Announcing New Unraid OS License Keys

[Hostile_18]

Ultimately yes per person will be paying more, but will this cover the loss of new sign ups put off by the new model? The extra features added would have to be amazing, and well above the competition, thus draining the pot another way.

 

At the moment LT seem to be stuck in a cycle of having to spend on marketing to afford the current operation. Perhaps the better option would be to scale back the business costs, and produce updates slower with a much smaller team (or even subsidised hobbiests). Natural growth by good will would likely bring in just as many new customers as through expensive advertising.

Edited March 5 by Hostile_18

[Spec7re]

I've been following this since the announcement and I fully understand and support Lime Tech on this change. Software development is not cheap and any good business needs consistent revenue to continue to grow. Lifetime options have never worked...ever. At some point you hit that fork in the road where you have to make that decision and it seems like Lime Tech has reached that fork. Personally I think they are trying their best to keep the goodwill with their current users, but also grow the company at the same time.

 

That being said, I also hear what others are saying about security updates and to to be fair they aren't wrong either. I will preface by saying that I am not a software developer by any means, so please take this with a grain of salt. I do think a lot of people don't fully realize/understand that not everything is simple when it comes to software development. It may sound easy, but in reality it isn't. Even something as simple as security updates for older version may be a big under taking, especially for a small development team. Personally I do not think it's practical, or fair to ask Lime Tech to maintain every version of Unraid that gets released going forward forever.

 

I wonder if a good compromise would be for Lime Tech to offer security and major bug fixes (minor point releases) to those users who do not want to pay for another year for a limited time? For example they could offer these minor updates for a max of 3 years, after which that version of Unraid will no longer get any updates. It will still continue to function, but no more updates. If you want to continue to receive any updates dates after the "update period" has ended...you will have to purchase another year (which will give you another 4 year-ish of security updates for example).

 

I do see both sides, but I also think we as customers have to be reasonable as well. Lime Tech has commented that they are reviewing the possibility of offering security updates to those users who do not wish to pay for the new version every year. So I think all we can do is wait and see at this point. I do think there some room for compromise on both sides (such as my example above). However, as I've said above, I do not think it's fair to ask them to maintain every version for life. At some point you will have to buy the new version, or simply pay the higher priced lifetime option if you do not want to pay every year (or even better buy it now before the changes take affect 😉).

 

 

[eras]

26 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

here is the cost of an official MS license to run Windows 11

1) You don't think a full OS offers a little more value than a simple local storage solution?
2) Next to nobody buys a full-price retail license. In Europe, completely legal licenses can be had for around 20-30 bucks. And most people get their licenses with their new computer, where a similar price is factored into the PCs sales price (even in America).
3) So for realistically 20-30 bucks, you get a full operating system with a wide range of capabilities and at least 10 years of free updates.
Generally speaking, not a fair comparison. Limetech is MUCH smaller than MS, which means they have a completely different calculation. 

 

26 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

And take look at the pricing structure of Adobe Photoshop.  It appears that the marketing model that they are using  is working in their case.

 

That pricing structure is ridiculously bad for any home user. For that reason, I think I have rarely seeing any non-business user running a legitimate copy of PS. Businesses do, but only because there isn't really any competition (no, GIMP isn't) and because all relevant professionals are trained on that system. Not the case with unRAID, where free alternatives like OMV and FreeNAS exist. Your pricing structure can be expensive when you hold a defacto monopoly, when people don't really have a choice, and when they are making money with your software. None of those things are true for unRAID. 
 

29 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

The bottom line is that Unraid needs a more steady flow of income than a single purchase of a lifetime license can give.

