SpencerJ Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 After multiple recent support issues with SanDisk brand USBs, we don't recommend buying SanDisk USBs for Unraid at this point. Either due to counterfeit devices being sold or a manufacturing change directly from SanDisk, multiple users have attempted to boot SanDisk USBs and found out that they do not register a unique GUID and therefore, cannot be properly licensed with Unraid. Multiple attempts at contacting SanDisk on this issue have gone nowhere. For a great rundown on the best USBs for Unraid, @SpaceInvaderOne made an exhaustively researched video on the topic: (Spoiler) The best 3 flash drives were: 1. Samsung bar plus USA ---- https://amzn.to/32TtQyp UK ---- https://amzn.to/3004ooU 2. Kingston DataTraveler SE9 G2 USA ---- https://amzn.to/30NhzIZ UK ---- https://amzn.to/3f4Bp7C 3. Samsung Fit Plus USA --- https://amzn.to/3hFboha UK --- https://amzn.to/39vSsOR 1 1 Quote Link to comment
ChatNoir Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Thanks for that communication. Hopefully, this will prevent new users suffer from a bad first experience. 1 Quote Link to comment
CatoJa Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Haha just got Pro licensed to a Sandisk USB. Explains my weird issues. Time to transfer! Quote Link to comment
kizer Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 Lol, My 2GB ScanDisk Cruzer is still rocking since 2009. I've had a handful of oddities since I've had it thou. Not sure if it was the stick or the Mobo. 1 Quote Link to comment
aaronwt Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Wow! I'm glad I saw this. I was going to get another SanDisk USB. I got two back in 2019. When I had setup two additional unRAID setups. And was going to use the same model USB drives. Since I have had zero issues with the ones I got in 2019. But I guess i need to look for something else now. What is a popular USB drive people use now for unRAID? One that is super small. Quote Link to comment
ConnerVT Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 In my opinion, it is not a SanDisk issue. Nor Samsung. Nor Kingston. It is a counterfeit issue. So it isn't the brand, it is the distribution network that can't be trusted. Amazon, eBay, Alibaba can't be trusted. Go to an actual brick and mortar store. Staples. Target. Walgreens even. Pay an extra $5, and save yourself a lot of grief. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment
Lolight Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 On 4/19/2023 at 6:52 AM, ConnerVT said: It is a counterfeit issue. So it isn't the brand, it is the distribution network that can't be trusted. Amazon, eBay, Alibaba can't be trusted. Second that! Quote Link to comment
aaronwt Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 I ended up getting a SanDisk, 16GB Ultra Fit USB 3.1 drive from Amazon. To go in my fifth unRAID setup. It came in a blister pack, so I hope it's OK. But I got this USB drive because I have been using them in three of my unRAID setups, since 2019, with zero issues. SO, hopefully, this one is fine. Although I'm still waiting for another N40L system to arrive from eBay. That I will be using it in. Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 5:20 PM, aaronwt said: One that is super small. Super small = heat buildup = dead drives Go with a large form factor with lots of metal shell, and put it inside the case where it can't get disturbed. If your motherboard doesn't have a USB port internal, motherboard header to USB socket adapters are cheap and easy to fit. 1 Quote Link to comment
aaronwt Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, JonathanM said: Super small = heat buildup = dead drives Go with a large form factor with lots of metal shell, and put it inside the case where it can't get disturbed. If your motherboard doesn't have a USB port internal, motherboard header to USB socket adapters are cheap and easy to fit. I'm using HP microservers, N40L and N54L models. I use the internal USB port, on the motherboard, for the unRAID USB drive. I've been using the small USB drives for unRAID since I first started using unRAID in 2011. So far, I have not run into any issues with them. Hopefully, that continues to be the case. But these new unRAIDs setups will be using 14TB drives. My previous setups never exceeded 4TB drives. I used external cases with port multiplier, eSATA ports. To have 20+ drives in use with each unRAID setup. My new unRAID setups will have five, 14TB drives. With one parity, instead of the two I had been using. Plus one SSD, 1TB, for the cache drive. But these will all be internal drives, in each HP N40L or N54L Microserver. Instead of messing with the external cases. Which I had been doing since 2008. When I first setup a Windows home server on previous model HP