New & Improved Update OS Tool

[JorgeB]

1 hour ago, hawihoney said:

but isn't it possible to download the release file, and copy the files onto the stick manually?

It is.

[winstano]

Looks like this is causing a bit of concern in some areas of the community. There's some wording that suggests an annual/subscription license system is coming in... Could we get some sort of official clarification on this? 

 

 

One of the more appealing elements of Unraid was the lifetime license option.

[itimpi]

3 hours ago, hawihoney said:

Didn't try it myself to update, but isn't it possible to download the release file, and copy the files onto the stick manually

Yes.   This is what is covered here in the online documentation accessible via the Manual link at the bottom of the Unraid GUI.  In addition every forum page has a DOCS link at the top and a Documentation link at the bottom.

[ChatNoir]

19 minutes ago, winstano said:

Looks like this is causing a bit of concern in some areas of the community. There's some wording that suggests an annual/subscription license system is coming in... Could we get some sort of official clarification on this? 

 

 

One of the more appealing elements of Unraid was the lifetime license option.

I thought I missed on things on the forum, so I did check on the Reddit thread.

It seems full of maybes and a self reinforcing loop of concerns. But I don't really understand the rootcause.

The code excerpt seems quite unconclusive.

 

Changing the update process to provide more details and a proper sequence to incite people to actually read the release is something that many people were asking for.

The goal is probably to reduce the number of people that end up in the very situation that was detailed in the release note.

 

The introduction through the Connect plugin was explained.

And I tend to agree that the use of plugin rather than baking everything in Unraid proper is a good solution for many reasons. Mainly because it allows for quicker updates when things need changing.

 

Now, I do not have any inside information and Limetech could play the evil genius and try to backstab the community, but I don't see any proofs or even hints of that to that day.

I do agree, however, that the situation with users' doubts and fears would require more communication from the team.

[dopeytree]

Ok genies out of the bottle this guy found the code. Looks like the plan is to move to subscription pricing... which I can understand but when to tell the community and I think there has to be alot more basic function to warrant a subscription fee. Power-saving functions, fan control, guide noobs to essential plugins etc.

 

 

 

So, it looks like Unraid is switching things up and moving towards an "annual support" model for updates. They just rolled out this new update system, and in their latest blog post, they mentioned:

This is an entirely new experience from the old updater and was designed to streamline the process, better surface release information, and resolve some common issues.

(https://unraid.net/blog/new-update-os-tool)

Their code tells a different story, though:

if (cee.value) {
  const eee =
      "Your {0} license included one year of free updates at the time of purchase. You are now eligible to extend your license and access the latest OS updates.",
    tee =
      "You are still eligible to access OS updates that were published on or before {1}.";

Or:

text: tee.t("Extend License"),
title: tee.t(
  "Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates."
 ),
}),

Some translation pieces too:

Starter: "Starter",
Unleashed: "Unleashed",
Lifetime: "Lifetime",
"Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates.":
  "Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates.",
"Your license key's OS update eligibility has expired. Please renew your license key to enable updates released after your expiration date.":
"Get a Lifetime Key": "Get a Lifetime Key",
"Key ineligible for future releases": "Key ineligible for future releases",

 

(Source for all of these: /usr/local/emhttp/plugins/dynamix.my.servers/unraid-components/_nuxt/unraid-components.client-92728868.js)

Edited February 19 by dopeytree

[isvein]

In 6.12.8 with the new updater, you cant install beta/rc without an connect account

[fiR3W4LL]

"I think it will be interesting to see what kind of pricing these will have (‘Starter’, ‘Unleashed’, ‘Lifetime’) and what it will be for those who bought basic, plus, or pro licenses for their servers in the past. Thinking about the community.

I switched back to Unraid because it's just easy to use and requires less administration than Proxmox.

I don't know if I'm willing to switch back now because of this. I think it depends on the pricing."

