Unraid is Good But....

[Thunderhead]

Honestly, Unraid is good so far.  

 

I've been using Windows Server for years but after doing some research for my home NAS I came across TrueNAS Core, TrueNAS Scale, UNRAID, OpenMediaVault, etc.  I decided to give one of these dedicated NAS operating systems a shot.  I decided on UNRAID as it was supposed to have the most user friendly experience of the options.  Not sure I'd call any of them user friendly on hindsight.  TBH I hadn't touched linux since 2002/2003 and was... rusty... to say the least.  But when I think of 'User Friendly' I think of the general computer user, not experienced computer hobbyists/professionals.

 

I want to purchase UNRAID but man the price is killing me.  I've got 11 devices attached so I'm already looking at the 'Unleashed License' for $109 +tax etc., but that only comes with updates for a year.  After that year what happens?  Does my system slowly march towards becoming a useless brick when all the Docker/VM support moves forward without me?  So, then I think maybe the better option would be the 'Lifetime License' at $249 +tax etc. for the lifetime updates.  But holy crap... $250 for NAS software?  I can get a Windows Server 2019 key for $16 +tax with support for YEARS and YEARS.  Admittedly, UNRAID has better/different features but not $230 dollars worth ffs.  I could just run BTRFS on Windows and be basically there.

 

So there is my dilemma.  Now here are the core questions;

 

-What happens after the '1 year' of updates to your system?  Would I have to purchase another $109 +tax 'Unleashed License' to get updates?

-Does UNRAID ever go on sale?

-Does anyone got a discount code or something?

-If everything else fails, should I just go back to Windows Server?  Is there something else I should try before giving up?

Edited April 24 by Thunderhead
Clarity

[cz13]

here you will find some answers:

https://unraid.net/blog/new-pricing

 

 

 

[SpencerJ]

50 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

-What happens after the '1 year' of updates to your system?  Would I have to purchase another $109 +tax 'Unleashed License' to get updates?

 

Thanks a lot for trying us out!

 

The annual extension fee is just $36/year for Starter and Unleashed licenses. It is also optional.

 

If you choose to not extend your license, you still own a copy of the software at the current version that was available at the time of the lapse, but your update eligibility changes. 

If your license extension has lapsed, you can download patch releases within the same minor OS version that was available to you at the time of the lapse. 

For example: Your system is eligible for Unraid 7.1.0 when your extension lapses. You qualify for the remaining patch releases of the Unraid 7.1.x series. Once Unraid 7.2.0 is released, the 7.1.x patch releases will only include security patches. Once Unraid 7.3 is released, version 7.1.0 will be EOL, and there will be no more 7.1.x updates.

Our naming convention for releases is: <major>.<minor>.<patch>. 

 

You can choose not to extend and wait until we release some new feature you like and then jump back in. You can also start with Unleashed and later upgrade to Lifetime.

 

Quote

-Does UNRAID ever go on sale?

-Does anyone got a discount code or something?

 

We typically run sales over the Summer and over the Black Friday-Cyber Monday weekend in November. 

[Thunderhead]

Thanks for the replies so far @SpencerJ and @cz13.

 

I understand what @SpencerJ said but that doesn't really answer some of my concerns.  Maybe I could do without some new feature updates and MAYBE do without some security updates for a bit, but would my Plugins and Dockers still get updates from the Apps page?  Wouldn't that inevitably lead to Plugins and Dockers being incompatible with the older OS as time goes forward?

 

@cz13, man, it looks like I just missed out on the 'Legacy' pricing which would have been FAR more approachable.  I'm just not there I think.  IDK if I can bring myself to add another 'subscription' to my life.  I hate the ones I forced into now, and $250 is just... too damn much.

 

I wouldn't trust an OS that isn't getting updates on any of my machines.  So it looks like I'm stuck either with an annual subscription or a massive upfront cost.

 

@SpencerJ

45 minutes ago, SpencerJ said:

You can choose not to extend and wait until we release some new feature you like and then jump back in. You can also start with Unleashed and later upgrade to Lifetime.

