how to opt out of the new User Profile Component (UPC) in 6.10 and all following releases

[JonathanM]

Will you continue to service license key replacements by email if needed?

 

Since a server running a full (not trial) license doesn't need internet and can be fully air gapped, it would be nice to have the assurance that when a USB stick fails we can still email support with the current GUID and desired new GUID and get our license reissued to the new stick without the server ever having an internet connection on the server itself.

 

I'm perfectly willing to give up the automatic instant key replacement function in exchange for an old fashioned email chain that could take a couple days if the server doesn't have to have an internet connection.

[JonathanM]

As a follow up for future discussion, would it be possible to have a web form accessible with the forum login that would allow access to the automatic key replacement process, that way we could still get the 24/7 instant key replacement once a year while keeping the server itself off the internet?

 

@limetech, I know this would create another support issue, in that if someone puts in a valid GUID but can't manage to get that new key working properly it would force the issue to email, but it would be nice to have another way to get an instant key replacement.

 

 

[limetech]

26 minutes ago, JonathanM said:

Will you continue to service license key replacements by email if needed?

 

Since a server running a full (not trial) license doesn't need internet and can be fully air gapped, it would be nice to have the assurance that when a USB stick fails we can still email support with the current GUID and desired new GUID and get our license reissued to the new stick without the server ever having an internet connection on the server itself.

 

I'm perfectly willing to give up the automatic instant key replacement function in exchange for an old fashioned email chain that could take a couple days if the server doesn't have to have an internet connection.

 

Of course, we are not disabling our support email address.  I completely acknowledge the desire to have an "air gapped" server, but vast majority of servers use at least some internet resources.  Nothing we are doing with UPC or future online services will preclude running your server totally disconnected from any internet access.

 

[Michael_P]

Condescension aside, some of us value having the choice for "air gapping", if simply for maintaining the illusion of control over our own gear 🙂

[limetech]

8 minutes ago, Michael_P said:

Condescension aside, some of us value having the choice for "air gapping", if simply for maintaining the illusion of control over our own gear 🙂

No condescension was meant, I'll reword my response.

[JonathanM]

1 hour ago, limetech said:

servers use at least some internet resources.  Nothing we are doing with UPC or future online services will preclude running your server totally disconnected from any internet access.

We just want the ability to control WHICH resources are used by the server, and having the OS tied directly to unraid backend is totally different than setting up a container or a VM with internet access.

 

Requiring a trial version to access the unraid infrastructure is understandable and necessary, but being able to totally remove that phone home once a license is purchased is also needed.

[limetech]

1 hour ago, JonathanM said:

We just want the ability to control WHICH resources are used by the server, and having the OS tied directly to unraid backend is totally different than setting up a container or a VM with internet access.

 

Requiring a trial version to access the unraid infrastructure is understandable and necessary, but being able to totally remove that phone home once a license is purchased is also needed.

 

What is your question?   (not trying to be disrespectful or flippant, but the server does not phone home, I don't know how to reply to this, which is why I asked previous for someone to ask specifically a question or for clarity)

[JonathanM]

4 minutes ago, limetech said:

 

What is your question? 

Sorry, I wasn't asking a new question, more just trying to clarify the concerns.

 

The UPC component looks like it's part of a phone home system, and it's being added as a mandatory piece of the OS.

 

I'll add an example of a change made to Windows 10 last year, where new installs require using a MS account to complete the install, unless you proactively remove the network before that stage of setup and tell it you don't have internet.

 

I personally realize that comparing LT to MS is rather insulting, but to newcomers to the LT family, it could be hard to differentiate the behaviour.

[eweitzman]

13 hours ago, eweitzman said:

<snip> I have the "confusion in the user base" Jon spoke of in the video. I didn't use MyServers in 6.9 so was never exposed to UPC. And the features of MyServers in the 6.10.0-rc topic are of course tied to UPC and I didn't make a clean distinction between the two.

 

<snip>

 

Still, my real concern is not an active connection between the key management backend and my server via UPC, but between MyServers, limetech's cloud backend, and the forum. There will inevitably be a loss of support-related features if I stay opted out of MyServers, and an increase in the attack surface for all unraid systems that are connected. As long as I can stay opted out of MyServers, it should be okay, so long as yet another company won't require that I hand over my privacy for licenses and services already paid for.

 

11 hours ago, limetech said:

No doubt some may have more questions and want more details.  So let's do this: go ahead and fire away but please ask only one question or ask for only one clarification per post and I'll try to answer them all until we're all exhausted.

 Will you take questions about MyServers here, or only UPC? I noted my confusion mixing the two together. I could start a new thread for the MyServers issues that have been raised by others and myself if you like.

[eweitzman]

What information is sent from licensed servers to limetech’s cloud via UPC and the MyServer plugin? Please be thorough in your description.

[eweitzman]

What is the frequency that this information is sent?

[eweitzman]

How is that information used by Limetech?

[eweitzman]

How is that information protected from malicious third parties?

[eweitzman]

If you store that information, and the license holder later opts out of using UPC and the MyServer plugin, how can the license holder remove all such information from your systems?

[eweitzman]

What information is shared through the forum to the license holder, to other forum users, or to anyone else besides Limetech and forum users?

[eweitzman]

What services are offered through the MyServer plugin that are not otherwise available to license holders who opt out of UPC?

[eweitzman]

What services do you plan to offer through the MyServer plugin that will not otherwise be available to licensed users who have opted out of UPC?

[eweitzman]

Aside from these questions of data storage, security, and privacy, could you describe what the user experience would be like if a license holder kept a server logged out of UPC and only turned it one for short periods of time to use MyServer capabilities? For example, there might be gaps in information about the server the would limit the usefulness of MyServer features, or extra steps might be needed before those features could be used.

[eweitzman]

Do you have updated license terms and a privacy policy that can be reviewed, that include answers to relevant questions above?

[eweitzman]

@limetech Will you be responding to my questions in the near future?

[trurl]

On 11/25/2021 at 7:30 AM, eweitzman said:

@limetech Will you be responding to my questions in the near future?

It's a holiday weekend in the US.

 

Also, you didn't do it right. You have to type the @

Then continue to type the name then make a selection from the matches that appear.

 

Like this @eweitzman

[SpencerJ]

On 11/25/2021 at 4:30 AM, eweitzman said:

@limetech Will you be responding to my questions in the near future?

I will check in- I believe there are plans to make an FAQ style entry in the wiki to answer many of these questions. 

[DivideBy0]

This week is pretty much gone with US holidays.  But these are some hard questions / topics to tackle and I will be very curious with the level of openness and fairness coming from limetech. I think this may be a "make it or break it" type of deal for me and perhaps others.  But at least we can have a conversation about it which is a good start.

Edited November 28, 2021 by johnwhicker

[eweitzman]

In the US, most people work the week prior to Thanksgiving which always occurs on a Thursday. If you live in the US, @trurl, hasn't that been your experience too? Then again, there were times I used 3-4 vacation days and adjacent weekends to get nine days off. OTOH, small business owners generally don't take holidays. I sure didn't.

 

My questions were posted three days before Thanksgiving. If they decided to not answer here and write a FAQ or update license terms instead, it would have been courteous to let us know after offering to "answer [all questions here] until we're all exhausted" last Sunday.

 

[DivideBy0]

Crickets,  and boom goes the dynamite