February 13, 201313 yr Not sure why I'm posting this other than the fact that for some reason this guy specifically decided to pick on unRAID. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1457880/a-first-look-at-nzfs-and-replacing-unraid-with-nzfs-s-transparent-raid-traid
February 13, 201313 yr What little class that guy has. Doesn't he realize things like that will likely make it less likely people will use that product?
February 13, 201313 yr wow. kinda childish play in my opinion. from that post, all i got is "i made something better than unraid! use mine! stop using unraid! unraid sucks!" i don't really care if he thinks his product is better than the whole world. im happy with what i'm using.
February 13, 201313 yr I remember looking at Flexraid when I needed to replace my old HPMediaVault with something bigger. I ultimately came here because of this forum and no regrets.
February 13, 201313 yr [shrug] 1) he sounds like a douche [check] 2) I love my unraid solution [check] 3) Some of his points ARE valid [check] 4) Only WE are allowed to point out UnRaid's shortcomings [NOT-check] Really, he does sound like a douche and he even admits he is doing it on purpose. No doubt knowing that the controversy will get him attention. And he was right; I never would have heard about NZFS (I had heard of FlexRaid though), if it weren't for this very thread. So, mission accomplished on his part. His valid points aside, I would say that what he is failing to acknolwedge is that just like all the other RAID systems he mentioned have their place and their niche, so does UnRaid. Namely, it can serve its PRIMARY purpose as a protected pooled storage device using very modest hardware. As soon as I have to run a full install of Linux or Windows that steps things up a notch to include the need for dedicating a port and drive to the OS. Then again, maybe FlexRaid / NZFS can run on top of something very "thin" like Knoppix [shrug]. Regardless, it is hard to argue with UnRaids extremely low hardware requirements. Anyway, no point in trolling over there nor self-flagilating too much over here. You know, like I just did ;-)
February 13, 201313 yr [shrug] 1) he sounds like a douche [check] 2) I love my unraid solution [check] 3) Some of his points ARE valid [check] 4) Only WE are allowed to point out UnRaid's shortcomings [NOT-check] Really, he does sound like a douche and he even admits he is doing it on purpose. No doubt knowing that the controversy will get him attention. And he was right; I never would have heard about NZFS (I had heard of FlexRaid though), if it weren't for this very thread. So, mission accomplished on his part. His valid points aside, I would say that what he is failing to acknolwedge is that just like all the other RAID systems he mentioned have their place and their niche, so does UnRaid. Namely, it can serve its PRIMARY purpose as a protected pooled storage device using very modest hardware. As soon as I have to run a full install of Linux or Windows that steps things up a notch to include the need for dedicating a port and drive to the OS. Then again, maybe FlexRaid / NZFS can run on top of something very "thin" like Knoppix [shrug]. Regardless, it is hard to argue with UnRaids extremely low hardware requirements. Anyway, no point in trolling over there nor self-flagilating too much over here. You know, like I just did ;-) Awesome points. Agreed.
February 13, 201313 yr Some incorrections that need to mentioned: - Outside of FlexRAID's RAID-F technology, NZFS's tRAID is the only other system on earth to support creating a RAID array using drives with existing data on them. - tRAID also supports adding drives with existing data to an existing RAID. What about SnapRAID? - Other RAID systems (including unRAID) will format all your drives before adding them to the RAID. This means, you need to have another storage array with enough space to copy your data to and from. This create additional cost (you have to buy more drives to temporarily hold your data) and additional time (the time to copy the data out and back in). Not necessarily, if you migrate your data disk by disk, adding them in sequence. - The day the developer of unRAID is no longer able to support new hardware, you are stuck. - With NZFS, you can upgrade your hardware as your favorite OS evolves. How this applies to unRAID? Software RAID is not hardware dependable. I really doubt that if Tom stops the unRAID development, he would keep the code closed. But again, if it happens, we always can migrate to other systems. - unRAID relies on its user community to create unsupported UI plugins to restyle the default UI into something usable. Managing your precious data with an unsupported UI modification? Yikes! The default webgui is fully usable, yet it lacks polishing. But it's everything you need to create and mount an array. The rest is just panfletary. Without proper testing and time to prove it's reliability, I wouldn't put my data on it. With unRAID, I just never lost one bit of data. My 2 cents is that their new product is not receiving a lot of attention, so they polemize. It's a cheap trick to attract possible customers. Basically, I will use the money I will get from taking unRAID's customer base to fund my competition against Data Robotics, NetApp, and Synology. Eat the small fish first, get some strength, then go after the big fish. Straight enough? That says everything about it. He's desperate to arrange some funds.