   Do you know what the Pricing for that looks like by chance?  Maybe purchasing 'Unleased License' in year one and upgrading to 'Lifetime License' in year two would be more approachable.

 

Guess I'm going to put together a rig to move my data off of the UNRAID machine (I haven't set up a back up system yet so its all on one machine for now).  If the upgrade path doesn't end up working for me then I'll have to check back for the sales if I can remember.  See if I can justify the Lifetime price then.

Edited April 24 by Thunderhead
Clarity

[SpencerJ]

38 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

Do you know what the Pricing for that looks like by chance?  Maybe purchasing 'Unleased License' in year one and upgrading to 'Lifetime License' in year two would be more approachable.

Unleashed to Lifetime upgrade is $149 via https://unraid.net/pricing. 

 

38 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

would my Plugins and Dockers still get updates from the Apps page?  Wouldn't that inevitably lead to Plugins and Dockers being incompatible with the older OS as time goes forward?

 

Docker containers generally don't care what version the OS is running, so they would likely install and update fine until Docker makes some sort of incompatible change that requires a new version.

Plugins are created by volunteers from the community and it is entirely up to those volunteers how many older versions they want to support. In general it depends on what the plugin does and whether it interacts with an area of Unraid that changed significantly then they may be inclined to drop older versions. If "supporting" a plugin on older versions doesn't cause them any headaches they may be inclined to do it longer.

[primeval_god]

45 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

Maybe I could do without some new feature updates and MAYBE do without some security updates for a bit, but would my Plugins and Dockers still get updates from the Apps page?  Wouldn't that inevitably lead to Plugins and Dockers being incompatible with the older OS as time goes forward?

Keep in mind that the "Apps Page" is actually a third party plugin called community applications (though it is developed more closely with Limetech than most). It acts as a convenient way to discover and install containers and plugins but it is not the only way to do so.

 

Also speaking from personal experience I have in the past typically not run the latest version of unRAID (I usually stay a version back). The lack of security updates for older versions (which was how it used to work before the licensing change) was rarely something that concerned me. unRAID is designed to run from within a home network, with minimal exposure to the outside world.

[Thunderhead]

1 hour ago, primeval_god said:

Also speaking from personal experience I have in the past typically not run the latest version of unRAID (I usually stay a version back). The lack of security updates for older versions (which was how it used to work before the licensing change) was rarely something that concerned me. unRAID is designed to run from within a home network, with minimal exposure to the outside world.

While I'm sure lots of people run it this way, I do a bunch of remote access and things that use internet access.

[Thunderhead]

1 hour ago, SpencerJ said:

Unleashed to Lifetime upgrade is $149 via https://unraid.net/pricing. 

Well that'll teach me to scroll down to, and read, the FAQ more often, thanks for keeping me humble lol.

[primeval_god]

On 4/24/2024 at 4:12 PM, Thunderhead said:

While I'm sure lots of people run it this way, I do a bunch of remote access and things that use internet access.

Having Docker containers and VMs that access the internet (but are not accessible from the internet) is generally fine, they are isolated from the host os to varying degrees. As for remote access the recommended way for unRAID is using a VPN into your home network as that is the most secure. Some people expose services in VMs and containers using a secured reverse proxy, which can be ok if you know what you are doing and are not exposing the unRAID host OS itself. 

[caplam]

it's perfectly fine to expose services through a reverse proxy. For unraid gui itself it's generally advised to access it through a vpn.

[Thunderhead]

VPN was one of the first things I started setting up.  Not sure I like my current solution.  Kind of wish TeamViewer had a docker.  Thanks for the heads up though.

[Gragorg]

Wireguard is built into unraid and is my go to for accessing my server from a phone or another computer.  It also allows you access other machines on the same network.

