64 bit Unraid


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Ddeeds and I are working on a 64 bit version of unraid which will run on a Linux distro of choice.

 

We are looking for community input on which OS you want, it will ideally used systemd though.

 

Do you want a desktop? Gnome / KDE etc

Do you want any apps preinstalled or just vanilla.

KVM and xen will be enabled by default, no compiling required to use it as a hypervisor.

 

We are looking at arch or opensuse. My preference is Arch, but it's because it's what I know. If the community are begging for something else, well, I'll learn that.

 

This means you have a full Linux distro with unraid baked right in. Including emhttp. Who's interested?

 

 

Why are we doing this? To make unraid into the product it could be, not have to wait for updates from tom to update to mainstream kernels which provide a tasty performance increase. Also built in hypervisor and desktop frameworks are a bonus. You could use unraid box, whether it supports vt-d or not, as an all in one raid / xbmc solution.

 

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I'm fairly new to the linux world, so I thought I would jump head first into linux with Arch.  It's been almost 4 months now and I'm loving it.

 

So I vote for a vanilla Arch install with Gnome.

 

This project seems very interested and I will be keeping a close watch on it.

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Ddeeds and I, mainly him tbh, are working on a 64 bit version of unraid which will run on a Linux distro of choice.

 

We are looking for community input on which OS you want, it will ideally used systemd though.

 

Do you want a desktop? Gnome / KDE etc

Do you want any apps preinstalled or just vanilla.

KVM and xen will be enabled by default, no compiling required to use it as a hypervisor.

 

We are looking at arch or opensuse.

 

This means you have a full Linux distro with unraid baked right in. Including emhttp. Who's interested?

 

 

Why are we doing this? To make unraid into the product it could be, not have to wait for updates from tom to update to mainstream kernels which provide a tasty performance increase. Also built in hypervisor and desktop frameworks are a bonus. You could use unraid box, whether it supports vt-d or not, as an all in one raid / xbmc solution.

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

My vote is OpenSuse.

it is a great distro, the new KDE is very good IMHO.

it comes with a full set of GUI or GUI like tools built right in.

supports Xen/Kvm fully.

and works very well from start to finish.

I have been playing with it the whole month and so far have nothing really bad to say about it.

it has some issues but it mostly because what I am trying to accomplished and that is to build a system that would give me the functionality similar to unraid.

my hardware does not have full support for IOMMU thus virtualizing unraid is not an option at this time. but if we can get unraid backed in it would solve my and I am sure  many other people in here problems much better then a virtual box plug-in

 

 

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CentOS or Debian gets my vote also. Arch would also be fine although I have no experience with it.  Whichever one runs the leanest. I understand Arch can run pretty lean.

 

As far as a desktop, why would we need that?  Aside from unRAID I have used Ubuntu Server and earlier than that Windows Home Server. None of them needed a desktop environment per se.

 

Servers don't need to be pretty.  unRAID is a perfect appliance as is although I think something with btrfs as an upgrade to reiserfs might be cool.  Not sure what scope you are leaning towards here.

 

Kryspy

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I was wondering what the current list of possible AMD motherboard was. Are there any currently undergoing test? If so, please post what models.

 

-PGPfan

+1

I'd rather prefer a server headless install. No need for a desktop, one pci slot more, one gpu less

 

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I was hoping to see the xenserver guide come back once all this mess was sorted out and the toys were put back in the pram, all I wanted was xenserver running unRAID and one maybe two other vm's but guessing this isn't going to happen now you guys have set your sights on undermining / bastardising Toms platform.

 

I want something headless and have no need for a desktop on a server.

 

Wish you luck and curious to see how far this gets before another paddy / strop is had, good luck guys.

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I was hoping to see the xenserver guide come back once all this mess was sorted out and the toys were put back in the pram, all I wanted was xenserver running unRAID and one maybe two other vm's but guessing this isn't going to happen now you guys have set your sights on undermining / bastardising Toms platform.