[dopeytree]

I think subscription model makes sense from a business point of view but it all depends on the price.. Self hosting is usually to avoid subscription fees. I have paid for PRO. So if moving to yearly fees I'd also be expecting a more polished user experience so they would need to provide more and not just rely on the community plugins. For example more focus on low power use & better fan control. Perhaps an undated GUI experience which I think is planed. Better documentation or at-least willingness to merge the requests that people submit. The unraid policy will need updating to reflect the extra information that is sent when updating - https://unraid.net/policies

 

Unraid is definitely the simpler server software out there & I'd like to carry on supporting unraid.

 

("Extend License"),title:tee.t("Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates.")}),eee)}))

 

Just say x is x instead of x is y. 

Edited February 19 by dopeytree

[itimpi]

Even if Limetech switch to a subscription model for "New" licences I would be surprised if they do not honour the "Lifetime" current licences.   A subscription model would allow for a much lower price entry point for new users which is something that has been that has been requested for some time.

 

Note that is just my view - I have no insider information.

[B1scu1T]

1 minute ago, itimpi said:

Even if Limetech switch to a subscription model for "New" licences I would be surprised if they do not honour the "Lifetime" current licences.   A subscription model would allow for a much lower price entry point for new users which is something that has been that has been requested for some time.

 

Note that is just my view - I have no insider information.

I have had other "lifetime" software that has moved to a subscription model, and the way they manage it without breaking the terms they sold the software on is to just release the software under a new name or version. So for example, you have a lifetime version of Unraid 6 but next year they release Unraid 7. To get this upgrade you either have to pay the subscription, or pay an upgrade fee.

I'm not totally opposed to this model if the fees are reasonable, the time between major upgrades is long, and the support level of the software reflects that, but I'm not paying $100s for software that remains largely community supported.

[itimpi]

13 minutes ago, B1scu1T said:

I have had other "lifetime" software that has moved to a subscription model, and the way they manage it without breaking the terms they sold the software on is to just release the software under a new name or version. So for example, you have a lifetime version of Unraid 6 but next year they release Unraid 7. To get this upgrade you either have to pay the subscription, or pay an upgrade fee.

I'm not totally opposed to this model if the fees are reasonable, the time between major upgrades is long, and the support level of the software reflects that, but I'm not paying $100s for software that remains largely community supported.

 

True.

 

I notice that even with the "embedded" messages posted it looks like they are tying any subscription to new releases so those happy to stay on their current release are OK.  Having said that if the prices are reasonable (e.g. something like $10 per year or similar) I would think most current users would be happy to pay both to get new functionality and to get fixes to current functionality.  Giving Limetech a regular income stream seems a good way to mean that we continue to get new functionality and fixes.  I do notice that the web site still says current licences are valid for future releases so maybe they will simply grandfather in current users for future releases.

[fiR3W4LL]

I think that's correct from the company's point of view.

Currently, the purchase of the software is based on a one-off payment and somehow perhaps you’ve reached a juncture where one-time payments are no longer sufficient..

That's why I see the step with a kind of subscription model as the right way.

But you just can't forget the users who have been with us for a long time. It's possible that some of them might jump ship if the price is too high or simply out of principle.

As B1scu1T describes it: Unraid is only what it is thanks to the community. If the community turns away because of the price and model then it can quickly go down the drain.

Edited February 19 by fiR3W4LL

[itimpi]

1 minute ago, fiR3W4LL said:

I think that's correct from the company's point of view.

Currently, the purchase of the software is based on a one-off payment and somehow perhaps you’ve reached a juncture where one-time payments are no longer sufficient..

That's why I see the step with a kind of subscription model as the right way.

But you just can't forget the users who have been with us for a long time. It's possible that some of them might jump ship if the price is too high or simply out of principle.

As B1scu1T describes it: Unraid is only what it is thanks to the community. If the community turns away because of the price model then it can quickly go down the drain.

