Norco 4224 Thread

[hwilker]

Thanks Raj.

 

I agree. I'm going to give the monoprice SIL3132 cards a go. I already have one that seems to work fine. Four total would get me to 22, which is both the maximum 4.7 can handle and way more than I need for the forseeable future.

 

The funny thing is neither of the Supermicro cards are defective when used alone. I probably can't return the one I just bought because I've flashed it with the .15 bios. So maybe I'll put in on offer in the appropriate forum here along with a money-back guarantee in case it doesn't work for someone.

 

The only problem I foresee is that the reverse breakout cable I already bought to populate the remaining motherboard ports and the first SIL3132 card is barely long enough. At 1.64 ft. there is already a little strain on the cable to the port I have it in. The distance to the 4x port seems to be just a little further away from the Norco backplane SAS connector and might not reach. I bought my cable from Newegg. Do you know of a source for one of these cables that is just a little longer? If not, I guess I could use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/SATA-Male-Female-Extension-Cable/dp/B0022WRMIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321745469&sr=8-1

 

In any event, thanks for the help. I've got the case cover on now. After the drives have run for a while under load I'll post some temperature readings  on the drives.

[inky]

So I've assembled my server and everything is running great. My 9 hitachi drives are running at 29 degrees. Airflow seems fine to me. I upgraded all the fans to noctua's. Dislike the no manual and mystery parts that came with the case. What are all the metal pieces in the little box? Are they parts required to rail mount the enclosure because I got the rails to go with it and plan on rack mounting it sometime next week. Any help would be appreciated.

[joshpond]

Some of the metal parts are for a second/redudndant psu mount, that is why there are 2 molex connectors on the backplanes.

 

I don't know how it all fits together but I just put it all away in the don't need box.

 

Josh

[ohlwiler]

hwilker,

 

I'm also running two SASLPs on 4.7 and getting the same error readings in my system log. This is on a test server that I'm preparing for real data. A search of the forum yielded this comment from Joe L.

 

That "error" simply indicated the driver for your disk controller card had already been loaded.  Everybody with more than one supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card will get that message in their syslog.

 

http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=10918.0

 

I've pushed at least 10T. using Teracopy with verify on and have never had corrupted data. I don't think you should worry.

[Johnm]

Thanks for the update on the new trays.

 

Personally, i have a ton of supermicro drive dummies. so thats not a problem for me.

 

then again, perhaps they actually engineered the a new restrictive airflow to allow an equal amount of air through both full and empty bays.. thus to provide adequate cooling to both hard drives and the motherboard.

 

One thing we forgot to mention.. if you only have 4 drives and close the other 20 bays, you might suffocate airflow to you motherboard since all inbound air comes from the drive bays.. (or at least make it louder with more air noise).

 

 

As far as the caddies not fully seating... I have noticed that in the older generations also.. but.. only with 3TB hitachi drives..

those I have to insert, latch, then give a little extra shove to make sure it plugged. they do not come loose after that (until i pull the release handle that is).

The power lights come on, but there is no data transfer until i push it again.

So far it is only my 3TB Hitachis. those drives also rub on the top of bay. the labels are silver on all of mine now. there might be a connection to the two....

 

 

as far as those metal bits... as mentioned, they for mounting different redundant PSU configurations. toss them into your pile of bits of metal for modding..

 

Manual? yeah.. about that.. i guess that goes back to my "these cases are for hobbyists". a hobbyist should know how to build a pc.. ~sigh~

[hwilker]

ohlwiler, thanks so much for that info. I was about ready to just buy a bunch of monoprice boards. I just finished re-installing the second Supermicro card and except for that ugly section in the boot up syslog everything seems well.

 

I can also now report that I did a complete parity check on the new system last night and the new trays did not seem to cause any temperature spikes. Obviously I didn't watch the temperatures all the way through but I did check it every hour or so. The highest temperature I observed was 32 degrees on the parity drive (a Hitachi Deskstar). For the six data drives (Western Digital green drives) I already had installed the highest temperature was 30 degrees and they all seemed to stay between 28 and 30 degrees.

 

In addition to the six data drives and one parity drive four other bays were filled with drives that are not yet part of the array. That means 11 of the 24 drive bays were occupied. I have no idea how hot the drives would get if more of the bays were occupied but there doesn't seem to be a temperature problem at the moment.

 

My system uses the fans recommended by Raj (very nice and quiet by the way).

