SanDisk Cruzer Blade 32GB USB Flash Drive (SDCZ50-032G-B35) worked for me today

Samsung Bar Plus (64Gb 3.1) have given me nothing but grief on 2 servers.

I replaced 1 of them with the same flash drive after a year or so, but the experience has been the same.

 

After the drive has been in use for awhile, reboots will either

1 - not recognize AT THE BIOS LEVEL the drive.  The drive then needs to be moved to another USB port and cooled to room temperature, then reset in BIOS

2 - partially boot and throw various errors such as "unable to enumerate USB device"

 

Allowing the drive to cool to room temperature AND switching the USB port used is the only thing that consistently works when this occurs. 

 

Fed up with this, I've been on the hunt for USB 2.0 drives.

 

Today I ordered a handful of 32GB Sandisk Cruzer Blade 2.0 drives --- DIRECTLY from SanDisk!

https://shop.sandisk.com/products/usb-flash-drives/sandisk-cruzer-blade-usb-2-0?sku=SDCZ50-032G-B35

 

@landS The 32GB Version doing their work in 2 Servers. Only issue I had: It needed manual FAT32 formatting and manuall install with the "make bootable" batch file.

 

Since 2022 no issues at all

49 minutes ago, HardwareHarry said:

@landS The 32GB Version doing their work in 2 Servers. Only issue I had: It needed manual FAT32 formatting and manuall install with the "make bootable" batch file.

 

Since 2022 no issues at all

While I'm happy for your good fortune, we can't extrapolate much from it.

 

If your model of drive had a 25% failure rate over three years, 56% of the people who bought a pair of them three years ago would have experienced no failures by now.  

Best thing is add a usb2 header to your motherboard and this forces the usb stick to work at usb2 instead of usb3.

However before discovering that I did go and buy an industrial usb stick.

1 minute ago, dopeytree said:

Best thing is add a usb2 header to your motherboard and this forces the usb stick to work at usb2 instead of usb3.

However before discovering that I did go and buy an industrial usb stick.

Using a USB 2.0 port, whether internal or external, reportedly helps reliability.  But your industrial USB stick helps a lot more.  Cheers!

@HardwareHarry, @Miss_Sissy, @dopeytree

 

Running the Samsung Bar Plus on an internal 2.0 header very well may have helped.

 

In each failure instance, I have been running on the rear of the motherboard, using a 3.x port.  My computer cases are on an upper shelf of a closet.  While the case has plenty of fresh air coming in the front and venting out the top, the rear I/O is subject to little air movement and gets very warm. 

 

Had I been running these on an internal header, they would have had much better airflow. 

@landS

Quote

While the case has plenty of fresh air coming in the front and venting out the top, the rear I/O is subject to little air movement and gets very warm. 

Samsung literature calls the BAR Plus drives "Temperature-proof" and then, apparently without recognizing the irony, specifies "Operating temperatures of 0℃ to 60℃ (32°F to 140°F)." *

 

My ATP NANODURA 4GB B800pi flash drive is rated for an operating temperature range of -40°C to 85°C (-40°F to 185°F).

 

* Samsung previously rated the BAR Plus line for an operating temperature range of -25°C to 85°C but later revised that down to the more limited 0℃ to 60℃ range we see now.  That suggests that Samsung might have downgraded the drive's NAND flash or other internal components.  Or they might have discovered that the drives were not reliable at the previously specified -25°C to 85°C temperature range.

 

 

[Grok AI Output]

 

USB Stick Memory: Consumer vs. Industrial – Why It Matters for Unraid Servers

 

When choosing a USB stick for an Unraid server, the type of memory it uses can significantly impact performance, reliability, and longevity. Here’s a quick breakdown of the differences between consumer and industrial USB sticks, and why industrial-grade options are often the better choice for Unraid setups.

 

Consumer USB Sticks: Affordable but Limited

 

Most consumer USB sticks use TLC (Triple-Level Cell) or QLC (Quad-Level Cell) NAND flash memory. These memory types prioritize high storage capacity and low cost, making them ideal for casual use like file transfers or media storage. However, they have drawbacks:

 

• Lower Endurance: TLC and QLC memory have fewer program/erase cycles (typically 500–1,000), meaning they wear out faster under constant read/write operations.
• Slower Speeds: They often have lower write speeds and less efficient error correction, which can lead to performance bottlenecks.
• Less Reliable: Consumer sticks are not designed for continuous operation, making them prone to failure in demanding environments like servers.

