Announcing New Unraid OS License Keys

[tjb_altf4]

2 hours ago, Labeled said:

Biggest red flag here is to the best of my knowledge, updates are never released without versioning, which implies no security updates. 

 

What plans are being implemented for managing security updates?

Not sure if this has been clarified yet, but similar subscription/support models I've seen elsewhere give free patch level upgrades, e.g. if your support period ends on 6.14.x release, you will get any .x updates included, but you can't go to +6.15.x without renewing.

This is what I hope LT will adopt for Unraid, and will actually make certain versioning decisions more important for them in regards to support and revenue.

Edited February 21 by tjb_altf4

[trurl]

For anyone thinking recent events will drive customers away:

 

[Oneway]

I have seen the question many times without any answers.  Will the current pricing apply to those that have a grandfathered key, for when they upgrade in the future.  Or will they be subject to the new pricing?

[dgriff]

1 hour ago, Oneway said:

I have seen the question many times without any answers.  Will the current pricing apply to those that have a grandfathered key, for when they upgrade in the future.  Or will they be subject to the new pricing?

Grandfathered will continue to get all upgrades free for life.  It’s been stated in the vlog.

[Hoopster]

11 minutes ago, dgriff said:

Grandfathered will continue to get all upgrades free for life.  It’s been stated in the vlog.

I think @Oneway is asking if license upgrades (basic to plus/pro, plus to pro) will be at current pricing in the future or if there will be a new pricing model for these upgrades. I do not believe he/she is asking about updates to Unraid itself (minor or major versions).

[awa1992]

17 minutes ago, dgriff said:

Grandfathered will continue to get all upgrades free for life.  It’s been stated in the vlog.

I believe they were asking about upgrade pricing in the future for current license holders

Edited February 21 by awa1992

[OliverRC]

One word "enshitification"

[Daniel15]

13 minutes ago, OliverRC said:

One word "enshitification"

This is not a two-sided market so I'm not sure how "enshittification" is relevant.

[Leseratte10]

9 hours ago, isvein said:

As Tom said in the podcast, wont happen any time soon.
For many, having Unraid 100% offline is something they want. IF Unraid was to be able to be installed on any drive, they had to look into other things (UUID) the license had to be bound to or have an always online drm (phone home)
The majority of Unraid users dont want internet to be an requirement to use Unraid.

if having to boot from the USB is such a pain, I would look into an USB-DOM instead.

 

I mean, they could just offer the solution if people want it. 

 

Just make a toggle somewhere when you buy the license - do you want a license that's bound to a USB drive or do you want a license that's bound to the internet and requires connecting to a server every week or so to verify it's already valid. Best of both worlds and everyone can choose what they like best.

 

7 hours ago, daithi said:

Unless certain parts of the OS can be decoupled from the rest, I can't see how security updates would be pushed to people who's "Upgrade License" has expired. LT aren't going to maintain every single point release so they can push a bugfix to every Tom on 6.12.6, Dick on 6.12.8 and Harry on 7.0.1

We've seen Google do this with Android, where your Play Services or WebView can be updated through the Play Store without the Hardware OEM pushing a OS update. That has taken them years (and you could argue it's still a work in progress).

And as for community developed plugins... I think it's a little unreasonable to expect volunteers to keep old versions alive. Nobody is making plugins for Photoshop 5 or Fruity Loops 12 either.

 

One easy way to solve that would be to add some mapping in UnRAID. Like "ZFS is introduced on 2024-xx-xx, some-other-new-feature is introduced on 2025-xx-xx" and that for each new actual feature that's released. 

 

Then they can let everyone update to the newest UnRAID to get security updates and bugfixes (even if the license is expired), but UnRAID can check the date the license file was issued at, and only allow people to use ZFS or "some-other-new-feature" if the license file was valid at the point in time where said feature was added. 

 

This means that they wouldn't put OS updates and bugfixes behind a subscription, just actual new *features*. And they don't have any extra work maintaining two branches, all they need is a simple feature toggle in the latest UnRAID that blocks the new feature if the license is too old.

 

But I guess that depends on what LimeTech *wants*. Do they actually want to put all updates behind a subscription wall (including security fixes and bugfixes) and are only selling it with the "new features cost money to develop" take - or do they actually *want* to only charge for actual new features and just figured limiting access to updates is the easiest way to do that?

 

I'd be pissed if right after my subscription ended a new point release was released that fixed bugs that I reported earlier, or fixes important CVEs that have just been published, and I couldn't install that ...