 

Lastly, after more wrestling with removing the drives from the chassis, it seems that the most effective way to release them is to push down and to the right. With enough practice maybe I can actually get good at it before one of the handles breaks off :-).

[Rajahal]

Thanks Raj.

 

I agree. I'm going to give the monoprice SIL3132 cards a go. I already have one that seems to work fine. Four total would get me to 22, which is both the maximum 4.7 can handle and way more than I need for the forseeable future.

 

The funny thing is neither of the Supermicro cards are defective when used alone. I probably can't return the one I just bought because I've flashed it with the .15 bios. So maybe I'll put in on offer in the appropriate forum here along with a money-back guarantee in case it doesn't work for someone.

 

The only problem I foresee is that the reverse breakout cable I already bought to populate the remaining motherboard ports and the first SIL3132 card is barely long enough. At 1.64 ft. there is already a little strain on the cable to the port I have it in. The distance to the 4x port seems to be just a little further away from the Norco backplane SAS connector and might not reach. I bought my cable from Newegg. Do you know of a source for one of these cables that is just a little longer? If not, I guess I could use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/SATA-Male-Female-Extension-Cable/dp/B0022WRMIC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321745469&sr=8-1

 

In any event, thanks for the help. I've got the case cover on now. After the drives have run for a while under load I'll post some temperature readings  on the drives.

 

1.64 ft is not long enough?  I've always had the opposite problem - the cables are far too long and I've had to come up with various ways of keeping the extra cabling out of the way (see this post).

 

Also, ohlwiler appears to be right about the syslog errors.  I just double checked a dual SASLP build I'm currently working on and saw the same errors.  I've been testing this build extensively and haven't found any issues yet, but the all-telling network test is still to come.  Even still, the multiple SIL3132 cards are cheaper...though you then have to deal with selling off the second SASLP (I'll probably buy it if you are selling).

[hwilker]

Raj,

 

Nice work. Looks a lot cleaner than mine! I've certainly been dealing with cables that are too long. The SAS cables are too large, particularly since the SAS connectors on the card are at the very front, the cards are long, and the only SAS cables I could find were long. But the Monoprice card has the SATA connectors at the very back of the card. Thus the reverse breakout cable has to go from the Norco backplane connector to the very back of the case. 1.64 ft works but the cable is pretty much fully extended to get there. It doesn't quite strain but it comes close.

 

At any rate it is no longer a problem since ohlwiler pointed out that the syslog problem was just an artifact. Since I already had the two cards I've now installed them and all seems to be running fine.

[Johnm]

has anyone tried any of the coolermaster 212 series of CPU coolers in a Norco 42xx?

 

[Johnm]

Here is a shot of a Norco 4224 you don't see often..

 

I finally gutted out the drive bays too fix the #$@$# bent tab.. waste of about 2 hours of my day.

and yes, i should have pulled my mobo first.. But I live on the edge..

 

 

All because of a known manufacturing defect...

here is the how to replace the bent tab video:

It figures I would have a bent tab on the bottom backplane. this is going to be a crazy field strip and gut.

[inh]

Im going to have to test all my backplanes and get them sent in to norco asap. Any idea what the warranty period is?

[mexicanmike]

 

As far as the caddies not fully seating... I have noticed that in the older generations also.. but.. only with 3TB hitachi drives..

those I have to insert, latch, then give a little extra shove to make sure it plugged. they do not come loose after that (until i pull the release handle that is).

The power lights come on, but there is no data transfer until i push it again.

So far it is only my 3TB Hitachis. those drives also rub on the top of bay. the labels are silver on all of mine now. there might be a connection to the two....

 

 

Holy hell. This may have just save me hours and hours of trouble. I have been experiencing some issues with my 4224 and my 22 3TB drives. I was having a issue where one of my drives seems to not recognize. I appears that it may be a seating issue, I already wasted hours and hours verifying the drive was good by putting it in my desktop.

 

Thanks JohnM, glad I checked in on the 4224 thread, and some of the changes to the new case look pretty cool.

 

Edit: Never mind. Turns out the backplane may be bad. That one drive slot does not seem to recognize any drives that I put in.

[luca2]

Hi, pls can you 4224 owners tell me what temps do you have iddle and hdd full time working + ambient temp? Pls, let me know if you a re using stock or low rpm fans.

Rgds.