That is why I think that Limetech may simply grandfather in existing users for new releases (effectively a "lifetime" subscription).  That would avoid upsetting the current user base and start up a more regular revenue stream.   Existing users would I think be happy with a subscription model for additional licences they may now want to purchase if the price is right.  

 

I guess we are going to have to wait and see though.

[fiR3W4LL]

14 minutes ago, itimpi said:

 

True.

 

I notice that even with the "embedded" messages posted it looks like they are tying any subscription to new releases so those happy to stay on their current release are OK.  Having said that if the prices are reasonable (e.g. something like $10 per year or similar) I would think most current users would be happy to pay both to get new functionality and to get fixes to current functionality.  Giving Limetech a regular income stream seems a good way to mean that we continue to get new functionality and fixes.  I do notice that the web site still says current licences are valid for future releases so maybe they will simply grandfather in current users for future releases.

If that would be true, i think no one will not be upset to pay this. But we have to w8 on the official statement.
I don’t think it will be long before we get it. The information is out, and many users on Reddit are upset, so the tension is rising.

[TheGleaner]

I'm on unraid due to the one time cost and the community. Given the bugs and issues I've had, I would be leaving in search for something different if a subscription does happen.

 

I would not have even considered unraid if it did have a subscription. Seeing how alot of it is run by the community now, it definitely does not sit right in any way.

 

Even as we speak here, there are multiple threads on reddit proposing alternatives-on the unraid subreddit. I'm looking for them now as if 7.0 does cost more, especially reoccurring, I see little reason why not to go and try all other big name alternatives, again.

Edited February 19 by TheGleaner

[SR Studios Tech]

A subscription based update, I have referred many many people to use Unraid as their choice operating system due to the tiered licensing plan. It is unfortunate that this is even being considered. I as well as the many that I have referred will be looking for alternatives. I get it, it's difficult to keep a rolling model operating system out with only one time purchases and pay for developers and staff. However many of us who chose Unraid as our choice operating system for our NAS storage solution chose it due to it's licensing options. If subscription costs are relatively reasonable, then perhaps it's a means to better development and bug fixes. However, if subscription prices are not, I for one will be looking for an alternative as well if this pricing model goes through, as I already have a ton of subscription services already taking their pound of flesh. Definitely will lose referrals.

Edited February 19 by SR Studios Tech

[fiR3W4LL]

15 minutes ago, TheGleaner said:

I'm on unraid due to the one time cost and the community. Given the bugs and issues I've had, I would be leaving in search for something different if a subscription does happen.

 

I would not have even considered unraid if it did have a subscription. Seeing how alot of it is run by the community now, it definitely does not sit right in any way.

 

Even as we speak here, there are multiple threads on reddit proposing alternatives-on the unraid subreddit. I'm looking for them now as if 7.0 does cost more, especially reoccurring, I see little reason why not to go and try all other big name alternatives, again.

Are there any?

DonT think so. No NAS OS is like UnRAID. My System does not consume much Power due to spinndown of the HDDs and has that easy Interface for Docker.

[Rysz]

I'm not getting involved with the guesswork about a possible future licensing model.

Should the financial need for a subscription model arise, I'll be happy to consider it for the system I've grown to love.

 

But it really hurts me to see that Unraid as a brand is taking what seems like a lot of unnecessary PR damage right now.

Unraid has always been very community reliant and driven and I'd say that was one the most liked points besides the OS.

 

All of the hate and doomsday scenarios being spun online right now could've been avoided by better communication.

I really hope a lesson is learnt from this and we'll see more up-front communication, rather than picking up the pieces later.

 

Edited February 19 by Rysz

[TheGleaner]

40 minutes ago, fiR3W4LL said:

Are there any?

DonT think so. No NAS OS is like UnRAID. My System does not consume much Power due to spinndown of the HDDs and has that easy Interface for Docker.

To a degree yes, for what I use it for anyways.