Edited February 21 by Leseratte10

[Hostile_18]

Thats a great idea, and the best comprimise ive seen between the need for security updates vs the cost of maintaining/supporting multiple versions. Just make the new features only disabled for "expired" licencees. I suppose the only trouble there is general quality of life improvements that are harder to just have a toggle on/off. It would be a comprimise of LT giving little things (like UI improvements) for "free".

[illone]

Hello, I've never used Unraid before, but I'm about to build a server, and I would like to use Unraid. My question is, should I hurry up and buy a Pro for $129 and then I will get updates for life, I think it's better to buy now than to wait for the new licenses right?

[Hostile_18]

19 minutes ago, illone said:

Hello, I've never used Unraid before, but I'm about to build a server, and I would like to use Unraid. My question is, should I hurry up and buy a Pro for $129 and then I will get updates for life, I think it's better to buy now than to wait for the new licenses right?

 

Even the basic and Plus versions offered now will have updates for life. I did the same though and went with Pro yesterday, as I probably will 12+ drives eventually (all SSD media NAS).

[isvein]

40 minutes ago, illone said:

Hello, I've never used Unraid before, but I'm about to build a server, and I would like to use Unraid. My question is, should I hurry up and buy a Pro for $129 and then I will get updates for life, I think it's better to buy now than to wait for the new licenses right?

56min45sec

[Oneway]

6 hours ago, Hoopster said:

I think @Oneway is asking if license upgrades (basic to plus/pro, plus to pro) will be at current pricing in the future or if there will be a new pricing model for these upgrades. I do not believe he/she is asking about updates to Unraid itself (minor or major versions).

That is exactly what I am asking about, the pricing, NOT the future free upgrades.  Thanks for understanding.  Still no answer yet.

 

Another question:

If someone has a new model 1-year license, and at the time of their renewal they were eligible for an upgrade to a newer version, but for some reason are unable to.  Will that person still be able to upgrade to the version that was commercially available at the time of their renewal, or are they stuck where they are?

 

This also begs the question if for some reason someone upgrades, but rolls back during their 1-year, and their 1-year lapses, will they still be eligible for the upgrade after their renewal?

 

This is for those people like myself, that do not roll out the update once it is released.  I am pretty capable, but sometimes there are problems that are in the release that no-one smart enough to solve it, has written about it yet.

 

I myself love UnRaid, and have recently purchased my second Pro license.  So as long as nothing changes, I am immune to any of this.  But I would like to understand for when I recommend UnRaid to others, or I have a need for a third server, I know how it is going to be.

[dopeytree]

The debate seems to be about paying new fees but I'm more interested in the roadmap features and timescales.

 

Presumably if no buys the yearly fees for new licences then things will be pushed back & updates will be slow & might just be bug fixes with occasional new feature. Like we got basic ZFS thing past year (awesome work guys) with a 2nd part of ZFS coming soon. I'm excited. 

[starbetrayer]

3 hours ago, illone said:

Hello, I've never used Unraid before, but I'm about to build a server, and I would like to use Unraid. My question is, should I hurry up and buy a Pro for $129 and then I will get updates for life, I think it's better to buy now than to wait for the new licenses right?

hurry up and buy pro

[IggyWhite]

I'm fairly new to Unraid (Pro license), but you guys have my full support; you have a great product.

"Everything should be free" mindset is a cancer.

If someone has the money to buy a hardware to run Unraid on, then they have the money to buy a license, whatever tier they may need.

 

[Hastur]

45 minutes ago, Oneway said:

That is exactly what I am asking about, the pricing, NOT the future free upgrades.  Thanks for understanding.  Still no answer yet.

 

Another question:

If someone has a new model 1-year license, and at the time of their renewal they were eligible for an upgrade to a newer version, but for some reason are unable to.  Will that person still be able to upgrade to the version that was commercially available at the time of their renewal, or are they stuck where they are?

 

This also begs the question if for some reason someone upgrades, but rolls back during their 1-year, and their 1-year lapses, will they still be eligible for the upgrade after their renewal?

 

This is for those people like myself, that do not roll out the update once it is released.  I am pretty capable, but sometimes there are problems that are in the release that no-one smart enough to solve it, has written about it yet.

 

I myself love UnRaid, and have recently purchased my second Pro license.  So as long as nothing changes, I am immune to any of this.  But I would like to understand for when I recommend UnRaid to others, or I have a need for a third server, I know how it is going to be.