[hwilker]

I've had what I think is the latest iteration of the Norco 4224 case (yellow control boards, drive trays without the adjustable shutters) running since November. I have 8 data drives, 1 hot spare, a cache drive and a parity drive. All the drives are green drives except the parity and the cache drive. I used Raj's recommendations on fans (I don't recall those recommendations but they were the optional fans recommended in his build) The highest temperature I've observed is 32 degrees during a parity check. Mostly they run between 25 and 30. Just a guess, but I'd say the average is around 28 degrees.

[publicENEMY]

I would recommend against using a single connection from a power supply to power 24 drives. Most power supply wiring is 18 gauge with some 20 gauge and 16 gauge wire occasionally used. During disk start-up the 12 volt line current draw is in excess of 50 amps. The "Handbook of Electronic Tables and Formulas" specifies maximum current draw for an 18 gauge wire at 16 amps. This is a very conservative figure, but exceeding it by a factor of three is not something I would do. Apart from the safety issues, the voltage drop from the wire alone is on the order of 1 volt. This does not include the connector resistances which at such high currents could also prove problematic.

 

I wouldn't power more than 8 drives off a typical 18 gauge power supply connection. I've cannibalized old power supplies to steal their molex wiring and hacked off the SATA connectors from a new power supply to solder on the molex strand.

 

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

 

im not really knowledgeable with electric and stuff. that said, what is your recommendation on powering up the sas backplane? i prefer not to use psu molex directly as that would make a mess on my case.

 

if i want to diy the molex splitter, apart from the wire size, are there anything i should be aware of? what is the recommended wire gauge for 1 to 6 wire splitter thats going to power up 24 7200 rpm hdd?

 

if there are specific thread discussing molex splitter, do point me there. tried google. found this thread.

 

thanks.

[ohlwiler]

im not really knowledgeable with electric and stuff. that said, what is your recommendation on powering up the sas backplane? i prefer not to use psu molex directly as that would make a mess on my case.

 

I would recommend no more than 8 drives from one set of wires from the power supply (one red, one yellow and two black). If you carefully select your power supply this is not hard to do. The Seasonic x650 has a supply wire with two Molex connectors. Buy two extra from Seasonic and it makes for a very neat and tidy case. If you just use what comes with the x650 the wires are a little longer and they have an extra Molex connector.

 

if i want to diy the molex splitter, apart from the wire size, are there anything i should be aware of? what is the recommended wire gauge for 1 to 6 wire splitter that's going to power up 24 7200 rpm hdd?

 

The issue is not the wire size on the Molex splitter, but the gauge of the wire coming from the power supply. If you insist on going this route at least reduce the problem by powering both Molex connectors by using two 1 to 6 splitter hooked to a separate wire from the power supply. I do not recommend this method though.

 

 

[publicENEMY]

im not really knowledgeable with electric and stuff. that said, what is your recommendation on powering up the sas backplane? i prefer not to use psu molex directly as that would make a mess on my case.

 

I would recommend no more than 8 drives from one set of wires from the power supply (one red, one yellow and two black). If you carefully select your power supply this is not hard to do. The Seasonic x650 has a supply wire with two Molex connectors. Buy two extra from Seasonic and it makes for a very neat and tidy case. If you just use what comes with the x650 the wires are a little longer and they have an extra Molex connector.

 

if i want to diy the molex splitter, apart from the wire size, are there anything i should be aware of? what is the recommended wire gauge for 1 to 6 wire splitter that's going to power up 24 7200 rpm hdd?

 

The issue is not the wire size on the Molex splitter, but the gauge of the wire coming from the power supply. If you insist on going this route at least reduce the problem by powering both Molex connectors by using two 1 to 6 splitter hooked to a separate wire from the power supply. I do not recommend this method though.

 

 

 

Thanks.

[EarthImage]

Yikes! Researching on building a large unraid box (20 drives) for storing satellite imagery and was just about to order a Norco 4224. But after reading this long thread it seems obvious that Norco quality control is non-existent. I can't afford to order this case and pray that the back planes are going to function. I don't have the time to do an email campaign with Norco if pieces are bad (March year-end deadline). Can anyone suggest a similar product that is reasonably priced? Or do I just go tower with something like the Antec 1200? The 4224 is $400 in Canada and a tower with 4 drive cages will approach $600. So the question becomes is there something in the $600-ish ($800?) range that would be similar to the 4224 but coming working!?

