next build.

[pwm]

22 hours ago, Hoopster said:

Most of us here are sort of ignoring 4K for now, due to lack of content or we don't really perceive the need for this as 1080p is sufficient for (in my case) our old eyes.

 

It isn't really the higher resolution, but the higher color depth that is the big win with the 4k BD releases. So your old eyes would probably like 4k releases just fine.

[Joseph]

Does anyone know how to tell Emby to use the client side (either the Emby theatre app and/or the Web Interface) for transcoding? Or, can you point me in the right direction to read up on steps it takes to make it happen? Thanks in advance!

 

UPDATE:

It seems Emby Theatre knows to transcode on the client side if your client GPU can support the native stream. The web interface doesn't

Edited February 9, 2018 by Joseph

[JohanSF]

On 23/10/2017 at 6:41 PM, Zonediver said:

Simply use a GTX1050 (or Ti) or the newer GT1030 on your Client and done. This Cards are able to do H265 in hardware.

 

INFO:

4K (UHD) Direct Play Video Support

Some 4K (ultra high definition) devices are recognized by the Plex app. We're working to bring 4K playback support to other devices, too. 4K/UHD content matching the following will Direct Play on supported devices:

• Container: MP4
• Resolution: 3840x2160 or smaller
• Video Encoding: HEVC (H.265)
• Video Frame Rate: 30fps
• Video Bit Depth: 8

4K content not matching the above properties will be transcoded to 1080p. Transcoding 4K content is a very intensive process and will require a powerful computer running Plex Media Server.

 

I'm considering adding a GTX 1070 to my rig. Will it start doing the work out of the box or do I need to install some kind of drivers in unRAID?
I have plex running in the linuxserver docker.

Bonus question: will the power consumption jump significantly? right now I have this setup: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XrHkyf

[Zonediver]

18 hours ago, JohanSF said:

 

I'm considering adding a GTX 1070 to my rig. Will it start doing the work out of the box or do I need to install some kind of drivers in unRAID?
I have plex running in the linuxserver docker.

Bonus question: will the power consumption jump significantly? right now I have this setup: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XrHkyf

 

?

Simply use a GTX1050 (or Ti) or the newer GT1030 on your Client...

My post concerned the "plex-client", not the plex-server on unraid...

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Zonediver