Agreed. And there are many ways to address this. By offering additional services, by running a subscription channel on a video platform with great training content, by offering secure internet routing options, preconfigured software extension options for new users, a paid management app for iOS and Android, by offering really nice merchandise options, by partnering with hardware companies and offering branded products (I would love to see a smartly-designed unRaid-branded case from LianLi or similar--nice NAS cases are surprisingly rare), etc, etc. There were also gaps in their current licensing model that could have been exploited--like selling drive upgrade packages for the Basic version (be able upgrade from 6 to 8 drives max for extra $20 would work for many). In short: By using the fact that this is a system developed by a company and not by a wide ranger of private users and thus building an ecosystem around the core.
All of those can bring additional revenue and users would feel good about paying those additional bucks, because they are offered real value and cool features in return. I would pay for several of the above if it were offered by LT. 

 

43 minutes ago, Frank1940 said:

As side case, I use Bitwarden password manager.  They have a free version that has virtually all of the features that their $10 per year individual subscription plan does.  Those few additional features (two that we use are hardware keys verification and collections) are worth the $20 per year for my wife and myself.  There are many password managers-- some free and some with annual fees ---that I considered.  I evaluated many of these and make a decision that Bitwarden made the most sense for us.  It wasn't the cheapest plan but cost was a consideration. 

My point entirely. The value proposition needs to make sense. And frankly, in the new model, it does not. You think the Starter tier is an attractive option, with just 4 instead of 6 drives and higher costs in the absence of even the slightest new feature that would add value? Unleashed is not as bad, but do you really think it qualifies for "yeah, that's a good deal"? I don't see that. And the Lifetime tier will be beyond anything most home NAS users are willing to pay.
The timing is also bad. This is happening in an environment where users encounter significant price rises in many existing subscriptions, making them think about canceling this or that. And making the proposition of yet another subscription extremely unattractive.

[isvein]

7 hours ago, eras said:

That pricing structure is ridiculously bad for any home user. For that reason, I think I have rarely seeing any non-business user running a legitimate copy of PS. Businesses do, but only because there isn't really any competition (no, GIMP isn't) and because all relevant professionals are trained on that system. Not the case with unRAID, where free alternatives like OMV and FreeNAS exist. Your pricing structure can be expensive when you hold a defacto monopoly, when people don't really have a choice, and when they are making money with your software. None of those things are true for unRAID.

The PS-Photograpy plan is not a bad deal for home-users.
Before when PS was per version payment, I could not afford PS at all, after I could.
When I used primary Mac I used Aperture until Apple killed that, then stand alone Lightroom because it was affordable before the Photography plan made PS way more accessible for us who could not spend that much money at once.

[BartyB]

Eh. This isn't so bad. At least Pro isn't changing. 

[IonelChila]

I think the price of "free" sounds very appealing right now and I can see some people moving to TrueNAS, myself included.  I am ok with paying per license but I am not ok with paying / milking the cow forever. But that's me and I don't use many features from UnRaid so my setup is simple and don't justifies the new licensing model.  Heck I can setup a quick Linux distro, with raid and Webmin on top of it, and call it a day.  

[Bcy]

So, 

I am currently using the PRO version. Will I be upgraded to the new Lifetime version?

Will I still have lifelong access to updates?

[JonathanM]

11 minutes ago, Bcy said:

So, 

I am currently using the PRO version. Will I be upgraded to the new Lifetime version?

Will I still have lifelong access to updates?

This is all answered on the page linked in the pinned post at the top of this thread.

https://unraid.net/blog/pricing-change

[Spec7re]

1 hour ago, IonelChila said:

I think the price of "free" sounds very appealing right now and I can see some people moving to TrueNAS, myself included.  I am ok with paying per license but I am not ok with paying / milking the cow forever. But that's me and I don't use many features from UnRaid so my setup is simple and don't justifies the new licensing model.  Heck I can setup a quick Linux distro, with raid and Webmin on top of it, and call it a day.  

Just playing devil's advocate, but what Lime Tech is doing, isn't actually new. When I was younger most paid for software worked in the manner that Lime Tech is moving towards. You paid for a licence of that version of the software. You received updates for a period of time, however, once a new version came out, you typically had to buy the new version in order to get new features and more updates. If you didn't, you could still keep using the version you bought, but you more than likely would stop receiving updates (either after the new version was released, or after a period of time). It's actually not new, just forgotten by many because the way software is designed and delivered has changed a lot since then.