 

Thanks, EarthImage

[daniel.boone]

Yikes! Researching on building a large unraid box (20 drives) for storing satellite imagery and was just about to order a Norco 4224. But after reading this long thread it seems obvious that Norco quality control is non-existent. I can't afford to order this case and pray that the back planes are going to function. I don't have the time to do an email campaign with Norco if pieces are bad (March year-end deadline). Can anyone suggest a similar product that is reasonably priced? Or do I just go tower with something like the Antec 1200? The 4224 is $400 in Canada and a tower with 4 drive cages will approach $600. So the question becomes is there something in the $600-ish ($800?) range that would be similar to the 4224 but coming working!?

 

Thanks, EarthImage

 

Similar product yes but similar price your not going to find. There are a few 4U cases out there. NewEgg is great for researching tech gear.

 

I picked up a 4224 and all the backplanes work fine. I'm happy with the case plastic parts and all.

 

Now paying more won't guarantee it's going to work. This is the nature of mail order. To me it's sounds like you may need to pay for testing/burn in. Maybe a prebuilt server is best. Greenleaf may be able to do something for you.

 

 

[ohlwiler]

Yikes! Researching on building a large unraid box (20 drives) for storing satellite imagery and was just about to order a Norco 4224. But after reading this long thread it seems obvious that Norco quality control is non-existent. I can't afford to order this case and pray that the back planes are going to function. I don't have the time to do an email campaign with Norco if pieces are bad (March year-end deadline). Can anyone suggest a similar product that is reasonably priced? Or do I just go tower with something like the Antec 1200? The 4224 is $400 in Canada and a tower with 4 drive cages will approach $600. So the question becomes is there something in the $600-ish ($800?) range that would be similar to the 4224 but coming working!?

 

Thanks, EarthImage

 

I purchased a Norco 4224 from Mwave that turned out to be a customer return. It was missing a backplane and a couple of fans. I sent Norco an email asking if I should return it or if they would send the missing parts. They responded that they would send the parts. Four days later I had the parts. Since I got the case for a $300 I didn't mind spending 5 minutes on email. There are no other good options, unless you want to stretch for a Supermicro 846 for $1000.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811152124

[levster]

I have a 4220 case an am pretty satisfied with it. Not the "cleanest" design, but for the money you can't really argue. I found this 4U 20 bay case on ebay that Mwave sells : HABEY ESC-4201C 4U

 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?px=MK&scriteria=BA50085

 

Does anyone have experience with this one? Looks similar to a Norco.

[prostuff1]

I ordered a 4220 from newegg for myself and have not had any problems with it.

 

I have also ordered a number of 4220 and 4224 cases from newegg for customer builds and never had a problem with them as of yet.  The most recent order I got was for a 4220 which has the newer style drive trays.

[EarthImage]

Well, after reading the above comments I decided to go with the Norco 4224, especially since the cost of getting 4 drive cages for a tower setup is outrageous (I'm in northern Canada). I ended up ordering directly from Norcotek in California. I was very impressed by their email response and how quickly they got the case in the mail. I will hope for the best in regards to the backplanes. I also ordered the 120mm fan wall replacement.

 

 

[Johnm]

I have a 4220 case an am pretty satisfied with it. Not the "cleanest" design, but for the money you can't really argue. I found this 4U 20 bay case on ebay that Mwave sells : HABEY ESC-4201C 4U

 

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch.asp?px=MK&scriteria=BA50085

 

Does anyone have experience with this one? Looks similar to a Norco.

that looks like it is using 60mm fans. i bet it is loud.

[Johnm]

Yikes! Researching on building a large unraid box (20 drives) for storing satellite imagery and was just about to order a Norco 4224. But after reading this long thread it seems obvious that Norco quality control is non-existent. I can't afford to order this case and pray that the back planes are going to function. I don't have the time to do an email campaign with Norco if pieces are bad (March year-end deadline). Can anyone suggest a similar product that is reasonably priced? Or do I just go tower with something like the Antec 1200? The 4224 is $400 in Canada and a tower with 4 drive cages will approach $600. So the question becomes is there something in the $600-ish ($800?) range that would be similar to the 4224 but coming working!?

 

Thanks, EarthImage

 

It looks like Norco got a seriously bad batch of backplanes and was pretty much overwhelmed with RMAs and problems. they even stopped selling servers for almost a month while they changed to these new yellow backplane servers.

 

I have heard very few complaints about the new run of server Chassis.

 

They are cheaply made but are intended for the home enthusiast, not a production data center. They do the job for home use fine when they work... you do have to mod them slightly to take a bite out of the fan noise if using them in the home.