Announcing New Unraid OS License Keys

[limetech]

4 minutes ago, ConnerVT said:

Looks as that is also to be defined as a "software update" which doesn't seem to be to anyone's benefit - Unraid user or Limetech.

No spin - I honestly don't know what you are asking.

[SpencerJ]

Quote

It's any publicly published version of Unraid OS

7 minutes ago, ConnerVT said:

My concern is more about going from minor updates

 

Minor Updates are included under the new policy.

[Leseratte10]

Do you have any plans to decouple OS security updates (which every user should get even if their license is expired) from UnRAID feature updates, then, if people with an expired license don't even get minor updates?

 

Otherwise quite a few UnRAID boxes are going to become outdated security risks and are going to get hacked eventually ...

[Ricky_CheesyChips]

As a relative newcomer to unraid, I see the tremendous value it offers, but I do have to admit that I would have been turned off by a recurring pricing model and would not have been as eager to jump in to this ecosystem if this were on the radar. This is already paid software in a market against free options (OMV, TrueNas) so I don't believe you're going to win additional users over on this.

 

You're also getting very biased feedback on this forum because the only people who are here largely already own a license, so they don't have a stake in this, as they'll be grandfathered (until this changes, which it probably will, let's face it, every time this happens, it comes to a point where the grandfathered tier ends too)

 

This is why the coverage on reddit is less favorable. These are potential unraid subscribers saying "I don't think this works for me" - these are the voices we need to listen to, because, guess what, if you can't bring in the new subscribers to drive your cash flow issues, it'll be even sooner that you need to cannibalize your grandfather tier to meet the payroll demands.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that folks need to get paid and that a reliable revenue stream is a necessity, I don't hold this against you, but I do feel very conflicted about how you're choosing to go about implementing this, because there is a solid lack of information on whether security/bug fix/data loss updates will be applied for new users once this licensing goes through.

 

Given that we've only recently discoved a long-standing major zfs bug in the last few months, the idea that extremely critical data loss vulnerabilities will go unpatched for users after a year is a disappointing choice, not a small "detail" as it's been expressed in prior posts. I can guarantee you that once the licensing changes solidify, that the first time there's a major vulnerability, it will blow up everywhere, get carried by all the tech media, flood the support forums - that will eliminate any goodwill that would drive new butts into seats. If the new licensing scheme doesn't readily attract users, the change is all for naught.

 

I'm monitoring this cautiously, but I'd like to strongly recommend that you clarify if security, bugfix and data loss updates are pushed for folks without a subscription. I can tell you now that if another long-standing ZFS bug comes out at a point in the future, and there's an entire class of unraid users who need to re-up/pay to fix it (or worse yet, are left to feel like they have to pay to get support to recover data), they will loudly move to a different product, community support will eventually falter and this will just be another product that was good at one time.

 

Also, I'm curious how much of a cash inflow you've seen now that there's a potential secondary market of folks buying basic keys en-masse to resell/hold their spot in the legacy tier as it will always be a better product than what you're providing now. By fudging this announcement, you've basically just designed a black market resale scheme for years to come.

 

This is a problematic launch and a problematic idea, albeit for a good cause. Seriously disappointed.

Edited February 20 by Ricky_CheesyChips
Edited to fix some typos and clarify some of my many run-on sentences. (I have an IT background, not an English degree)

[Michael_P]

1 hour ago, limetech said:

We're also not going to play any games like coming up with "NewUnraid OS" where all of a sudden your key won't work or we start charging an extra fee to keep using

 

Thanks for this clarity - this is the majority of what we've come to hate from software-as-a-service

[Tomo82]

I hope it's not too off-topic, it's kind of related to licensing: When can we get rid of USB Key requirement!?!?!?! I hate it, it's the weakest, most annoying part of Unraid for me.

[dgriff]

8 hours ago, IlTossico said:

It's amazing the amount of people that can't read. 

The FUD from unraid competitors and fans of the competition is only just beginning.  Look for a huge disinformation campaign.

[kcgodwins]

My only non-monetary concern relative to this is maintaining backwards compatibility in apps/plugins going forward, since obviously this new situation is going to introduce a scenario where some people are not going to want to upgrade due to the additional cost.