 

If you already have Unraid, you aren't affected by this change and will keep receiving updates going forward. Even if you bought it after the change, your Unraid server will still keep working, it's not going to stop if you choose not to purchase a licence for the next year's worth of updates.

 

Also it's worth noting that Truenas is largely free thanks to their business/enterprise offerings, which is what's funding development. If it wasn't for that I don't know if Truenas could survive in the long term. iX system's main focus is actually targeting business/enterprise environments, not home users. They've just been generous enough to offer it to home users. Lime Tech on the other hand, is mainly focused on home users, so they do not have that steady source of revenue that comes with selling hardware and support licences, etc...Development is expensive...sooo many free software and open source project eventually die because of the lack of funding. Especially when you consider that attracting and retaining good software developers is going easily run you (on average) on the order of 6 figures worth of salary for each one.

Edited March 6 by Spec7re

[eras]

3 hours ago, Spec7re said:

When I was younger most paid for software worked in the manner that Lime Tech is moving towards. You paid for a licence of that version of the software. You received updates for a period of time, however, once a new version came out, you typically had to buy the new version in order to get new features and more updates.

LT isn't doing that. If they would, I would actually be OK with it. What you describe is pay-by-version. So you buy a license when version X is out, you get a license for that version only and will ideally end up with a final built that is more or less bug-free. That's how software was sold when it still came on CDs or DVDs. That model enables you to really chose freely if you want to pay the upgrade to version Y for new features or stay with what you've got. That's a balanced model that addresses both the company's need for continuous revenue and the user's right to know what he is actually buying and his need to get a fair deal. I believe most users would opt to pay the update fee in such a model, especially if it comes with its own value proposition (as in: new features). Those who don't, however, would not feel like they paid what clearly is a full license fee and are still left with buggy or incomplete software.   
What LT is planning (according to what they wrote), however, is a payment model solely based on time. Meaning: If you buy version 7.xx, there is no guarantee that once your 12 months are up, you will end up with a completely stable version. Actually, in this model, chances are that you end up with a version that has some unfixed issue somewhere. In this model, you would likely have to pay at least one extension to be able to get the stable, final built of the very version X you already paid full price for. And then you might have to refrain from updating to version Y in the middle of your subscription period because otherwise, you run into the very same problem with version Y. Which means the system is very much in favor of the company's needs to gather more revenue and to entice the user to sign up for reoccurring fees, but the user pays the price for that in more than one way.

 

3 hours ago, Spec7re said:

If you already have Unraid, you aren't affected by this change

That's far from written in stone. If this new licensing model fails to create enough revenue (and my gut tells me it will, because Starter is remarkably unattractive and the higher tiers will be too expensive for many users once the annual fees are factored in), the company might have to downsize or it might even fail completely. Which would affect all users, no matter what license they hold.
 

3 hours ago, Spec7re said:

Also it's worth noting that Truenas is largely free thanks to their business/enterprise offerings

Good for them. But then: That's how most profitable companies in the Linux world make their money. And another reason why trying to procure the additional cash from the private user base is a dangerous gamble for LT. TrueNAS is a mighty alternative not only because it is free, but because they make enough money to develop it further.

 

4 hours ago, Spec7re said:

Lime Tech on the other hand, is mainly focused on home users, so they do not have that steady source of revenue...Development is expensive...sooo many free software and open source project eventually die because of the lack of funding.