I have exactly the same concerns and questions.
I love Unraid software, I tried OMV, Truenas and bunch other niche solution. I pick Unraid mainly becouse of friendly implementation and one time pay.

Currently i've got one homelab server with "plus" and one backup server with "basic" licence and it's more than enough for my needs.
Yes i know, I've read already all 8 pages of this thread, read blog post and watch podcast.
I understood that my licence will work in future just like today (i hope) but if I ever need to upgrade both licence to PRO, does pricing will be still the same? Curently upgrade  cost is $79 + $49 for my licences.
IDK if i shoudl upgrade licence ASAP to PRO becouse LT may increase upgrade cost to PRO licence in some distant future (1 maybe 2 years?).

Please guys keep in mind that somebody may live in country where about 130$ is already quite big money.
I know, i can live with that, this software is worth this money.
But if the prices of upgrade wil increases for example to 300$ or more (plus cost of already purchased licences) my whole concept of cheap DIY homelab/NAS solution is pointless.

Sorry everyone for my "cheap" thinking but i unfortunately need to include price/added value ratio in my home budget for DIY projects

[Danny N]

overall i think this change is a good one, as a user its annoying for subsciptions (expecally as it often comes with so much extra drm that often messes up when internet dies or just cause it feels like it) but at the end of the day updates do cost money to make and if there isnt some ongoing cost model then we fall into the trap of plex where they are constantly adding the latest new newsworthy feature while the core product and other housekeeping items get neglected, this being said i feel like like a few things should be a little different:
1. there should be a discount for those with unraid on multiple machines, as for people who follow the 3-2-1 backup rule with 3 servers that are more than 4 drives each (in the way of older smaller drives) are basically having to buy 3 renuals, i feel it would be very fair to say the for these users upgrades are the renual cost of the most expensive teir (so starter or unleshed), with the other servers being something like 10-15% of the normal cost (expecally as its been said the renual pricing per year is half the new licence cost - maybe this should be something tied to storage space rather than drives so its fair to people reusing older hardware and saving it from the landfill, as it looks like theres will be a huge difference between starter and unleshed inc in renual pricing)

2. id also like to see a perpetual licence teir for starter as unraid has uses outside of file storage, (i achally ended up spliting plex to its own mini pc and used unraid for that as a seperate n100 at idle used less power than the GTX1650 at idle that i used in my main server, sufice to say i wouldnt update this server under the new system and would have probably not bothered with unraid entirly for it so that would be a lost sale - i just knew exactly how plex worked with unraid worked and didnt bother with doing it differently)
3. security updates / bugfixes should be free, going from 6.12.0 to 6.12.8 should be free even for thoses whos updates have expired, i get it costs money but these are small bugfix updates that fix bugs (aka mistakes in the code) like with what happened in early 6.12 releses (6.12.0 to 6.12.4 i think it was) with some networking issues this shouldnt require paying as it was a mistake in the network implemtation, it would also just increase the amount of people needing support for known and fixed issues which will take time on tickets ect overall this does make me wonder if unraid should more move to a system of every update is charged for (so 6.12 6.13 6.14 7.0 ect) vs it being a fixed timeframe as this would eliminate people being a little mad about paying for a years worth of updates and delays maining that dont see any meaningful updates in that year (to them) or just missing something as it comes out a week after it expires, theres alot of ways this can be done but overall i feel that subscriptions are a over done thing in software and most companys abuse the extra income that subscriptions can offer, based on unraids track record i dont feel like its the case here but thats what alot of people are going to see and i feel like clear expectations should be made as to what your getting (maybe a guarenteed 2x 6.x updates per term or something if not payment is pause till it comes out?) and the best way to do that is to pay for the feature relese after its made as then no user can complain they didnt know what they was getting

Overall i feel this is one of those changes that kinda sucks for the end user but can understand it and really want to recognice that no bait and switch has been pulled by grandfathering all older users in to forever updates and not changing the name or something like calling them upgrades not updates and saying the old licence dont cover upgrades so pay up.
also sorry for waffling a little but alot of ideas (that im sure has been considered) but didnt really know how to put it in words

[Veah]

20 hours ago, Ricky_CheesyChips said:

As a relative newcomer to unraid, I see the tremendous value it offers, but I do have to admit that I would have been turned off by a recurring pricing model and would not have been as eager to jump in to this ecosystem if this were on the radar. This is already paid software in a market against free options (OMV, TrueNas) so I don't believe you're going to win additional users over on this.