 

Before unraid I looked very hard at, what was at the time, free and true nas, along with OMV, snap raid and a few others, the last being proxmox, but since the others had a driver error of some type or another and/or a completely worthless community, I ended up here with my first generation, one generation old, AMD EPYC.

 

Do I want to move? No. Do I want to split up everything into its own place? No. Will I if a subscription is added? Yes.

 

Do I know where I'm going if the worst case scenario happens? No, but now is a good time to start looking, even if it turns out to be a waste of time in the end, rather than later, trying to beat a deadline.

 

I regularly do look for other alternative software, such as my current search for a replacement for TubeArchivist, but I did not figure I would have to look for another OS, again. Lesson learned, I guess.

Edited February 19 by TheGleaner

[fiR3W4LL]

1 minute ago, TheGleaner said:

To a degree yes, for what I use it for anyways.

 

Before unraid I looked very hard at, what was at the time, free and true nas, along with OMV, snap raid and a few others, the last being proxmox, but since the others had a driver error of some type or another and/or a completely worthless community, I ended up here with my first generation, one generation old, AMD EPYC.

 

Do I want to move? No. Do I want to split up everything into its own place? No. Will I if a subscription is added? Yes.

 

Do I know where I'm going if the worst case scenario happens? No, but now is a good time to start looking, even if it turns out to be a waste of time in the end, rather than later, trying to beat a deadline.

I understand your concerns. Over the past few weeks, I've migrated all three of my systems from Proxmox back to UnRAID. Although I already had licenses, I had to replace the sticks. Then the relevant information came out.

From my experience, Proxmox offers many possibilities, including backup. However, it requires a considerable amount of time. Therefore, I ultimately opted for the convenience of switching back to UnRAID.

None of the systems are as straightforward to manage as UnRAID. While you could run MergeFS and Snapraid on OMV, which I've done and works well, you'd have another system to manage aside from Proxmox, and updating the LXCs and their respective containers takes a lot of time. Not to mention if the SMB connections don't work correctly or if errors occur over time.

Additionally, not all systems have as clear a GUI as UnRAID.

But for now, we're just speculating. We'll have to wait and see. Even for me, it's not easy to consider another change after a weekend of migrating from Proxmox to UnRAID. However, even if the price for a lifetime license is overly high, I'll still consider purchasing it.

It shouldn't be too long now; I'm also eagerly awaiting the relevant information.

[TheGleaner]

17 minutes ago, fiR3W4LL said:

I understand your concerns. Over the past few weeks, I've migrated all three of my systems from Proxmox back to UnRAID. Although I already had licenses, I had to replace the sticks. Then the relevant information came out.

From my experience, Proxmox offers many possibilities, including backup. However, it requires a considerable amount of time. Therefore, I ultimately opted for the convenience of switching back to UnRAID.

None of the systems are as straightforward to manage as UnRAID. While you could run MergeFS and Snapraid on OMV, which I've done and works well, you'd have another system to manage aside from Proxmox, and updating the LXCs and their respective containers takes a lot of time. Not to mention if the SMB connections don't work correctly or if errors occur over time.

Additionally, not all systems have as clear a GUI as UnRAID.

But for now, we're just speculating. We'll have to wait and see. Even for me, it's not easy to consider another change after a weekend of migrating from Proxmox to UnRAID. However, even if the price for a lifetime license is overly high, I'll still consider purchasing it.

It shouldn't be too long now; I'm also eagerly awaiting the relevant information.

Yes that is basically what I found before I went with unraid, those that did not have a driver error with my system anyways(ethernet is a reasonably important thing to have working).

 

I figured $120 was a decent price at the time to save time. But even then I debated on it as $120 and soon $240 can go a long ways elsewhere, far enough that it may be worth trading perpetual savings for time and frustration with the lack of a helpful community.

[EDACerton]

1 hour ago, Rysz said:

I'm not getting involved with the guesswork about a possible future licensing model.