That's all true, but it does not change the fact that the licensing model needs to make sense not only for the company, but also for the customer. It needs to strike a balance. The product needs to stay competitive in its environment. If it doesn't, if it does not offer a value that matches the fees they charge, the whole thing degrades into a forced sympathy-handout scheme.
And here is the thing: LT is not alone in feeling the squeeze. Many users do as well. Inflation has eaten up salaries, rental fees and energy prices went up by a lot, especially in Europe, existing subscriptions went up across the board. People have less money in their pockets and while we all understand that LT needs to pay their bills, so do we. It isn't like unRAID was a budget offering so far. It simply wasn't. $59-$129 for a license is a decent price for what you get, but it's far from a bargain.
If UnRAID would have switched to a pay-per-main-version model, it would have struck a good balance and also would have given the impression that there is an carefully planned long-term shift to cover the needs of the company. The current change, including the announcement, feels a lot more like a hasty move due to financial difficulties, where the company's financial needs took center stage and the user's interests weren't considered as much. Don't overlook that the company isn't really obligating itself to do anything in return for the update fee. There is no promise regarding the nature of the extended support you pay for every 12 months, no obligation to publish x updates or add this or that feature. It's a cat-in-a-bag-type of purchase--aside from the underlying "we will (maybe) stay in business if you pay"-promise.

[isvein]

Gonna put this out there again:
I dont get why LT dont have an patreon or something similar (found the merch shop tho) so they who want can throw money at LT just as we can throw money directly at the plugin/container devs and people likle SI1/Ed

[mythic]

 

I believe the most significant challenge Unraid faces in attracting more customers is not a lack of marketing but the complexity of its setup. I ventured into it a few months ago, and just the initial step of obtaining a supported USB key required substantial research. Then, when you acquire a modern, reputable brand key, it's often too large for the setup to proceed, necessitating the use of external applications and manual installation to make it work. Expecting people to use 16GB sticks today is akin to asking them to revert to using floppy disks. Beyond that, there's inadequate settings information in the os; the wikis are somewhat outdated. The main resource becomes scouring through old YouTube videos for guidance. The absence of setup wizards and the high risk of errors, along with limitations like no WiFi connectivity from the host, compound the issue. Although I appreciate the operating system, I cannot recommend it to less tech-savvy friends. This, in my opinion, is Unraid's most substantial barrier to increasing revenue, not marketing. Marketing will naturally follow if the software becomes easy to set up and stable. Challenge a typical Windows user to install it with a RAID, a VM, and a Docker container without making mistakes or needing to search the internet for help. Achieving that level of user-friendliness and revenue will follow.

[ConnerVT]

LT is aware of the issues with the USB Creator program.  They have been looking for a developer to rewrite the program (I saw the thread here on this forum).  Along with flash drives having more capacity as the years have passed, many companies have been adding funky partitions to their drives (for various bloatware things like backup software).  A refactoring to a new Creator program will hopefully address this issue.

 

The strength of Unraid is in its configurability.  This is what makes it difficult for things such as setup wizards (and on Linux, WiFi) to exist.  Hardware and desired configuration can vary greatly from one user to another.  Trying to do this would quickly bloat the software (both on flash and in RAM) and force people into a setup that they do not desire.  Unraid is more of a home lab, not a toaster.  If you need simplicity, buy an appliance such as a Synology NAS, where they control the hardware configuration and the infrastructure of how and what you can install and configure.  For Unraid, it is more about the flexibility you have to configure it however you want (and occasionally break things along the way).

[SpencerJ]

8 hours ago, isvein said:

Gonna put this out there again:
I dont get why LT dont have an patreon or something similar (found the merch shop tho) so they who want can throw money at LT just as we can throw money directly at the plugin/container devs and people likle SI1/Ed

 

Thanks! I'll look into setting up a Patreon page. In the meantime, check out our Youtube page and you can support us there: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwisndMIdC6iEX9IyVbxBJQ/join

[jit-010101]

2 hours ago, ConnerVT said:

LT is aware of the issues with the USB Creator program.  They have been looking for a developer to rewrite the program (I saw the thread here on this forum).  

 

Is this already being worked on?

[SpencerJ]

11 minutes ago, jit-010101 said:

 

Is this already being worked on?