 

Case in point -- I'm currently running 6.11.5; I'm planning to upgrade to 6.12.x at some point relatively soon but still haven't gotten there due to a number of reasons.  That said, the minimum requirement for the Community Applications plugin is 6.12.x as of November of last year.  This means I've stopped applying CA upgrades to my system until I get to 6.12.

 

I'm grandfathered (allegedly (lol)) so it's not going to be an issue for me but it may be an issue for someone new to the platform down the road.

 

I'm a grateful user of all these apps and I know very little about what goes into making them all mesh together, so I'm not sure if maintaining backward compatibility is even a reasonable ask, but figured I'd at least point it out.

 

Cheers.

[HardwareHarry]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:23 PM, limetech said:

....here is what we have planned.

 

We are going to introduce two new keys:

• Starter - supports up to 4 devices.  This will be offered at a lower price than today's Basic key.
• Unleashed - supports unlimited number of devices. This will be offered at about the same price as today's Plus key.

These two new keys provide for free Unraid OS updates for one year following activation.  After a year you have the option of extending the key for another year of updates for a fraction of the cost of the original key.  If you choose not to extend, you can still run any version of Unraid OS released prior to your renewal date, back to version 6.12.8.

 

[....]; but, Pro keys (with unlimited devices and Unraid OS updates for life) will still be offered.  We might change the name of the key from Pro to Lifetime - that is one of the "minor details" we are still working on.

 

Nothing changes for existing Basic/Plus/Pro keys: you still get Unraid OS updates for life and you will still have the option to upgrade Basic to Plus/Pro or Plus to Pro.

 

 

 

On 2/19/2024 at 7:47 PM, sazrocks said:

Does this include unRAID 7.0 and other such future major versions?

 

On 2/19/2024 at 8:11 PM, limetech said:

Yes.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 8:23 PM, limetech said:

 

A small point: it's not a subscription fee in this sense: with a subscription if you don't renew then the service ends.  By contrast if you do not extend your Starter or Unleashed key your server still runs as before and you still have complete access to your data, etc.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 8:28 PM, limetech said:

The current 28-device limitation applies to the unRAID array. You can have any number of btrfs/zfs pools with other devices.  An upcoming version will let you have multiple unRAID arrays though we don't plan on increasing the width of a single unRAID array.  With your Pro key you'll get this update for free 🙂

 

On 2/19/2024 at 8:51 PM, limetech said:

You Plus key will function the same way it always has.

 

3 hours ago, limetech said:

 

It's any publicly published version of Unraid OS, including "major" version updates, eg, from v6 to v7.  We're also not going to play any games like coming up with "NewUnraid OS" where all of a sudden your key won't work or we start charging an extra fee to keep using.

 

THANKS !!!

First I want to mention that I really get that you need more cash to get new employees and it's absolutely fair and I like that you are so honest about it.

 

Second as someone who bought 2 Pro licenses (Server and Backup) for my private data (so non business use) despite a  "Plus" or a Basic"License would have been sufficient but I liked the license model you provide so I wanted to support that.

 

Third an most important:

All fears I had were clarified. Please keep your promises.

I also want to mention that If you keep it that way you said above I really think you are doing everything right. 

 

 

My experience, with Vuescan from hamrick [btw this is a really fantastic software for scanners and I highly recommend it!]) of which I also have a lifetime license and the changed the license model in a similar way,- was that 

1. Grandfathering old licenses is the 100% correct way to go and it sounds like you really seems to embrace that in every aspect. I really appreciate that.

2. The game of "we'll just rename it to make it EOL" is a brazen, unfair and dubious move, so I think it's 100% right not to do that. It also encourages me to continue supporting Unraid (and by the way, to recommend you very often)

3. I prefer paying one time, even it it's higher priced, and get a lifetime license (which for example I can't get with Vuescan anymore) therefor thanks a lot for still providing this option

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by HardwareHarry

[isvein]

2 hours ago, Tomo82 said:

I hope it's not too off-topic, it's kind of related to licensing: When can we get rid of USB Key requirement!?!?!?! I hate it, it's the weakest, most annoying part of Unraid for me.