Should the financial need for a subscription model arise, I'll be happy to consider it for the system I've grown to love.

 

But it really hurts me to see that Unraid as a brand is taking what seems like a lot of unnecessary PR damage right now.

Unraid has always been very community reliant and driven and I'd say that was one the most liked points besides the OS.

 

All of the hate and doomsday scenarios being spun online right now could've been avoided by better communication.

I really hope a lesson is learnt from this and we'll see more up-front communication, rather than picking up the pieces later.

 

I knew that something didn't smell right when I saw the encrypted data being sent as part of the update process. It felt like there was some motive beyond what the blog post stated. That makes more sense now.

 

This situation has (at least temporarily) damaged my faith in Unraid. Not because of the potential changes, but because of how it's being done. I hope to see more up-front communication soon.

[daithi]

5 hours ago, ChatNoir said:

I thought I missed on things on the forum, so I did check on the Reddit thread.

It seems full of maybes and a self reinforcing loop of concerns. But I don't really understand the rootcause.

The code excerpt seems quite unconclusive.

 

...

 

Now, I do not have any inside information and Limetech could play the evil genius and try to backstab the community, but I don't see any proofs or even hints of that to that day.

I do agree, however, that the situation with users' doubts and fears would require more communication from the team.

All due respect but are you willingly just ignoring the actual issues people are talking about?
"I don't understand the rootcause", "The code excerpt seems quite unconclusive", "I don't see any proofs or even hints of that"

The code that has been dug up literally says:
  

"Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates.":
  "Pay your annual fee to continue receiving OS updates.",
"Your license key's OS update eligibility has expired. Please renew your license key to enable updates released after your expiration date.":
"Get a Lifetime Key": "Get a Lifetime Key",
"Key ineligible for future releases": "Key ineligible for future releases",

People are worried that Limetech, like many other tech businesses, are going to try and pull the rug out from under them.
There's a line in there that says "Get a Lifetime Key" and that has me hopeful that maybe it's all being blown out of proportion, but they need to communicate this better.

What if they try and pull some bullshit like "your lifetime was for the lifetime of 6.x, now you need a "new lifetime" for 7.x?
Yes 6.x has been around for a long, long time (2015 I believe). But who's to say that 7.x will last that long? What if I buy a "new lifetime" for 7.x in 2024 and then 8.x arrives in 2025?

Being a holiday in the States and half of Canada, I'm not expecting any official input today. So this is probably going to stew and get even more toxic before they weigh in on anything.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19 by daithi

[JorgeB]

15 minutes ago, daithi said:

So this is probably going to stew and get even more toxic before they weigh in on anything.

 

That's easy to avoid, if everyone could just stop speculating and wait for an official response, I don't believe for a second that LT would stop honoring upgrades for current lifetime keys, as for new keys in the near future, I can understand that, even if I wouldn't be my preference, but current model may just not be sustainable long term, especially if we want more and more new features.

[weirdcrap]

2 hours ago, Rysz said:

I'm not getting involved with the guesswork about a possible future licensing model.

Should the financial need for a subscription model arise, I'll be happy to consider it for the system I've grown to love.

 

But it really hurts me to see that Unraid as a brand is taking what seems like a lot of unnecessary PR damage right now.

Unraid has always been very community reliant and driven and I'd say that was one the most liked points besides the OS.

 

All of the hate and doomsday scenarios being spun online right now could've been avoided by better communication.

I really hope a lesson is learnt from this and we'll see more up-front communication, rather than picking up the pieces later.

 

It is still concerning though that LimeTech doesn't seem to have learned a lesson about communicating with the community from the last big kerfuffle that drove @CHBMB away. The community is what makes UnRAID great, and to keep the community around communication and engagement should be a priority IMO.

 

I'm also not going to speculate and get mad over what are currently entirely unconfirmed changes to the licensing model.

Edited February 19 by weirdcrap