microservers. That had around thirty drives, using external cases, with eSATA port multiplier ports. When I switched to unRAID I kept using external cases, unfortunately. They have always worked very well for me. But they use much more power. Edited April 25, 2023 by aaronwt changed "over ten years ago" to 2011 Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, aaronwt said: I've been using the small USB drives for unRAID since I first started using unRAID over 10 years ago With older USB drives it wasn't as much of a factor. Modern high density USB drives seem to heat up much more. The higher transfer rates seem to generate heat quickly. USB drives aren't really designed with our use case in mind, so we have to be super selective to find a good match that endures nearly as well as the older drives. Quote Link to comment
enderraid Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 3:52 PM, ConnerVT said: In my opinion, it is not a SanDisk issue. Nor Samsung. Nor Kingston. It is a counterfeit issue. So it isn't the brand, it is the distribution network that can't be trusted. Amazon, eBay, Alibaba can't be trusted. Go to an actual brick and mortar store. Staples. Target. Walgreens even. Pay an extra $5, and save yourself a lot of grief. New to Unraid and trying to get a free trial going only to find out that my USB drive is blacklisted. This is a SanDisk Extreme Pro, purchased at B&H Photo (a retailer that knows a lot about gray and black markets, counterfeits, etc.) Now I have to buy another USB drive to see if I can get this going. I might have missed it, but I wish there was a list of models and approved retailers published by Unraid. Quote Link to comment
ConnerVT Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 The "U" in GUID stands for Unique. If your flash drive came back as blacklisted would mean that the GUID had been registered before. This has two possibilities - there is more than one drive in the world that had been registered with Unraid (thus the GUID was *not* unique) or during your efforts to create an Unraid boot flash you tried to register your flash drive twice. B&H is a respected resale business, but they are still at the mercy of the wholesalers they buy from. A list of "Approved" models will not resolve this issue. If I was a counterfeiter, I would use this list to choose best selling flash drives to copy, to maximize my profits. 1 Quote Link to comment
FeBuLu Posted September 15, 2023 Share Posted September 15, 2023 It seems like Samsung BAR Plus Champagne - 32GB is out of stuck in Denmark, can I use the 128 GB version instead? Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 On 9/15/2023 at 9:40 AM, FeBuLu said: It seems like Samsung BAR Plus Champagne - 32GB is out of stuck in Denmark, can I use the 128 GB version instead? I can't promise you can make it work, but if you use a partitioning and format tool like rufus to create a single bootable partition FAT32 I think some have been able to use the manual installation method successfully. Quote Link to comment
Dojimaster Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 On 4/24/2023 at 3:22 PM, JonathanM said: Super small = heat buildup = dead drives Go with a large form factor with lots of metal shell, and put it inside the case where it can't get disturbed. No issue with heat inside the case vs outside? Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dojimaster said: No issue with heat inside the case vs outside? If the inside is much warmer, you need better ventilation. Quote Link to comment
Dojimaster Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, JonathanM said: If the inside is much warmer, you need better ventilation. Mainly I'm think proximity of the internal USB port to the LSI-9300-16i. I'm working on mitigating its heat. Edited September 27, 2023 by Dojimaster Quote Link to comment
JonathanM Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Dojimaster said: Mainly I'm think proximity of the internal USB port to the LSI-9300-16i. I'm working on mitigating its heat. Those server style HBA's were never designed to be in a normal desktop or tower case. They rely on rack mount style ventilation where there is a fan wall or similar that forces a large amount of air across all the slots. If you are using it in a consumer grade case you must add ducting or direct fan flow. Quote Link to comment