 

We are still looking for someone. Interested?

[dopeytree]

Friends nearly everyone commenting here already has unraid and thus free updates FOR LIFE™.

So please just let new folks choose to either pay a yearly fee or they can choose to pay a higher fee to upgrade to lifetime. When we build 2nd servers we can also make the same decisions.

 

If no one pays then unraid won't get any new features...

Edited March 6 by dopeytree

[windsnob]

I've been using Unraid for over ten years now and have gotten tremendous value from my perpetual licenses. Personally, I would prefer if things stayed as they were. I have no need for a fancy website and do not plan to use official support. Better documentation would be nice, but it's not crucial. I'm the type of hacker and tinkerer who gets by on his own. Having said that, after watching the interview with Tom and Tiffany, I understand and support their desire to grow the business and move things forward. The new model seems fair. Hopefully, the team will be able to figure out how to deliver critical bug and security fixes to the last stable release, so no one is left with half-baked and buggy software when they decide not to renew. Not having new features for those who do not renew immediately is absolutely fair. I appreciate Tom's ability to build the business by bootstrapping his hobby. This type of feel-good story makes you think not everything is lost in this world. My slight concern is that if the new business model proves successful, eventually there will be a VC or an enterprise willing to make an offer to Tom that he would be silly to turn down. Everyone deserves a retirement, after all. And after the takeover, all bets are off since only profit matters to them. Anyway, I wish Tom, Tiffany, and the team all the best and, hopefully, mild business success so that the existing users can continue enjoying the great product. Cheers from Ireland

[Spec7re]

1 hour ago, windsnob said:

I've been using Unraid for over ten years now and have gotten tremendous value from my perpetual licenses. Personally, I would prefer if things stayed as they were. I have no need for a fancy website and do not plan to use official support. Better documentation would be nice, but it's not crucial. I'm the type of hacker and tinkerer who gets by on his own. Having said that, after watching the interview with Tom and Tiffany, I understand and support their desire to grow the business and move things forward. The new model seems fair. Hopefully, the team will be able to figure out how to deliver critical bug and security fixes to the last stable release, so no one is left with half-baked and buggy software when they decide not to renew. Not having new features for those who do not renew immediately is absolutely fair. I appreciate Tom's ability to build the business by bootstrapping his hobby. This type of feel-good story makes you think not everything is lost in this world. My slight concern is that if the new business model proves successful, eventually there will be a VC or an enterprise willing to make an offer to Tom that he would be silly to turn down. Everyone deserves a retirement, after all. And after the takeover, all bets are off since only profit matters to them. Anyway, I wish Tom, Tiffany, and the team all the best and, hopefully, mild business success so that the existing users can continue enjoying the great product. Cheers from Ireland

Very well said!

I too am of the same mind set. After watching the interview I could clearly see that Tom, Tiffany and the entire team actually care, not only about the product, but their customer's as well. I didn't get any vibes that this is just some sort of cash grab to get rich type scenario. They want to grow their business so that they can continue to improve their product and offer a solid solution to their current and future customers. No one, I mean no one wants to see changes in pricing, I include myself in this regard. However it's the necessary evil (so to speak) to continue to grow one's business, especially if you need to hire more people and make the company grow for the better. In general people do not like change and for some, it's just seen negatively, no matter how much you try to do it the right way. I think this situation is fair and I want to see them grow and make Unraid better and better with each release. I have no doubts that as time goes on Lime Tech will review and adjust as needed (as any good business should). It may work, it may not, but they have to start somewhere and go from there.

 

I do agree that there should be a solution for those who do not wish to renew each year to have security updates and fixes to major bugs for a period of time after the fact. I don't doubt that Lime Tech is looking into this, they've said as much with the FAQ, now we just need to give them the time to review and figure out how to make it happen.

 

All in all I do wish the entire team at Lime Tech all the best and hopefully this will help grow the company and continue to make Unraid better and better.