 

Industrial USB Sticks: Built for Durability

 

Industrial-grade USB sticks, on the other hand, typically use SLC (Single-Level Cell) or MLC (Multi-Level Cell) NAND flash memory, which are far superior for server applications:

 

• Higher Endurance: SLC memory can handle up to 100,000 program/erase cycles, while MLC offers around 10,000 cycles, making them ideal for the constant read/write operations of an Unraid server.
• Faster and More Reliable: Industrial sticks feature better error correction (ECC), wear leveling, and higher-quality controllers, ensuring consistent performance and data integrity.
• Designed for 24/7 Use: These sticks are built to operate in extreme conditions, with wider temperature ranges and resistance to vibration or shock, making them perfect for always-on server environments.

 

Why Industrial Sticks Are Better for Unraid

Unraid servers rely on a USB stick to store the operating system, configuration files, and license key, with frequent read/write operations during boot, updates, and system logging. A consumer-grade USB stick may fail prematurely under this workload, leading to system instability or data corruption. Industrial-grade sticks, with their superior memory and durability, minimize these risks, ensuring your Unraid server runs smoothly for years.

 

Takeaway

While consumer USB sticks are cheaper, investing in an industrial-grade USB stick with SLC or MLC memory is a smart choice for Unraid servers. The enhanced endurance, speed, and reliability will save you from headaches and potential downtime in the long run.

Edited March 13, 20251 yr by dopeytree

29 minutes ago, dopeytree said:

with frequent read/write operations during boot, updates, and system logging.

 

Normal users will be fine with a consumer drive as far as writes go

 

9 minutes ago, Michael_P said:

Normal users will be fine with a consumer drive as far as writes go

There is more to Unraid flash reliability than cell P/E cycles.  As one goes from SLC to TLC to MLC to QLC, the error rate goes up, the data retention time goes down, and the operating temperature window shrinks -- in addition to P/E cycles going from ~100,000 in SLC to just ~100 – 1,000 in QLC.  

 

See:  https://storedbits.com/slc-mlc-tlc-qlc-and-plc/#Detailed_Comparison_of_SLC_MLC_TLC_QLC_and_PLC_NAND_Flash_Cells

1 minute ago, Miss_Sissy said:

There is more to Unraid flash reliability than cell P/E cycles.  As one goes from SLC to TLC to MLC to QLC, the error rate goes up, the data retention time goes down, and the operating temperature window shrinks -- in addition to P/E cycles going from ~100,000 in SLC to just ~100 – 1,000 in QLC.  

 

See:  https://storedbits.com/slc-mlc-tlc-qlc-and-plc/#Detailed_Comparison_of_SLC_MLC_TLC_QLC_and_PLC_NAND_Flash_Cells

 

Normal users will be fine with a consumer drive as far as writes go

1 hour ago, Michael_P said:

 

Normal users will be fine with a consumer drive as far as writes go

 

Uuuhhh...what am I doing wrong???

Other than updating plugins regularly, why am I writing to flash so much more than you?

3 minutes ago, Mattaton said:

Other than updating plugins regularly

Probably this

5 minutes ago, Michael_P said:

Normal users will be fine with a consumer drive as far as writes go

I didn't dispute that in my reply.

12 hours ago, dopeytree said:

USB Stick Memory: Consumer vs. Industrial – Why It Matters for Unraid Servers

 

Examples?

I use a Lexar FireFly 8GB since 11.11.2012 - still working 👍

And "if" this stick will die in the future, i will use a Kingston DataTraveler SE9 with 16GB in a metal case...

Edited March 12, 20251 yr by Zonediver

3 hours ago, Zonediver said:

Examples?

If you want examples of failed consumer flash drives, the Unraid forums have plenty of them.

 

3 hours ago, Zonediver said:

I use a Lexar FireFly 8GB since 11.11.2012 - still working 👍

And "if" this stick will die in the future, i will use a Kingston DataTraveler SE9 with 16GB in a metal case...

Personal anecdotes about individual drives and warm feelings about case materials are no way to choose flash drives for applications where high reliability is important.  I will stick with SLC NAND industrial drives like the ATP NANODURA, but you do you.

Once more we are getting in a back and forth debate that goes nowhere.

I think everyone stated its arguments. People have the necessery information to make their own informed decision.

11 hours ago, Zonediver said:

 

Examples?