 

I want something headless and have no need for a desktop on a server.

 

Wish you luck and curious to see how far this gets before another paddy / strop is had, good luck guys.

 

+1. My thoughts exactly.

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Ddeeds and I are working on a 64 bit version of unraid

 

As is Tom.  While you can certainly create a product to compete with UnRAID, I don't think you can call it "UnRAID"  :)

 

An open source "UnRAID - equivalent" that could run without being tied to a specific flash drive (i.e. could boot from either a flash drive or a hard disk) would certainly be convenient.  A hard disk install running under a full Linux distro certainly has some intriguing possibilities.

 

But despite your critique of Tom's relatively relaxed release pace, and the minimalist nature of UnRAID, it does have one very important attribute:  it is absolutely rock-solid reliable in its basic NAS functionality -- and maintaining that reliability is clearly at the top of his list when making changes.    Clearly there are issues ... but they almost all have to do with various add-ins.    Any competitive product will have a ways to go to meet that level of trust and reliability.

 

In any event, the UnRAID forum does not seem to be the right venue for discussing your plans for a competitive product  8)

 

 

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I was hoping to see the xenserver guide come back once all this mess was sorted out and the toys were put back in the pram, all I wanted was xenserver running unRAID and one maybe two other vm's but guessing this isn't going to happen now you guys have set your sights on undermining / bastardising Toms platform.

 

I want something headless and have no need for a desktop on a server.

 

Wish you luck and curious to see how far this gets before another paddy / strop is had, good luck guys.

 

+1. My thoughts exactly.

 

+2

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I ask from a position of relative ignorance... (since the original post was not clear to me on this point)

 

Is the idea that this would some how integrate Limetech's uNRAID into something bigger (therefore it would still be using unRAID as we users currently obtain it from Limetech), or is it completely independent of Limetech and not using licensed unRAID.  If the latter, then I agree with garycase - this is not the place for such a discussion.

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I ask from a position of relative ignorance... (since the original post was not clear to me on this point)

 

Is the idea that this would some how integrate Limetech's uNRAID into something bigger (therefore it would still be using unRAID as we users currently obtain it from Limetech), or is it completely independent of Limetech and not using licensed unRAID.  If the latter, then I agree with garycase - this is not the place for such a discussion.

 

I think the idea is to build on the original unraid, but  give it an option of running in a full distro mode.

Running a full blown kernel.

This would allow a full unraid functionality and also good virtualization platform for everything else. Many people here have issues with virtualizing unraid do to it need of direct controller access. If you could run it as dom0 it would solve a lot of issues.

 

As it stand now you need a customized unraid build to run virtualized and a lot of plugins to add functionality  .

 

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I do not think many of you understand.

 

1. They will bring business too Tom, not away. They are using his licensing. Therefore if someone wants more than basic, they have to PAY TOM FOR IT.

 

2. unRAID is LINUX. It happens to run on Slackware.

 

3. Tom's version of Linux (and the packages installed) are not custom written or maintained by him.

 

4. unRAID isn't updated or patched with security fixes to the Kernel or the packages. In fact, many of the packages are older than what even Red Hat runs. unRAID 5.0 is Slackware 13.1 (3+ years old). Enterprises would not install his software in data centers due to the security flaws / risks. If you are concerned about security, unRAID is not a good choice. Red Hat, Debian, etc. apply patches and bug fixes. unRAID does not.

 

5. The code for unRAID is open sourced and GNU licensed. If you look at your unRAID box in the /usr/src/ folder you will see it. if you take a look, Tom modified existing raid code in the Linux kernel and added a few tweaks. He has not changed the code in a long time. What he has been doing is updating packages or turning on features in the kernel.

 

6. If fortune 1,000 companies can run 100+ Mission Critical / High Availability VMs on a single machine  RAID, ZFS, EMC, etc... Your Server can easily handle running a few hard drives and whatever else you want with no problems.

