xerces8 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 12/15/2018 at 5:56 PM, xerces8 said: I have a 8TB Seagate Desktop drive (CystalDiskInfo says it is a ST8000DM004-2CX188, haven't shucked it yet). The interesting thing is, CDM shows normal (as in "not SMR") values for 4K writing (same as for reading, about 1 MB/s), unlike about 10 MB/s, like for example my other 5TB SMR drive. After filling it to about half and rerunning CDM, I got the typical values for 4K: read about 0.5 MB/s, write 6 MB/s Quote Link to comment
reboot81 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) My 8TB Seagate Archive HDD (schucked 2020/02, Seagate Backup Plus Desktop Hub 4TB) has been sitting idle for almost three years. Lessons learned: you get what you pay for. The disk has most likely not had more than 25TB written, and its already giving me all kinds of SMART errors. Good news is that it contained nothing of value. Replacement disk won't be shingled that's for sure! ST8000AS0002-1NA17Z Check out values 5, 187, 198 & 198 Error 8341 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 21731 hours (905 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 53 00 ff ff ff 0f Error: UNC at LBA = 0x0fffffff = 268435455 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- 60 00 08 ff ff ff 4f 00 6d+05:59:08.980 READ FPDMA QUEUED ef 10 02 00 00 00 a0 00 6d+05:59:08.980 SET FEATURES [Enable SATA feature] 27 00 00 00 00 00 e0 00 6d+05:59:08.980 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT [OBS-ACS-3] ec 00 00 00 00 00 a0 00 6d+05:59:08.979 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 46 00 00 00 a0 00 6d+05:59:08.979 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] # ATTRIBUTE NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESHOLD TYPE UPDATED FAILED RAW VALUE 1 Raw read error rate 0x000f 115 099 006 Pre-fail Always Never 88515023 3 Spin up time 0x0003 091 090 000 Pre-fail Always Never 0 4 Start stop count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old age Always Never 597 5 Reallocated sector count 0x0033 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always Never 8 7 Seek error rate 0x000f 079 060 030 Pre-fail Always Never 97454053 9 Power on hours 0x0032 076 076 000 Old age Always Never 21732 (2y, 5m, 23d, 12h) 10 Spin retry count 0x0013 100 100 097 Pre-fail Always Never 0 12 Power cycle count 0x0032 100 100 020 Old age Always Never 51 183 Runtime bad block 0x0032 100 100 000 Old age Always Never 0 184 End-to-end error 0x0032 100 100 099 Old age Always Never 0 187 Reported uncorrect 0x0032 001 001 000 Old age Always Never 65535 188 Command timeout 0x0032 100 100 000 Old age Always Never 0 189 High fly writes 0x003a 100 100 000 Old age Always Never 0 190 Airflow temperature cel 0x0022 069 040 045 Old age Always In the past 31 (14 115 35 23 0) 191 G-sense error rate 0x0032 100 100 000 Old age Always Never 0 192 Power-off retract count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old age Always Never 805 193 Load cycle count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old age Always Never 4576 194 Temperature celsius 0x0022 031 060 000 Old age Always Never 31 (0 21 0 0 0) 195 Hardware ECC recovered 0x001a 115 099 000 Old age Always Never 88515023 197 Current pending sector 0x0012 100 090 000 Old age Always Never 256 198 Offline uncorrectable 0x0010 100 090 000 Old age Offline Never 256 199 UDMA CRC error count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old age Always Never 0 240 Head flying hours 0x0000 100 253 000 Old age Offline Never 2840 (65 240 0) 241 Total lbas written 0x0000 100 253 000 Old age Offline Never 18918662635 242 Total lbas read 0x0000 100 253 000 Old age Offline Never 6154007660 Edited April 1, 2020 by reboot81 1 Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 1/23/2019 at 6:21 PM, wheel said: So last month, I started having some issues writing to certain 8TB drives, but never took note of which specifically since no parity errors ever popped up before or after checks. I was looking into adding more 8TBs to a 19-disk array this week when I realized I’ve been adding ST8000DM004-2CX188s left and right over the past couple of years. SIX disks in a nineteen-disk array (not counting parity) are SMR drives (one is ST8000AS). Ha ha. I've got 10 out of 30 of these. Been a solid 2-3 years so far. SMR is trash though. At the time, it was the best TB/$ out there, and I've been very lucky. I've since been buying 14TB Exos (ST14000NM0018-2H4101). These are doing really well! Eventually I'll be upgrading 1/3 of my server just to get rid of these SMR liabilities. Good luck! Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, falconexe said: I've since been buying 14TB Exos (ST14000NM0018-2H4101). These are doing really well! Well crap. According to this website, these ARE SMR. No where in the product documentation shows this too. Welp, I guess I'll go back to WD or Iron Wolf next time. 🤷♂️ https://blocksandfiles.com/2020/04/15/seagate-2-4-and-8tb-barracuda-and-desktop-hdd-smr/ https://www.seagate.com/www-content/datasheets/pdfs/exos-x-14-channel-DS1974-4-1812US-en_US.pdf Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 hour ago, falconexe said: According to this website, these ARE SMR. Those 14TB Exos are CMR. Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, johnnie.black said: Those 14TB Exos are CMR. That's what I thought when I bought them, but these lines from that article are making me question that. I do believe you though... "The Archive drives are for archiving and Exos drives are optimised for maximum storage capacity and the highest rack-space efficiency. Seagate documentation for the Exos and Archive HDDs explicitly spells out that they use SMR." Edited August 19, 2020 by falconexe Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, falconexe said: but these lines from that article are making me question that. Only this Exos model is SMR: Quote Exos 8TB – 5900rpm – SATA 6gig – ST8000AS0003 1 2 Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, johnnie.black said: Only this Exos model is SMR: Thanks for confirming! I'll continue buying then. They have been rock solid. Edited August 19, 2020 by falconexe Quote Link to comment
xerces8 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Well, you could test them, to see if they are SMR or not. Quote Link to comment
jbartlett Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Running a Benchmark on a SMR drive that's fresh from the wrapper using the DiskSpeed docker will show really high & flat speeds. I don't have any history on your particular model but it'll look like this. Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Running a Benchmark on a SMR drive that's fresh from the wrapper using the DiskSpeed docker will show really high & flat speeds That won't work with all SMR drives, SMR drives from Seagate and Toshiba look normal on speed tests, even before use, at least the ones I tested with, only WD drives do that, likely firmware related. Quote Link to comment
tucansam Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 You guys are freaking me out. I have a whole truckload of 8TB Seagate Archives. Is my server going to blow up randomly ? Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Randomly, no. But at a moment of our choosing... 1 2 Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 5 hours ago, BRiT said: Randomly, no. But at a moment of our choosing... Best comment of the year. I just pissed myself ha ha. 😂🤣😂 Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, tucansam said: You guys are freaking me out. I have a whole truckload of 8TB Seagate Archives. Is my server going to blow up randomly ? Just stay on your S.M.A.R.T. reports and you'll be fine. First sign of trouble, swap it out immediately. Edited August 20, 2020 by falconexe Quote Link to comment
xerces8 Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Linear reads on SMR are the same as on non-SMR drives. The biggest difference is in the random write test (10 times faster than non-SMR due to the track cache). And hammering it with a _lot_ of read/write requests (similar results as non-SMR except for the occasional long delay). Not exactly a one-click thing, but enough to get a few good hints. Quote Link to comment
JorgeB Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 11 hours ago, xerces8 said: Linear reads on SMR are the same as on non-SMR drives. Except WD SMR drives before they are written to, since the firmware knows there's nothing on those sectors in the platters they return the data from the cache, making them look much faster then they actually are. Quote Link to comment
tucansam Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/20/2020 at 10:40 AM, falconexe said: Just stay on your S.M.A.R.T. reports and you'll be fine. First sign of trouble, swap it out immediately. Most of my drives have UDMA CRC errors, some have thousands, some have dozens, some have none. A few have "Reported Uncorrected," value number 187, whatever that means. Of 16 drives, those two errors are the only one that generate an orange line in the SMART value tables. Quote Link to comment