I use a Lexar FireFly 8GB since 11.11.2012 - still working 👍

And "if" this stick will die in the future, i will use a Kingston DataTraveler SE9 with 16GB in a metal case...

 

23 minutes ago, ChatNoir said:

Once more we are getting in a back and forth debate that goes nowhere.

I think everyone stated its arguments. People have the necessery information to make their own informed decision.

Moreso now that it's being debated against ChatGPT

 

8 hours ago, Miss_Sissy said:

If you want examples of failed consumer flash drives, the Unraid forums have plenty of them.

 

Personal anecdotes about individual drives and warm feelings about case materials are no way to choose flash drives for applications where high reliability is important.  I will stick with SLC NAND industrial drives like the ATP NANODURA, but you do you.

 

?

So that means: You DONT KNOW... i see...

Edited March 13, 20251 yr by Zonediver

Sorry I dropped in some Grok (I don't like chatGPT.) info incase it helps explain usb sticks a bit more.

 

Personally I had issues with the Samsung bar usb sticks

I then went to Kingston usb2 and still had issue after a few months.

Then went to an 2gb industrial ATP stick from RS components.

They have a filter on the side for various options within the usbkeys.

 

It's kind of like if you've used a Chinese special SSD that's cheap they are good then they suddenly fail. At least amazon honour warranty via the chat

 

Anyway it's for people to decide what works for them. 

Generally most shouldn't have any issues but when you do you want a solution.

There is also a piece of code you can enter if you see lots of reads happening from your usb stick (unraid 7 issue).

 

 

Happy unraiding folks
 

Edited March 13, 20251 yr by dopeytree

IMO, more common is a bad computer or host controller. USB stick selection for Unraid just doesn't matter.

 

I expect this thread to go on forever and ever - just because some folks like spinning their wheels, wasting time, feeling important for finding a magic USB key, etc. It'd be hilarious as a Monty Python skit, but in here is just kind of sad and boring.

 

There is one valuable take-away: BACKUP

Turn on the flash/boot disk backup feature in Unraid Connect. If your boot key ever goes bad, restoring the backup to a new key is fast and painless. You'll be back up in a few minutes if the issue isn't with your machine in general.

 

 

Edited March 13, 20251 yr by Espressomatic

Let's keep things civil please! 

 

I love the passion and strong opinions. @SpaceInvaderOne and I have plans to make an updated "best USB for Unraid" video so we'll be sure to reach out for recs and use this thread as a resource.

There are published data about drives with SLC, TLC, MLC, QLC, PLC, ETC (can acronyms be puns?) available from reliable third parties. Reviewing them, if flash technologies are compared, SLC wins regarding reliability, error rate, environmental stress tolerance, and service life.

Where that aligns with this forum thread is simply each users' decision of which technology to choose when they purchase a USB storage device to run Unraid from. This is no different than choice of processor (Xeon vs i7 vs AMD?), Cache drive selection (higher TBW number?), RAM (ECC or non-ECC?), storage drive selection (anyone else use Backblaze reliability data to assist selection?), and other important hardware considerations.

 

Fortunately, one of Unraid's attractive features (one of many) is that it can run on low-spec hardware, and can recover gracefully from loss of disk(s).

 

Anecdotal, but I've had three failures of the consumer-grade MLC and TLC USB storage devices that were previously recommended here and by the (helpful and awesome!) SpaceInvaderOne videos. My other hardware was comparatively higher-grade, and so I've since taken the recommendation to not skimp on the USB drive and have been very happy with SLC (fingers crossed).

 

It is not clear to me (personally) why others who have pointed out similar to above are asked to remain civil. (Who knows? Perhaps I will be asked same after this post?)

 

What IS clear to me is that each user simply chooses the risk they're willing to accept and that influences (or should influence) their decisions about which hardware to use. Some will accept more risk, some less. So for the USB storage device, consumer-grade USB storage devices look like they carry more risk of failure than their industrial counterparts. Perhaps many/most will have successful use of a consumer-grade drive for a long time. That's great! Others simply invest more money in lower likelihood of drive failure. No surprises here - one typically gets what they pay for.

23 minutes ago, adoucette said:

It is not clear to me (personally) why others who have pointed out similar to above are asked to remain civil.

Someone reported a bunch of posts asking for comments to be removed. While I didn't see anything overtly against our community norms, this isn't the first time that arguments have arose from this thread and I just wanted to ensure nothing got out of hand. Thanks!