 

7. Tom didn't write the Linux Kernel, Samba, NFS, mysql, etc. the open source community did and he is not doing any quality control. The open source / business community is. Could you install a newer version of PHP, Mysql, GCC, Python? Yes. Does it bomb out or delete data on a raid? NO. Why? Because those packages go through extensiving alpha, beta, release candidates and testing before released.

 

8. unRAID isn't any more stable that ZFS, raid (1-10), btrfs, etc. Updating the Linux Kernel or packages or using the power of your CPU / Linux Kernel isn't going to hurt your data or make the Linux Kernel destroy unRAID.

 

9. nas4free, FreeNAS, Provox SE, etc. run BSD or Linux with updates. Both the kernels and the packages. Do you see people fleeing those or Fortune 1000 companies not using NFS4, PHP 5.4.4, etc. (standard, well used and tested 1,000,000,000 times over)? What about your Enterprise Servers at work which do storage, email, etc. with a desktop fine and never crash?

 

10. How is it that everyone can run unRAID in a VM on ESXi or Xen (Both Linux), pass through video cards,  tuners, NICs, run windows, OSX, BSD, Linux, etc. and that is okay / considered stable but enabling Xen / KVM in the Linux kernel on an unRAID server is bad?

 

I dunno... I think there are a lot of people here who don't understand what / how unRAID works and think Tom wrote the entire Linux code and all the various software it runs.

 

My latest consulting gig, wr consolidated 1,200 servers and ran 100s of VM in all various forms of storage. They also ran apps, desktops, monitoring software, etc. on top of all that. lf its good enough for Fortune 100 companies and BILLIONS of other servers running Linux... its good enough for me.

 

Also, there is a wiki on this site about running unRAID in a full Slackware Distro (64 bit too). People need to chill out and quit assuming the worst. Compile unRAID code in Linux Kernel, install Linux, copy emhttp over (webgui and how / where Tom validates the key)... Boom it works in Slackware or any Linux Distro. Its GNU licensed so it should be this way. You people realize that Ubuntu, Red Hat, Slackware, etc. all get their software from the same place, right? Like the rest of GNU software, unRAID is not Distro specfic.

 

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root on a ramdisk is what attracted me to unRAID in in the first place.

 

The only thing my file server has that I need to concern myself with is the data drives.

 

I love unRAID on a root ramdrive.

I do wish for more sometimes, but for the file server duties alone, I like it as is.

 

It would be cool to put it on a heavier distro i.e. combining XBMC and unRAID.

 

In the meantime, if someone provided the details of what's needed for Xen/KVM virtualization to Tom, I'm sure it could be added.

 

There's also the possibility of unionfs or aufs letting unRAID work like Knoppix or something Similar. unRAID in ram with other static data on a cache drive or apps drive.

 

Questions I have about this customization are, 

how is the user interface and array management to be handled?

Are there plans to keep emhttp/shfs or manage the array another way?

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grumpy-

 

It's all good man.  It would be better to work together, but let me know if you need any changes to the core s/w.

 

I would love to work with you. I'm donating my Linux and Virtualization Experience / Knowledge to assist you in making unRAID even better. It will put you at an advantage over NAS4Free, FreeNAS, etc.

 

What I would have you do:

 

1. The udev version you are currently using is ancient. Eventually you will need to change the way emhttp is using it and looking at the serial number and the vendor and product ID of the USB stick. Once you are past udev version 172, usb_id is built into udevadm and no longer a separate program. Even Slackware 14.0 (which is ancient) is past udev 172. You could change emhttp to use a udevadm command itself instead of it's "sister" usb_id one. It would still be backward compatible with older unRAID versions and accomplish what you need.

 

2. Turn on KVM (as a Host and Guest) - Has no effect on people running "bare metal".

 

3. Turn on Xen (as a Host and Guest) - Has no effect on people running "bare metal".

 

4. Turn on the KVM and Xen Paravirtualized Drivers, consoles, etc. - As Modules

 

5. Turn on 9P Network File System. It's let's VMs connect to the Host (unRAID) at blazing speed (better than NFS and Samba).