[Jclendineng]

Ultimately don't care what LT does but I have to say, subscription makes a lot more sense than current model.  From a business standpoint I have always questioned the current model, 1 time purchases are never profitable. The 80 or whatever I paid for my license is not going to sustain the business. They HAVE to come up with a value proposition that includes a paid model, and this may or may not be the ticket, we will see. It's a good start though. I hate subscriptions as much as the next person but everyone has support contracts, think of it as a support contract. All that said, the bar will need raised to make the residual sub worth it for people.

 

TLDR; Residual income is needed to keep LT afloat, this is probably a great plan

[ddube]

18 hours ago, Jclendineng said:

Ultimately don't care what LT does but I have to say, subscription makes a lot more sense than current model.  From a business standpoint I have always questioned the current model, 1 time purchases are never profitable. The 80 or whatever I paid for my license is not going to sustain the business. They HAVE to come up with a value proposition that includes a paid model, and this may or may not be the ticket, we will see. It's a good start though. I hate subscriptions as much as the next person but everyone has support contracts, think of it as a support contract. All that said, the bar will need raised to make the residual sub worth it for people.

 

TLDR; Residual income is needed to keep LT afloat, this is probably a great plan

 

Well that's one problem. There is no roadmap, no clear indication of what will happen and when. Currently, they are releasing update when they see fit. If there is a structure, we are not aware of it.

 

They need to provide deadlines.

[jit-010101]

On 3/6/2024 at 9:54 PM, SpencerJ said:

 

We are still looking for someone. Interested?

 

yes absolutely, did a quick search but didn't find the topic for the requirements

[SpencerJ]

On 3/4/2024 at 8:08 PM, ddube said:

I don't know who is in charge of the marketing at limetech but holy cow it is really bad. You should hire someone who knows how to do this.

Damn- I'll have to add this to my 'MeanTweets' share. 

 

1 hour ago, ddube said:

 

Well that's one problem. There is no roadmap, no clear indication of what will happen and when. Currently, they are releasing update when they see fit. If there is a structure, we are not aware of it.

 

They need to provide deadlines.

On 3/4/2024 at 8:08 PM, ddube said:

With this subscription model (and no support for security fixes), I will be moving to something else even if I paid for a "legacy" tier.

 

Didn't you say you were leaving? Something about us trying to gouge everyone? (Seriously?)

 

If you're going to stick around, great! Please review our Community Guidelines before making another post. 

 

 

[SpencerJ]

2 minutes ago, jit-010101 said:

 

yes absolutely, did a quick search but didn't find the topic for the requirements

 

Woohoo! Please see here: 

Hope to hear from you 🙂

 

 

[ddube]

18 hours ago, SpencerJ said:

Damn- I'll have to add this to my 'MeanTweets' share. 

 

 

Didn't you say you were leaving? Something about us trying to gouge everyone? (Seriously?)

 

If you're going to stick around, great! Please review our Community Guidelines before making another post. 

 

 

Well, it is true that it needs to be better. I didn't know you were in charge of marketing and I'm pretty sure your signature is recent.

 

That being said, I will stick around until the change are in place. It is really nice seeing that you don't need my money and really want me to leave. It is people like me that bring new cash in the pipeline when I refer a friend, that refer a friend and that refer a friend. Multiply that per 2-3-4-5-6.. and it makes a lot of money. But that won't happen again and I'm pretty sure it will be the same with more people.

 

Anyway, why changing the subject ? It's all about the subscription model (or the annual update purchase, whatever you call it). There is no roadmap from LT. Why someone will pay for a year of update if there is only 1-2 updates during that year ? Why someone will continuously pay when there is no roadmap and date on new features or list of bugfixes ? That's why it needs to have deadlines.

 

Like I said and others too, there is other ways to do money instead. If you prefer to have less customer with that pricing model, then it's your choice. Ultimately, this will lead customer to the exit.