As Tom said in the podcast, wont happen any time soon.
For many, having Unraid 100% offline is something they want. IF Unraid was to be able to be installed on any drive, they had to look into other things (UUID) the license had to be bound to or have an always online drm (phone home)
The majority of Unraid users dont want internet to be an requirement to use Unraid.

if having to boot from the USB is such a pain, I would look into an USB-DOM instead.

[PackRatt]

Glad I got my licenses before now. Going to upgrade my last license to pro. Won't be getting any more licenses. I refuse to get subscription service software. Everyone wants to go to this model. I don't understand how companies expect us to afford all these subscriptions.  

 

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely enjoy my unraid servers. Had 2 more planned.  Unraid is easy to use, works for my needs, and just works well with everything I have tossed on it. 

 

Just can't afford paying for subscriptions to all the software vendors for all the software I like to use. One of them wants 250.00 ( which I refuse to pay) a year. Just no. I'm not spending 1000's a year. I can live without. 

 

I wish them luck though.  I hope they don't loose too many customers from this. 

[Neo_x]

Hi Tom /Team

10 years plus user here (struggling to find that email where i bought my pro license).
Difficult choice you guys are facing, but a business has to remain afloat.

a possible option, for lifetime pro users, is to donate to the limetech project. ie have a website track the upcoming expenses for the year, and showing how much of that total has been met?

understand it is a bit of a shift, but i will 100% support your product, witha bit more visibilty on where the money goes (wnat what you are short)
even if it is a small amount of maybe 10/20/30USD per year (user choise), i believe it will fill a few holes.

keep up the good work!

Regards

[0xMDIV]

I have another take on it.
Yes its open source or better say you can build it yourself but limetech is so kindly to bundle it with a nice gui, many things in the background and you can update the whole bunch with a simple update button.
So i would prefer a voluntarily option instead of the new model.
So the Users can choose what they want to pay and in what interval they like to pay.
i Think there are many of us who can easily send you some dollars or even hundreds per month just because they like the product at it is

[Daniel15]

11 hours ago, IlTossico said:

It's amazing the amount of people that can't read. 

If people could read and search, this forum would have 80% fewer posts 😛

[EDACerton]

22 minutes ago, 0xMDIV said:

I have another take on it.
Yes its open source or better say you can build it yourself but limetech is so kindly to bundle it with a nice gui, many things in the background and you can update the whole bunch with a simple update button.
So i would prefer a voluntarily option instead of the new model.
So the Users can choose what they want to pay and in what interval they like to pay.
i Think there are many of us who can easily send you some dollars or even hundreds per month just because they like the product at it is

1. The "core" of Unraid (the main array) isn't open source, and there aren't any "equals" to it in the OSS world (there are things that are similar, but nothing that has the whole feature set to my knowledge).

 

2. Even if "similar" is good enough, configuring an OSS-based system is still more complicated to deploy/configure/monitor/maintain.

 

3. Donations "just because people like the product as it is" sounds nice, but in practice very few people actually do that. (Simple example, because I know the numbers: I created and maintain the Tailscale plugin for Unraid. There are around 6,000 active installs right now. Of those 6,000 installs, I've had 3 people send anything via the donation button - 0.05%. I'm not complaining, just pointing out how things work in reality.)

Edited February 20 by EDACerton

[EDACerton]

3 hours ago, Ricky_CheesyChips said:

Also, I'm curious how much of a cash inflow you've seen now that there's a potential secondary market of folks buying basic keys en-masse to resell/hold their spot in the legacy tier as it will always be a better product than what you're providing now. By fudging this announcement, you've basically just designed a black market resale scheme for years to come.

FYI for anyone reading, doing this is against the Unraid policies:

 

Quote

No License Transfers

Lime Technology does not support the transfer of Unraid OS licenses to a 3rd party for any reason whatsoever. If you are an OEM partner or buying for a third party, please select the OEM toggle at checkout.

https://unraid.net/policies

[Labeled]

Biggest red flag here is to the best of my knowledge, updates are never released without versioning, which implies no security updates. 

 

What plans are being implemented for managing security updates?