 

6. You need to plan / prepare how plugins work once you convert to 64 bit. You are going to make life hell for everyone when you have 32 bit / 64 bit apps / plugins floating. It can / will crash systems if you try / install a 64 bit plugin in a 32 bit unRAID and vice versa (unless you have multilibs and settings turn on it in the kernel for 32 bit apps to run on 64 bit kernel).

 

Due to number 6 above... I would leave the plugins as they are in 32 Bit world and move to a new one when 64 bit comes out. My advice is...

 

7. I would consider a switch over to a more user friendly (for you, plugin writers, customers) Linux Distro like Debian or CentOS (both are ROCK SOLID stability wise and they are VERY conservative on what packages they run).

 

8. You have unRAID access your unRAID "repo" for updates / upgrades and the packages that plugins need / use. It makes life so much easier for you, plugin maintainers and the end users. For example, mySQL 5.6.15 comes out and tested by the various Plugin Maintainers. The file only has to be updated in one place, the unRAID "repo". Users would all pull from and run the same version (which doesn't happen today and causes major havoc).

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root on a ramdisk is what attracted me to unRAID in in the first place.

The only thing my file server has that I need to concern myself with is the data drives.

 

I love unRAID on a root ramdrive.

I do wish for more sometimes, but for the file server duties alone, I like it as is.

 

You can accomplish this and run something other than Slackware. Ubuntu, Arch, openSUSE, etc. also load most everything in a ramdisk. Like what unRAID does, you could put everything in it.

 

It would be cool to put it on a heavier distro i.e. combining XBMC and unRAID.

 

Sure. You pick and choose what you want. If you want mysql running on the unRAID server instead of a VM, install it. If you want XBMC, install it. If you want a mail server, install it. If you do not want a Desktop, do not install it.

 

In the meantime, if someone provided the details of what's needed for Xen/KVM virtualization to Tom, I'm sure it could be added

I will share what I have with Tom.

 

There's also the possibility of unionfs or aufs letting unRAID work like Knoppix or something Similar. unRAID in ram with other static data on a cache drive or apps drive.

 

My advice would be to enable 9P with VIRTIO as well.

 

We are only talking in MBs here. Therefore, you would use your same unRAID USB Flash Drive or if you want... install it to a drive on the system.

 

Questions I have about this customization are, 

how is the user interface and array management to be handled?

 

You would manage the array the same as you always did via the unRAID WebGUI. I am including webmin to manage everything else. You can manage MYSQL, Printers, LVMs, Users, SSH, Telnet, Apache, Cron Jobs, FTP, Package Management (install and removal), etc. all in location.

 

Are there plans to keep emhttp/shfs or manage the array another way?

 

That's 100% dependent on Tom.

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2. Turn on KVM (as a Host and Guest) - Has no effect on people running "bare metal".

 

3. Turn on Xen (as a Host and Guest) - Has no effect on people running "bare metal".

 

4. Turn on the KVM and Xen Paravirtualized Drivers, consoles, etc. - As Modules

 

 

Hi Grumpybutfun

 

You probably didn't see the post a few weeks(?) back, but in one of the threads (can't remember which) Tom asked what flags he needed to set to enable these things but asked the they be emailed to him.

 

If you email these to him we might be lucky and they might make the next point release. His email address is support@lime-technology.com.

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Hi Grumpy, doses this mean that your going to be posting your excellent xenserver guide back up as I was aiming to follow / learn from that to install xenserver with a unRAID VM and maybe a couple of other VM's for plug-ins, 1 additional VM to start.

 

If this is the case I'm looking forward to seeing it and cant thank you enough, quite excited lol, also if I were you I would try not to take what every moron says to heart, the unRAID community as a whole is a great place to be but there are people that just don't like change or even the hint of it.

 

Change for the right reason is good, change for the sake of it isn't, lets not stagnate.

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