unRAID Server Release 4.7 "final" Available


limetech

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... there is no easy to run process to re-construct a failed drive a second time,

 

Can't this be done be stopping the array, setting that disk slot to empty, then starting the array, and stopping it again, then re-assigning the drive to that slot and starting the array once more?

 

 

and where a interim parity sync would eliminate the ability to correctly re-construct the failed drive a second time.

 

That would definitely cause a problem.

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... there is no easy to run process to re-construct a failed drive a second time,

 

Can't this be done be stopping the array, setting that disk slot to empty, then starting the array, and stopping it again, then re-assigning the drive to that slot and starting the array once more?

Yes... I guess it would...  I did not think of that method.    (don't you hate it when someone describes the obvious to you  :-[)

and where a interim parity sync would eliminate the ability to correctly re-construct the failed drive a second time.

 

That would definitely cause a problem.

Yes, it would, as you would re-construct the bad data.
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Yes... I guess it would...  I did not think of that method.    (don't you hate it when someone describes the obvious to you  :-[)

 

Sorry Joe - I didn't mean to embarrass you ... I just wanted to confirm my understanding.

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Yes... I guess it would...  I did not think of that method.    (don't you hate it when someone describes the obvious to you  :-[)

 

Sorry Joe - I didn't mean to embarrass you ... I just wanted to confirm my understanding.

 

The problem is that you are unlikely to be aware of the problem directly after it has happened.  It is highly likely that a new parity check will have been run before it is discovered and then it would be impossible to 'try again'.

 

 

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Yes... I guess it would...  I did not think of that method.    (don't you hate it when someone describes the obvious to you  :-[)

 

Sorry Joe - I didn't mean to embarrass you ... I just wanted to confirm my understanding.

I learn how little I know... again, and again...

 

I'll get over my embarrassment... eventually...

 

excuse me as I go hang my head in shame...  ;)

 

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It would be nice to leave the "reply" out of the "quoted" section ;).

 

strange.. .when I hit the quote button, the content showed 3 quote opens but only 1 close.  I just had to manually add 2 more.....

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I know you folks want to provide clear instructions. Good instructions must include EVERY step in a process. I believe your instructions omit a crucial step. That leaves the possibility of getting different results. Please see below.

 

The instructions for creating a bootable Flash Drive seem clear EXCEPT for two issues.

 

Step 3 says, "Click on your Flash device (to open it) and drag then entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash."

 

Notice that the instructions say to drag "the entire contents". That leaves two interpretations:

 

A. Extract the downloaded zip file into a folder on my Windows hard drive. Extract the zipped archive into that folder. Then drag only the extracted contents to the flash drive.

Or

B. Drag the entire zipped archive file over to the flash drive.

 

You never state in the instructions to extract the zipped archive. Without that step, the  instruction in step 4, "For Windows XP, click on the file 'make_bootable'. " is not possible.

 

If I drag the downloaded zipped archive to the flash drive and extract it there, placement of the files is different than if I extract on my hard drive THEN drag the extracted files to my flash drive.

 

I've tried it both ways.

 

Second, on one version that I downloaded, clicking on "make_bootable" produced a window to extract some files. Another download just ran the script.

 

Sadly, I have experimented with this download and followed the instructions. (I've tried it several ways.) I produced a Flash drive I thought would boot on my machine. What shows on my machine at boot time is "BOOT ERROR."

 

The archive came from your site. It is named "unRAID Server 4.7 AIO".

 

The flash drive is set as the first boot device.

 

Any suggestions and ideas would be appreciated.

 

Bach On

 

 

 

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Step 3 says, "Click on your Flash device (to open it) and drag then entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash."

 

Notice that the instructions say to drag "the entire contents". That leaves two interpretations: It does not

 

A. Extract the downloaded zip file into a folder on my Windows hard drive. Extract the zipped archive into that folder. Then drag only the extracted contents to the flash drive. This is what is described.

Or

B. Drag the entire zipped archive file over to the flash drive. This violates the first red colored line

 

Bach On

 

The contents of the zip file should be copied to the flash.

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;) Respectfully, I will again point out that the provided instructions NEVER (Not a single time) tells the reader to extract the Zipped Archive file. Go back and read the posted instructions and you will see that what I say is true.