ConnerVT Posted September 27, 2023 Share Posted September 27, 2023 The ambient temperature around the flash drive is really a minor concern (unless you keep your server in an oven of 60C+). Most flash drives have little thought about cooling - a die in a chip package, soldered to a board and stuffed into a plastic housing. Lowering your case temps by 5C isn't going to matter much, if at all. Where heat is an issue is hammering the flash memory chips with sustained, repeated writes. They just aren't meant for such a duty cycle. The repeated accesses generate heat, which spreads between the silicon semiconductor, the copper interconnects, and the interposers that are used to stack the memory cells together. Each is a different material, which expands and contracts at different rates when heated. The normal use case for an Unraid boot drive is the easy life for a flash drive. Write about 1GB to it once, read from it once when you boot, and write an occasional config file of a few KB. Quote Link to comment
Lolight Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 12 hours ago, ConnerVT said: Where heat is an issue is hammering the flash memory chips with sustained, repeated writes. While idling (no activity with reading and writing anything), all of my USB 3.0 drives run significantly warmer to touch, as compared to the USB 2.0 ones. IMO, the USB 3.0 consumer flash devices are not designed with long-term durability in mind as is the case of being constantly (24/7) connected to a power source in the always-on Unraid NAS. Quote Link to comment
roaring-beloved7394 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 .... I used a pny Quote Link to comment
ConnerVT Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 PNY is likely a good choice these days, as I wouldn't think it to be one of the first choices for a counterfeiter to copy. Samsung and SanDisk have a much greater market share, so more likely to be faked. Quote Link to comment
ConnerVT Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 On 9/28/2023 at 6:18 AM, Lolight said: While idling (no activity with reading and writing anything), all of my USB 3.0 drives run significantly warmer to touch, as compared to the USB 2.0 ones. IMO, the USB 3.0 consumer flash devices are not designed with long-term durability in mind as is the case of being constantly (24/7) connected to a power source in the always-on Unraid NAS. I don't believe it is directly a function of the USB 3.0 interface. Rather, drives with USB 3.0 are typically newer technology - smaller process node, with memory cells packed more densely together that generate more heat with less space for that heat to disperse. Newer drives typically are larger capacity than their 2.0 counterpart. You need to compare heat output of drives of the same capacity. It isn't fair to compare a 64GB drive to a 8GB drive. Quote Link to comment
Lolight Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, ConnerVT said: Newer drives typically are larger capacity than their 2.0 counterpart. You need to compare heat output of drives of the same capacity. It isn't fair to compare a 64GB drive to a 8GB drive. I've compared few of my smaller 8-32 GB USB drives and found out that their capacity is not being the determining factor. I don't have bigger capacity drives to test. They were all tested via a USB 2.0 port. In another similar thread I've already mentioned about significant differences in the USB drives current requirement designs. IMO, the USB drive controller is what determines how much current will be supplied by the port. A badly designed drive (or a fake) will be drawing the maximum current allowed by the USB 2.0 standard which is 500 mA. One of my tested USB 2.0 drives did exactly that. And it would likely be even worse if connected to the USB 3.0 port. This article discusses design variances: "if your USB Device exceeds the default 100 mA, but you do not design it to control the various current levels as they are enabled, then there is really nothing that the USB Host can do to limit your current. The USB specifications are designed with the assumption that USB Devices will properly advertise their current needs, and properly control their current draw based upon listening to what the USB Host permits. The only thing that the USB Host does is say "Yes" or "No" to a given USB Configuration. After that, it's up to the USB Device to control the current." http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Designing_USB_Devices_for_proper_current_and_MaxPower The rest of my USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 drives were drawing in the range of 100-225 mA. I don't think any of the USB 3.0 ones appeared to draw less than 200 mA. Based on that observation I'd say that in order for the boot device to run the coolest it would be desirable to get a genuine USB 2.0 drive that's been verified to draw only 100 mA. And then to make sure that it's attached to a USB 2.0 port or header. To check for the drive's current metric in Windows go to Device Manager --> USB Root Hub --> Power Or even better, use the USB Device Tree Viewer: https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html Edited October 4, 2023 by Lolight 1 Quote Link to comment
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