Shinta0Saint Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I have a couple used ssd’s, out of curiosity, can I build an array with parity with it?, don’t have an unraid system built yet, still learning as much as I could about it, don’t need any mass storage, just fast access to files. What are the pros and cons aside from the cost (obviously). Do mechanical drives last longer with parity? Or ssd are still superior in this case? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 You can, main disadvantage is that array devices can't be trimmed, so write performance might decrease over time. Quote Link to comment
Shinta0Saint Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Thanks for the feedback much appreciated!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment
Cessquill Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Samsung announced this week mass production of consumer level 4TB SSDs. Whilst the prices aren't known yet (to me at least), it got me thinking again about a supported version of unRaid running on SSDs. I'd quite happily shift over to something running quieter, faster, smaller and more efficient at some point. Does anybody know the latest on Lime Tech officially supporting/recommending SSDs in the array? Or does the TRIM rule it out completely? 1 Quote Link to comment
pwm Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Cessquill said: Or does the TRIM rule it out completely? Some TRIM performs like zeroing - so a RAID machine can recompute the parity as if the data was zeroed (which means all disks needs to be online or the original contents needs to be read before TRIM is sent). But the parity drive can never make use of TRIM, since it doesn't have a file system with unused portions to TRIM. This means that a RAID should be designed in a way where TRIM isn't needed for it to work well. So the way to use SSD in a RAID is to have overprovisioning. Either enterprise disks that is delivered with a significantly large, hidden, amount of overprovisioning. Or high-end customer drives that can be configured so parts of the user space of the drive is reserved for overprovisioning. But note that large HDD (especially helium-filled models) are quite efficient when used for a home media server, since you can often manage with a single disk spinning. So best is a tiered solution where data files and audio is stored on SSD and movies and TV-series are stored on big HDD. This is what I am currently doing. So mirrored SSD for often used data. Mirrored 2.5" HDD for next tier of data. And then multi-disk RAID with dual-parity for bulk storage. And backup to drives that are allowed to spin down between each backup run, with new data "rolling" over multiple drives so backup drives doesn't need to spin up every night. 2 Quote Link to comment
Cessquill Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Thanks for this - given me a lot to look into and think about. 1 Quote Link to comment
Marshalleq Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 They've landed now. In stock (note it's NZ price) as per links below. The 8TB might be out of my price range though. https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDSAM60400/Samsung-860-QVO-MZ-76Q4T0BW-4TB--Samsung-V-NAND-SA https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/HDDITX45108002/Intel-P4510-Series-8TB-25-PCI-E-NVMe-SSD-3200MBs-r Without reading up on it (so could be wrong), the below statement in 6.7.0 release almost sounds like it would work for a filesystem across multiple ssd's? Added the '--allow-discards' option to LUKS open. This should only have any effect when using encrypted Cache device/pool with SSD devices. It allows a file system to notice if underlying device supports TRIM and if so, passes TRIM commands down. ? Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Marshalleq said: the below statement in 6.7.0 release almost sounds like it would work for a filesystem across multiple ssd's? Yes, for the cache pool, and trim always worked for the cache pool, it doesn't for array devices. Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) Not trivial at all when you can't guarantee how the SSDs behave when a "trim" command is sent to them. Taking the disk offline, trimming it, and putting it back online can Frak up your Parity protection. Edited July 13, 2019 by BRiT 1 Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, fluisterben said: Does seem somewhat trivial to also support it for array devices. Just take the disk offline, trim it, put it back online. Keep in mind that parity is calculated and maintained for every bit, not just the bits actively used by files. If you change bits in an "unused" area with the drive offline, that parity address will be wrong when you put the drive back in. Quote Link to comment
fluisterben Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 3 hours ago, jonathanm said: Keep in mind that parity is calculated and maintained for every bit, not just the bits actively used by files. If you change bits in an "unused" area with the drive offline, that parity address will be wrong when you put the drive back in. http://xfs.org/index.php/FITRIM/discard Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Yup, and all that has to be supported by the unRAID md block driver as specified by the requirements on the link you posted. So it's not trivial as you think. Requirements The block device underneath the filesystem must support the FITRIM operation. Quote Link to comment
fluisterben Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 7/13/2019 at 8:46 PM, BRiT said: Yup, and all that has to be supported by the unRAID md block driver as specified by the requirements on the link you posted. So it's not trivial as you think. Requirements The block device underneath the filesystem must support the FITRIM operation. "All that" ? Looks to me like a little config editing and you're done. Seriously, it's 2019 and Unraid does not support TRIM in its array? This should at the very least be mentioned before trying to sell it. Quote Link to comment