falconexe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, tucansam said: Most of my drives have UDMA CRC errors, some have thousands, some have dozens, some have none. A few have "Reported Uncorrected," value number 187, whatever that means. Of 16 drives, those two errors are the only one that generate an orange line in the SMART value tables. Whenever I see anything light up in color, I immediately run a short and extended S.M.A.R.T. test. If results are verified, I then remove and replace that drive with a new pre-cleared drive. These are the Usual Suspects in Order by Severity (My Opinion): Current pending sector > 0 Reallocated sector count > 0 Offline uncorrectable > 0 If I see anything other than a fat ZERO here, I'm personally done with that drive. Others may say you can get away with it for a bit longer if you just have a low number of these and the metrics remain static, primarily reallocated sectors, but once there is 1, there will usually be more. Why take the risk? Especially when we are talking about SMR drives. I look for these opportunities to rid myself of these "mistake" drives. I got greedy a few years back with finding deals. For NAS type solutions, I would only get NAS type drives moving forward. I'm sure others with vastly more experience with specific drive diagnostics will and should chime in here. I'm a veteran IT professional and I have learned a lot from this community when I joined in 2014. Everyone here is great, and they will always take care of you if you listen, have an open mind, and remain calm when crap hits the fan. Hopefully this helps. If I were you, I would already have new drives shipping to my house and/or pre-clearing as we speak. And it goes without saying, I really hope you have good backups (onsite and cloud), and that you are already saving off this data. Good luck! Edited August 23, 2020 by falconexe 1 Quote Link to comment
tucansam Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Thanks. I will look into perhaps replacing them slowly, as funds become available. If you can find me cloud storage for 88TB that doesn't cost and arm and a leg, I may consider it. But I don't like the cloud, and I don't like having my data on someone else's server. Hence me running unraid. Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 1 hour ago, tucansam said: Thanks. I will look into perhaps replacing them slowly, as funds become available. If you can find me cloud storage for 88TB that doesn't cost and arm and a leg, I may consider it. But I don't like the cloud, and I don't like having my data on someone else's server. Hence me running unraid. You should check out this thread on how Google Drives and Rclone can provide unlimited storage for around $12 a month. They don't actually require 5 users and they don't limit storage to 1TB when less than 5 users. Some users have well over 200 TBs. https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html 1 Quote Link to comment
tucansam Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Google is the great Satan, we all know this. Are you telling me storing data with them is safe? I'm being serious. Suggesting that I store data with google is very nerve-wracking to me. Quote Link to comment
BRiT Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, tucansam said: Google is the great Satan, we all know this. Are you telling me storing data with them is safe? I'm being serious. Suggesting that I store data with google is very nerve-wracking to me. Its fully encrypted where only you have the decryption keys. Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, tucansam said: Are you telling me storing data with them is safe? I'm being serious. Suggesting that I store data with google is very nerve-wracking to me. Safe is a relative term. The biggest issue would be if they suddenly decided to enforce their TOS, in which case you would either abandon them, or pay the higher price. Like BRIT said, you can set it up so only you can see the content of the data, assuming you don't have the attention of a three letter agency. If you use them as the third tier of a sound backup strategy, you shouldn't have any issues, other than the massive amount of bandwidth needed to get the backup started. Quote Link to comment
tucansam Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 My multimedia collection wouldn't need to go, that is replaceable. And I'm on an unlimited plan with my ISP, although I'm sure they'll limit my bandwidth after the first few TBs.... Quote Link to comment
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