February 13, 201313 yr I really doubt that if Tom stops the unRAID development, he would keep the code closed. But again, if it happens, we always can migrate to other systems. I'm sure that I've seen it stated that the unRAID code is lodged in escrow.
February 14, 201313 yr I really doubt that if Tom stops the unRAID development, he would keep the code closed. But again, if it happens, we always can migrate to other systems. I'm sure that I've seen it stated that the unRAID code is lodged in escrow. Yes, that was posted. it's the gui (emhttp) and shared filesystem that is not open source. The unraid / md drivers are open source.
February 14, 201313 yr I couldn't help but comment on that thread, and perhaps my standpoint might be a little self-serving, but it's out there anyway. What a twat.
February 14, 201313 yr The "taking on" NetApp thing is funny... probably the DC I work in has more $$$ worth of NetApp equipment than the combined lifetime sales of Flexraid and Unraid put together...
February 15, 201313 yr While you have to be eager hungry and motivated to get ahead, over confidence and arrogance will ruin it all.
February 15, 201313 yr The "taking on" NetApp thing is funny... probably the DC I work in has more $$$ worth of NetApp equipment than the combined lifetime sales of Flexraid and Unraid put together... He/She/It/They can dream. But this is delusional, the stated parameters of whatever "the creator of Flexraid" is hiding has no chance of entering the enterprise world. Too many conflicting functions, some shared by unRAID. For example; -Each drive can be pulled and read in another system by itself. -In case of failure past the tolerance level, surviving drives are fully readable/writable. In order to accomplish this, all of a file has to be written so that it can be removed from the array. This limits the performance/capacity to single drive performance/capacity. Game over man. -With NZFS, you can upgrade your hardware as your favorite OS evolves. http://www.openegg.org/2012/02/17/nzfs-goes-100-kernel-mode/ Windows (and Linux) OS evolution requires kernel level drivers to evolve, or is He/She/It too young to have experienced the life of a kernel driver writer? And I must have missed the discussion of file locks, dedup and compression, not insignificant requirements to enter the enterprise space.
February 15, 201313 yr Dont prod the animals no good can come of it. We'll have to agree to disagree there - I am a firm believer that people like this should be taken to task, and have seen more than one instance of good coming of it.