testdasi Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 hour ago, fluisterben said: "All that" ? Looks to me like a little config editing and you're done. Seriously, it's 2019 and Unraid does not support TRIM in its array? This should at the very least be mentioned before trying to sell it. Ignorant keyboard warrior. 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment
fluisterben Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, testdasi said: Ignorant keyboard warrior. 🙄 You need to grow up and stop yelling like a toddler. And mind your own business. http://xfs.org/index.php/FITRIM/discard > "The kernel must include TRIM support and XFS must include FITRIM support (this has been true for Linux since v2.6.38, Jan 18 2011)" Edited September 9, 2019 by fluisterben Quote Link to comment
testdasi Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, fluisterben said: You need to grow up and stop yelling like a toddler. And mind your own business. http://xfs.org/index.php/FITRIM/discard > "The kernel must include TRIM support and XFS must include FITRIM support (this has been true for Linux since v2.6.38, Jan 18 2011)" You need to stuff your ignorance back up your backside. This aint Trump's states. It has nothing to do with the config. The issue is how that would interact of parity calculation and there have already been reports of a certain SSD causing parity error when in the array - and that is without trim complicating the matter. And for a double dose of stuffing ignorance back up your backside, I already raised a feature request to enable trim in the array before your throwing tantrum. So I am minding my business. Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, fluisterben said: "All that" ? Looks to me like a little config editing and you're done. Seriously, it's 2019 and Unraid does not support TRIM in its array? This should at the very least be mentioned before trying to sell it. So do it yourself then. Quote Link to comment
Squid Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 "All that" ? Looks to me like a little config editing and you're done. Seriously, it's 2019 and Unraid does not support TRIM in its array? This should at the very least be mentioned before trying to sell it.Tom answered this question in the Q&A only certain SSDs are possible to use. And it's all dependent upon what they return for a sector contents after either a trim or background garbage collection. Since not all SSDs handle this the way that any RAID system needs it to then you just cant say you support SSDs. The ones which handle it correctly though will operate no problems.If they dont handle it correctly then on any RAID system you will wind up corrupting the parity systemSent from my NSA monitored device Quote Link to comment
Joseph Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 On 9/9/2019 at 9:47 AM, Squid said: Tom answered this question in the Q&A only certain SSDs are possible to use. Now you've got me curious on which ones might work... but I can't find the thread. If you could post a link, search terms, or point me to where this topic is, that would be great. Thanks! Quote Link to comment
Squid Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Unraid website, the 14th birthday blog postSent from my NSA monitored device Quote Link to comment
Joseph Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Squid said: Unraid website, the 14th birthday blog post Thanks....on it! Quote Link to comment
gareth_iowc Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 i've been running a 3 drive ssd array for about a year now with no trouble. I don't yet have a parity drive and was thinking of adding an ssd one. Anyone successfully using ssd as parity? Quote Link to comment
voidburn Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 10/27/2019 at 9:16 PM, gareth_iowc said: i've been running a 3 drive ssd array for about a year now with no trouble. I don't yet have a parity drive and was thinking of adding an ssd one. Anyone successfully using ssd as parity? I am sick and tired of dumping north of 300 bucks on replacement hard drives which regularly fail after 2 years (despite being enterprise seagate ones). Since my data hoarding is mild (< 1TB) I am going to wing it and simply spin up 4x500GB SSDs array without parity until official support lands. Even if trim is disabled I think I'll survive for plenty of years (don't remember the last time I actually deleted something from the array, for frequent changing data I rely on SSD cache drives anyway). The reason I'm doing this is purely out of longevity issues with mechanical drives and the specific use I make of my storage space. As for parity, well I'm going to risk it, based on the fact that in > 8 years of SSD usage I had zero bit rot and zero failures. So, thanks for confirming that you had no trouble with an SSD array without parity, that's all the reassurance I needed to get rid of the anxiety of expensive mechanical drives failing on me yet again! Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 You can have parity, of all the SSDs I tested only one had a couple of regular sync errors, the now descontinued Kingston SV300, I also have a small all SSD array with parity mostly for testing and without any issues. If using parity I recommend getting a faster SSD, more endurance will also be a plus, remember that parity will have many more writes than any other data device and even if/when LT adds trim support parity can never be trimmed, since it doesn't have a filesystem, I'm using one WD NVMe black for parity and 4 SATA WD Blue 3D devices for data, and I'm getting good performance so far, I'll see after a few months how the lack of trim degrades performance. Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 You might have hardware issues or absolutely the worst of luck if you have drive failures every 2 years. Or maybe you have a cat that is sabotaging your servers. 2 Quote Link to comment
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