[daithi]

Unless certain parts of the OS can be decoupled from the rest, I can't see how security updates would be pushed to people who's "Upgrade License" has expired. LT aren't going to maintain every single point release so they can push a bugfix to every Tom on 6.12.6, Dick on 6.12.8 and Harry on 7.0.1

We've seen Google do this with Android, where your Play Services or WebView can be updated through the Play Store without the Hardware OEM pushing a OS update. That has taken them years (and you could argue it's still a work in progress).

And as for community developed plugins... I think it's a little unreasonable to expect volunteers to keep old versions alive. Nobody is making plugins for Photoshop 5 or Fruity Loops 12 either.

[psm321]

33 minutes ago, EDACerton said:

1. The "core" of Unraid (the main array) isn't open source, and there aren't any "equals" to it in the OSS world (there are things that are similar, but nothing that has the whole feature set to my knowledge).

That depends on what you consider "core"... The unraid kernel driver (which is what I would call "the main array") is in fact open source.  But I guess shfs is a major component for people too...

I'm pretty concerned that there's been no answer on the privacy issues...

[MacGee]

Hi all,

just bought a Plus License.

Do I have to redeem my Activation Key before the switch happens to the new licensing system in order to keep the lifetime benefit ?
If so, how much time do I have ?
I ask, because I don't have time to setup a new server this week in order to redeem my activation code.

Thanks

[Frank1940]

LimeTech has a problem in meeting the expectations of users for more technically complex features and improvements without a significant increase in cash flow. (This is a problem that I have seen coming for the past few years and I have been wondering how they were going to address it.) I feel that the customer base for Unraid is finite and finding enough new customers willing to purchase using the present lifetime license to support these development costs will come at increasing costs in advertising.

 

They are in the process of finalizing a decision to address this issue. It is a compromise. They have decided to honored the previous agreement that current license holders would continue to get all Software updates free of charge. The will continue to offer a lifetime license at a higher cost (price not announced) than the current Pro license. They are also offering a semi-subscription based license with a low upfront buy-in cost but a periodical fee for future updates. Even this plan is optional and the buy-in license holder, who opted out, could return for future updates without penalty by opting back in.**

 

As a long term user, I am grateful for this approach. LimeTech has avoid upsetting those long-term users who provide 96+ percent of the customer support on the community forums to other users.

 

Yes, they will lose some customers who will not buy Unraid because of their new licensing system. But these are the same people who would only be completely happy if the software were free or priced so low that it might as well be free.

 

Time will only tell if these changes are what is required for LimeTech to continue to be able to provide viable Unraid OS in the years ahead.

 

** One observation. Recently, I have been reading that there are a lot of people who are continuing to pay for monthly subscriptions that they never use. I am not sure why people do such things but I was born at the end of the Great Depression and it was ingrained into me to watch every penny that was spent.

[SpencerJ]

5 minutes ago, MacGee said:

Do I have to redeem my Activation Key before the switch happens to the new licensing system in order to keep the lifetime benefit ?

 

No.

[SpencerJ]

1 hour ago, psm321 said:

I'm pretty concerned that there's been no answer on the privacy issues...

 

Per https://unraid.net/blog/new-update-os-tool, We state:

Quote

When checking for an update the server's license information, flash information (vendor, model, GUID), and basic server details (like name, description, IP, version) are used to validate your license and help us provide a better customer experience. [Emphasis mine]

 

While we believe this is accurate and still holds true, we are re-reviewing and will come out with a more detailed response to provide further clarity. 

[BRiT]

2 hours ago, Daniel15 said:

If people could read and search, this forum would have 80% fewer posts

 

Yes, but unfortunately this forum software has absolutely horrible search functionality.

[Daniel15]

9 minutes ago, BRiT said:

Yes, but unfortunately this forum software has absolutely horrible search functionality.

 

I'm suprised Invision is still around... I was a developer on SMF nearly 20 years ago, and even back then Invision (or IPB as it was known back then) was losing popularity. it's quite expensive for what you get. For search, Google with `site:forums.unraid.net` in the query seems to work well enough. Interestingly, around 10 years ago they got rid of their perpetual licenses and forced people to switch to subscriptions.

Edited February 21 by Daniel15