 

A clear case can be made that if one drags the zipped archive to the flash drive then they are  dragging the contents. Or a Newbie unfamiliar with zipped archives might not know the difference. Telling them to extract the zipped archive within a hard drive folder seems pretty simple.

 

I'm sure your answer is to use common sense. My answer is to write instructions where this entire question cannot even come up.

 

I used to write computer manuals. We were taught to treat the instructions for users just like programers have to treat computer code. Computer code does not rely on computers having common sense to interpret vague instructions. The code tells the computer each step to perform in sequence. Good computer manuals and instructions do the same thing for the users.

 

If we were debating about computer code, you'd agree that the code needed to be changed. This would be viewed as a simple bug.

 

You gave clear instructions for doing relatively simple things most people know how to do, like formatting the Flash drive. You even mentioned the Administrator step required in Windows Vista and Windows 7. And you mentioned ejecting the Flash drive. All these instructions were mostly "idiot proof". That translates to good, clear instructions. 

 

This issue can easily be fixed. And if you and I don't get caught up in a testosterone battle of who is right - I think most reasonable people will see that it should be changed.

 

BO

 

 

 

 

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A clear case can be made that if one drags the zipped archive to the flash drive then they are  dragging the contents.

 

The instruction is to: "...drag the entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash..."

 

If the intention was to drag the whole file, intact, then the words 'entire contents of the' would have been omitted.  It doesn't take a lot of intelligence to realise that.  In any case, it is totally unnecessary to 'extract ... within a hard drive folder' since almost all dearchivers will let you drag from a view onto the contents of the archive, only performing extraction as the files are copied to the flash drive.

 

Having said all that, I do, however, understand where you are coming from.

 

 

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I used to write computer manuals. We were taught to treat the instructions for users just like programers have to treat computer code. Computer code does not rely on computers having common sense to interpret vague instructions. The code tells the computer each step to perform in sequence. Good computer manuals and instructions do the same thing for the users.

 

Where are the manuals you wrote? I've never seen a manual that gives each step in sequence, most I've seen are basically a couple sheets of paper with pictures,  :o

 

Not that I'm complaining, its fun to buy something, look at the picture, then play the game "make it look like the picture" or as with computers, "google the hell outta this"

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:D OK, guys. I've had my say. I'm now going to rest my case. It seems to be falling on infertile ground.

 

To answer your question, I wrote computer manuals for the school system for which I worked. I was in the Technology Department. These manuals were used to teach our teachers how to use programs like MS Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, and many of the MS Works programs. Teachers like to have clear instructions. We used to call them "Bing. Bing. Bing." instructions.

 

I agree that many computer instructions and manuals are not written in this fashion. The best ones are clear and step-by-step.

 

What caused me to respond was that I saw the instructions presented here were generally presented in a clear step-by-step form. I just felt (and still feel) they were not quite complete.

 

BO

 

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I didn't mean that in a negative way, I see exactly where your coming from and know that while most users would understand to extract, there will be those that don't, and rewording the instructions could save a lot of "extract first THEN copy" posts.

 

I just wish you would have wrote the instruction manuals for one of the countless items i've purchased and had a major WTF moment looking at the manual.

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I believe the idea behind the instructions is that if you are smart enough to build a computer to run UNRAID, you should know what "drag the entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash" means. You have to set an intelligence benchmark somewhere.

 

But you are correct, there will be users that won't understand the meaning behind it, no matter how much you dumb it down.

 

From my own experience in trying to write easy to follow instructions and being told over and over that people are finding it too complicated and to dumb it down - and eventually told to just do it without telling the user, there will always be someone who won't understand the most basic of instructions.

 

I had a co-worker who had a user who kept asking "What do I do now?" He redid a page that had a button in the center labeled "Click me" with four red arrows pointing to it. She still asked "What do I do now?"

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I believe the idea behind the instructions is that if you are smart enough to build a computer to run UNRAID, you should know what "drag the entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash" means. You have to set an intelligence benchmark somewhere.

 

Yet the instructions clearly describe steps these same "smart enough to build a computer to run UNRAID" people probably know how to do. Sorry, but I don't think this has anything to do with intelligence. Just because someone does not know how to perform some computer task like formatting a Flash drive, or is not experienced in extracting zipped archives to the right location does not mean they have low intelligence. I know plenty of very smart people who cannot write Linux code. Knowing such things are specialized skills. Knowing or not knowing these things has nothing to do with the intelligence of a person. 