[docbillnet]

On 4/24/2024 at 12:26 PM, Thunderhead said:

I want to purchase UNRAID but man the price is killing me.  I've got 11 devices attached so I'm already looking at the 'Unleashed License' for $109 +tax etc., but that only comes with updates for a year.  After that year what happens?  Does my system slowly march towards becoming a useless brick when all the Docker/VM support moves forward without me?  So, then I think maybe the better option would be the 'Lifetime License' at $249 +tax etc. for the lifetime updates.  But holy crap... $250 for NAS software?  I can get a Windows Server 2019 key for $16 +tax with support for YEARS and YEARS.  Admittedly, UNRAID has better/different features but not $230 dollars worth ffs.  I could just run BTRFS on Windows and be basically there.

 

Keep in mind that $16 Windows Server license is probably not a legal licence.  You try using it a corporate computer, and just see how hard the auditing hits you...

$249/lifetime per NAS is a HUGE price.    Now try scaling that up by 30% for those of us paying in CAD.

I would certainly entertain pirating, using another, NAS software, ...   To avoid that cost.

But be realistic.  The main thing you need that lifetime license for is you think the yearly cost is going to be more, any you simply do not want to risk having a known security issue with your NAS.   Certainly, you can continue to load new docker containers.  But do you really risk doing so, if your NAS could have a known security exploit?

But what are your options?  You can build your own NAS.   Really use RAID 10, and it will be far more reliable.   Or you can use TrueNAS, Terramaster OS, etc, or one of the many other free NAS options available.  Or you could just put it all into one BTRFS RAID protected volume.   You have lots of options.  The question is which if Unraid meets your needs best at a cost you are willing to pay.

Terramaster OS is basically a RAID 5+1, RAID 5+6, or solution.  Neither of which any data model security expert will tell you to use.  TrueNAS supports all the enterprise acceptable RAID levels.   Unraid uses a unique parity solution.   Of these three I would trust my data to TrueNAS or Unraid.   But if I want to maximumize storage I either need to build my own, or use Unraid.  With 2x14TB,2x8TB, TrueNAS will give me reliable 22TB.  Unraid 30TB.   So if I want storage I go with Unraid, if I want speed TrueNAS.  The cost of larger size NAS + more disks so I could use TrueNAS costs more that an Unraid license.   So either way it come down to money.   The cost of my time to maintain a custom system is the most expensive of all options.

 

[Thunderhead]

Thanks @docbillnet for the reply.  I too ran through the competing options, UNRAID is a great choice in general but I quickly ran into the cliff that is the Price.  I really should have checked before I started but I figured it would cost something closer to Plex Lifetime.  If only.

 

I've built my 2nd NAS already (originally meant to be my offsite backup) and I installed ProxMox with a TrueNAS VM and I'm moving files over right now.  I didn't like the 'answers' support gave me on the few things I contacted lime about.  Most of the limits I ran into with support were because 'A trail key can't do that.'  I saw the trial as a working test and if I can't test or do things a full license can because its a trail key... WTF if the point of the trial then?  I'm guessing these limitations are to prevent piracy IDK.

 

I'm hoping to maybe come back to UNRAID if/when I can catch a Lifetime License at a discount.  Make that bitter medicine go down a bit smoother.

 

I don't know what I'd do differently in Lime's shoes.  I understand their going concern value and profitability issues at a glance.  Recurring charges are gold for valuation and helps improve liquidity which help move the company into a low cap position to either secure the company's future or improve investor outlook.  If Lime was still in a venture cap situation maybe they could keep prices lower to try and maximize user base before their IPO but that's not the case.

 

I can get a couple more hard drives out of some old corpo server, most likely some cast offs from work, or for less than 1/2 the cost of a Lifetime License.  I just don't like the idea of having to pay for a defacto 'subscription' to get updates.  So this issue of mine means I'm looking at lifetime license or nothing.  I get that its 100% a personal issue so don't take my point of view as an attack on Lime or any of your personal purchase choices.

 

Honestly, the community so far has been great.  Probably the single best part of my experience with UNRAID.  So thank all of you kind people for all you've contributed to my journey.

 

I hope your drives fail rarely, if ever, and your parity is always valid.