February 15, 201313 yr You know... I am very positive on unraid and I do not see a reason to move to something else. But nothing is sacred and I have moved from platform to platform for other solution also. To be honoust, I have no idea if I will be using unraid a year from now. Not because I am unhappy with it now but it is part of IT that sometimes other parties come up with a different solution and then I switch.. As far as the wording is concerned, its not the way I would do it but is more and more the way companies advertise, check out the amazon commercial that is attacking the ipad.. Or even your average Pizza delivery service dishing out against each other. There is also no sense in arguing in the thread of the writer, if you are positive on unraid you will be considered a fanboy.. I am pretty sure Tom does not worry about it. Quality will allways prevail. Actually this is a nice setup. While Tom has stated shooting for ButterFS, Flexraid is going towards ZFS.. Both are now also competing online: http://www.rkeene.org/projects/info/wiki/165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4356053 I look forward to the new level in storage, both ZFS and BTRFS seem to make that leap, a bit of competition might help to get the best out of both versions :-)
February 15, 201313 yr You know... I am very positive on unraid and I do not see a reason to move to something else. But nothing is sacred and I have moved from platform to platform for other solution also. To be honoust, I have no idea if I will be using unraid a year from now. Not because I am unhappy with it now but it is part of IT that sometimes other parties come up with a different solution and then I switch.. As far as the wording is concerned, its not the way I would do it but is more and more the way companies advertise, check out the amazon commercial that is attacking the ipad.. Or even your average Pizza delivery service dishing out against each other. There is also no sense in arguing in the thread of the writer, if you are positive on unraid you will be considered a fanboy.. I am pretty sure Tom does not worry about it. Quality will allways prevail. Actually this is a nice setup. While Tom has stated shooting for ButterFS, Flexraid is going towards ZFS.. Both are now also competing online: http://www.rkeene.org/projects/info/wiki/165 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4356053 I look forward to the new level in storage, both ZFS and BTRFS seem to make that leap, a bit of competition might help to get the best out of both versions :-) Wise words! Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
February 15, 201313 yr I look forward to the new level in storage, both ZFS and BTRFS seem to make that leap, a bit of competition might help to get the best out of both versions :-) Disclaimer: I make my living in the ZFS world. Did you miss the part on how both are limited/controlled by Oracle, and only BTRFS is going forward? Yes, there is lots of work being done on ZFS by many factions. Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Comparisons for one list of versions. But ZFS continues to be effectively hemmed into boundaries defined by Oracle. While BTRFS is moving to reach the stability and functionality of ZFS. Don't misunderstand the position of NAS OEMs on ZFS, they will switch as soon as the market demands. And several are working to be the first in the switch, to be seen as the market leader. unRAID has feature and function outside the goals of ZFS and BTRFS which are popular reasons why it is the choice of media server builders. I have tried FlexRAID. Yes, that is the product's name, regardless of recent posts by the "creator of FlexRAID". Hit of the buy/download page to see for yourself. Tom, did you hire a great marketing company? First take the FlexRAID name off the product, and then have an unpurchasable product shout your product is second best (but the only purchasable one)!
February 15, 201313 yr Tom, did you hire a great marketing company? First take the FlexRAID name off the product, and then have an unpurchasable product shout your product is second best (but the only purchasable one)! I swear I thought of this too ... or more specifically, I was giggling at the possibility of colusion
February 15, 201313 yr I look forward to the new level in storage, both ZFS and BTRFS seem to make that leap, a bit of competition might help to get the best out of both versions :-) Disclaimer: I make my living in the ZFS world. Did you miss the part on how both are limited/controlled by Oracle, and only BTRFS is going forward? Yes, there is lots of work being done on ZFS by many factions. Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS#Comparisons for one list of versions. But ZFS continues to be effectively hemmed into boundaries defined by Oracle. While BTRFS is moving to reach the stability and functionality of ZFS. Don't misunderstand the position of NAS OEMs on ZFS, they will switch as soon as the market demands. And several are working to be the first in the switch, to be seen as the market leader. I know, I have seen some youtube stuff on BTRFS and it looks pretty amazing... The thing that wonders me though is that it is a radical change for unraid as far as I understand it. At the moment unraid is basic linux sharing with a propriety on-top driver that Tom created. With BTRFS there does not seem to be a need for such a driver. That would mean that the added benefit for having unraid will need to be something else then the propriety driver.. So therefor kind of a major shift in the development side for Tom.. Or do I have my facts wrong ?
February 16, 201313 yr Someone want to tell me why I would want to go back to maintaining a full blown distro just to run this or am I missing something? Kryspy
February 17, 201313 yr Someone want to tell me why I would want to go back to maintaining a full blown distro just to run this or am I missing something? You wouldn't and every NAS manufacturer tries very hard to strip everything out of whatever OS they are running, but it is nice for home users to be able to fatten it back up for the applications they desire. Hence the plugins, etc being made available.
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