 

Here's my last attempt. The provided instructions include many detailed steps. Some users probably don't even bother to read these steps. Because of their experience, they probably know how to do all these things. (Notice I said because of experience NOT intelligence.) But the steps were included for those who might need them. They got down to some fairly simple details like telling those using Vista or Windows 7 to select Run as Administrator when selecting Make_Bootable. But they left out one crucial step. If you do not extract the Server zip file, the contents will not be there for someone to drag to the Flash. There is no statement in the provided instructions to extract the Server Zip file. You guys seem to be acting like the step was left off because those who wrote the instructions figured anyone with any intelligence would intuitively know what they meant. I repeat - this is a very simple issue to correct. If this prevents one or two people from making a mistake, I'd say the change would be beneficial.   

 

From the circle the wagons stance I'm reading here, you'd think I was suggesting a change in the wording of some passage in the United States Constitution.

 

When I was in elementary school there was an example they used in our textbooks to explain proper placement of pronouns. It went something like this:

 

"I'm going to hold this nail.

      You take this hammer.

            When I nod my head,

                Hit it with the hammer."

 

BO

 

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When I was in elementary school there was an example they used in our textbooks to explain proper placement of pronouns. It went something like this:

 

"I'm going to hold this nail.

      You take this hammer.

            When I nod my head,

                Hit it with the hammer."

 

BO

 

First "picture" that popped into my head (pre-coffee) was the person holding the nail getting hit by the hammer after he nodded.

 

Guess grew up watching too many 3 Stooges.

 

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The example I cited always made me laugh as a kid. That "3 Stooges" picture you had in your head was exactly what that little set of instructions said. It was supposed to teach us that we needed to be careful in what and how we wrote. Almost everyone can tell what was meant. But the incorrect placement of the pronoun (IT) did tell the person with the hammer to hit the head - even though they MEANT the nail.  :D

 

I included it, of course, to make a point: Clear writing can prevent misunderstandings.

 

BO

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  • 4 weeks later...

;) Respectfully, I will again point out that the provided instructions NEVER (Not a single time) tells the reader to extract the Zipped Archive file. Go back and read the posted instructions and you will see that what I say is true.

 

A clear case can be made that if one drags the zipped archive to the flash drive then they are  dragging the contents. Or a Newbie unfamiliar with zipped archives might not know the difference. Telling them to extract the zipped archive within a hard drive folder seems pretty simple.

 

I'm sure your answer is to use common sense. My answer is to write instructions where this entire question cannot even come up.

 

I used to write computer manuals. We were taught to treat the instructions for users just like programers have to treat computer code. Computer code does not rely on computers having common sense to interpret vague instructions. The code tells the computer each step to perform in sequence. Good computer manuals and instructions do the same thing for the users.

 

If we were debating about computer code, you'd agree that the code needed to be changed. This would be viewed as a simple bug.

 

You gave clear instructions for doing relatively simple things most people know how to do, like formatting the Flash drive. You even mentioned the Administrator step required in Windows Vista and Windows 7. And you mentioned ejecting the Flash drive. All these instructions were mostly "idiot proof". That translates to good, clear instructions. 

 

This issue can easily be fixed. And if you and I don't get caught up in a testosterone battle of who is right - I think most reasonable people will see that it should be changed.

 

BO

 

 

When you download the release, it appears as a zip folder in whatever place you downloaded it to, that is as folder icon with a zipper.  When you click it, it opens like any other folder and shows the contents of the folder.  In almost every way it acts like a "normal" folder.

 

The instructions say:

3. Click on your Flash device (to open it) and drag then entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash.

 

I guess it should say:

3. Click on the unRAID Server zip file (to open it), and click on your Flash device (to open it), and then drag then entire contents of the unRAID Server zip file to the Flash.

 

 

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I've spoken to several people (with varying levels of computing knowledge) regarding install instructions, and all of them said it made sense and knew exactly what to do.

 

Sure, go ahead and change the instructions (why not make it easier), but if you can't understand copying the contents of a zip file then perhaps unRAID isn't for you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I just tried to upgrade from 4.5, and after replacing bzimage, bzroot and memtest on the flash drive and rebooting, the array will not start and I am getting a message that "Two or more disks are wrong".

 

I have attached my syslog. Please help!

 

syslog.txt

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