Edited April 30 by Thunderhead
corrections

[itimpi]

6 hours ago, Thunderhead said:

Most of the limits I ran into with support were because 'A trail key can't do that.' 

Like to know what those limits were.   The only limitation I know about on a trial licence is the need to have internet access available every time the array is started to validate the trial licence.   From all other aspects it is meant to be fully functional.

[Thunderhead]

Yep that's my first one.  Here is what I've got so far.

 

- Can't test offline

- Can't Transfer License to a new USB

- Can't use Wifi even after added it (prob linked to the 1st one)

- If you make a new trial USB you can't transfer settings

Edited Tuesday at 04:29 PM by Thunderhead

[primeval_god]

46 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

- Can't use Wifi even after added it (prob linked to the 1st one)

Wifi support is not a feature of unRAID.

[itimpi]

48 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

- If you make a new trial USB you can't transfer settings

You can transfer all settings except disk assignments (assuming you are transferring to another trial licence).  You can redo the disk assignments and Unraid will pick them up with their data intact.

[Thunderhead]

26 minutes ago, primeval_god said:

Wifi support is not a feature of unRAID.

Yeah but you can add it. 

[Thunderhead]

24 minutes ago, itimpi said:

You can transfer all settings except disk assignments (assuming you are transferring to another trial licence).  You can redo the disk assignments and Unraid will pick them up with their data intact.

That's not what happened for me. 

[primeval_god]

13 minutes ago, Thunderhead said:

Yeah but you can add it. 

Not through any means that i am aware of. My point is, if wifi is something integral to your setup, you should not assume that it not working is a limitation of the trial. unRAID has never supported wifi officially or unofficially and its not on the roadmap, so I would not base a build on the assumption the you will be able to get it working.

[serpro]

OMG, I just discovered that the pricing has changed...

How did I not see this announcement a few months ago while I was still evaluating my options is beyond me, and now the price of joining the unraid club makes me rethink my options altogether and I'm back to square one; only now the dilemma is - pay a ton of money for the license or go with the free stuff that's out there but which doesn't 100% meet my needs.

Stumbling upon this has made ruined my day 

[Thunderhead]

On 4/30/2024 at 1:07 PM, primeval_god said:

Not through any means that i am aware of. My point is, if wifi is something integral to your setup, you should not assume that it not working is a limitation of the trial. unRAID has never supported wifi officially or unofficially and its not on the roadmap, so I would not base a build on the assumption the you will be able to get it working.

If I had a full license that wouldn't require calling home constantly then it works fine.  Something with Lime's Authentication servers doesn't like the wifi.  

 

The wifi works in every other aspect but this.  So it's a trail license problem. 

[JonathanM]

On 5/1/2024 at 3:31 PM, Thunderhead said:

The wifi works in every other aspect but this. 

Can you please explain what you mean? The only way to use wifi with Unraid's base OS is to attach a wifi to ethernet bridge and utilize the ethernet port on the Unraid pc.

[cj0r]

On 4/29/2024 at 3:52 PM, docbillnet said:

The cost of my time to maintain a custom system is the most expensive of all options.

 

Boom you can ignore everything else in your post and just stick with this line right here to see why I currently own 3 Unraid licenses. I can setup an array faster and more effectively than any other option available. Less tinkering and research required, it all just makes sense. Now granted I've been using this platform since... 2008? makes my opinion a little biased since I'm not experiencing the interface/intricacies the same way a first time user would... but any one I have suggested the platform to is still a user and had no trouble almost immediately catching on. This is invaluable.

 

I recently (2 months ago) revisited TrueNAS (after years since trying FreeNAS) and although I found it powerful and fairly intuitive, the amount of time it took me to get it to a point similar to an Unraid environment was significant.

 

So as you said, time is a major factor when deciding. $250 for a lifetime license does not feel like that much money to me considering what you're getting. Sure there's free alternatives but I am of the opinion that you should be paying each of those devs money anyway if you believe in their product and want to support their work.