 

You're also getting very biased feedback on this forum because the only people who are here largely already own a license, so they don't have a stake in this, as they'll be grandfathered (until this changes, which it probably will, let's face it, every time this happens, it comes to a point where the grandfathered tier ends too)

 

This is why the coverage on reddit is less favorable. These are potential unraid subscribers saying "I don't think this works for me" - these are the voices we need to listen to, because, guess what, if you can't bring in the new subscribers to drive your cash flow issues, it'll be even sooner that you need to cannibalize your grandfather tier to meet the payroll demands.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that folks need to get paid and that a reliable revenue stream is a necessity, I don't hold this against you, but I do feel very conflicted about how you're choosing to go about implementing this, because there is a solid lack of information on whether security/bug fix/data loss updates will be applied for new users once this licensing goes through.

 

Given that we've only recently discoved a long-standing major zfs bug in the last few months, the idea that extremely critical data loss vulnerabilities will go unpatched for users after a year is a disappointing choice, not a small "detail" as it's been expressed in prior posts. I can guarantee you that once the licensing changes solidify, that the first time there's a major vulnerability, it will blow up everywhere, get carried by all the tech media, flood the support forums - that will eliminate any goodwill that would drive new butts into seats. If the new licensing scheme doesn't readily attract users, the change is all for naught.

 

I'm monitoring this cautiously, but I'd like to strongly recommend that you clarify if security, bugfix and data loss updates are pushed for folks without a subscription. I can tell you now that if another long-standing ZFS bug comes out at a point in the future, and there's an entire class of unraid users who need to re-up/pay to fix it (or worse yet, are left to feel like they have to pay to get support to recover data), they will loudly move to a different product, community support will eventually falter and this will just be another product that was good at one time.

 

Also, I'm curious how much of a cash inflow you've seen now that there's a potential secondary market of folks buying basic keys en-masse to resell/hold their spot in the legacy tier as it will always be a better product than what you're providing now. By fudging this announcement, you've basically just designed a black market resale scheme for years to come.

 

This is a problematic launch and a problematic idea, albeit for a good cause. Seriously disappointed.

Extremely inciteful.  Invested folks should read this several times and digest slowly.  It's all valid.

[JorgeB]

4 minutes ago, Veah said:

It's all valid.

Some good points, but not this part:

4 minutes ago, Veah said:

there's a potential secondary market of folks buying basic keys en-masse to resell/hold their spot in the legacy tier as it will always be a better product than what you're providing now.

As already mentioned Unraid keys are not transferrable:

https://unraid.net/policies

[Cessquill]

Whilst this won't directly affect me (pro user), I'm a little concerned about what we jokingly call the "coming soon™" roadmap of Unraid might be sacrificed so that a release is launched to pacify those paying for a year and receiving little or nothing. 

 

Stability is paramount to me from Lime, and the bells and whistles I get from and give to the community.  I don't want to risk stable updates in order to hit a schedule.

 

I get that in recent times updates have been faster, so I might be talking out of my hat.

 

From where I see it, it's not practical to split the system into functionality and security updates - nice idea, but I don't think it's built like that.

 

Likewise, it won't be practical, but I'd rather be charged if I want to opt for a + .1  release rather than tied to a schedule.  Steinberg have a policy of charging for major releases, with incremental ones free.  If you want to leave it, you can.  But you pay some more later on if you want to play catchup.

 

Trivial for me, since I've had a pro licence for a long time, but since I've had cache drives & pools, dockers, plugins and VMs, I've often figured I ought to have paid something extra.  But then what if I wanted just a NAS with the latest security patches (can of worms...!).

[Veah]

13 minutes ago, JorgeB said:

Some good points, but not this part:

As already mentioned Unraid keys are not transferrable:

https://unraid.net/policies

The policy and execution I suspect do not match regarding key transfer.  I bet it happens and it would be an extremely tough issue to combat; the juice not being worth the squeeze.

[Frank1940]

15 minutes ago, Veah said:

The policy and execution I suspect do not match regarding key transfer.  I bet it happens and it would be an extremely tough issue to combat; the juice not being worth the squeeze.

In agreement with your thinking, I would bet it does occur occasionally.  (I would think that it usually happens between friends and relatives.)  But it could be in the future that the actual issuance of the .KEY file could be tired to the original email address.  While LimeTech has bent over backwards to accommodate issues with licensing problems, it could be that they will make it more difficult in the future by requiring more complete explanations and documentation. 

 

Plus, the 'buyer' of 'bulk' licenses will want to make a profit.  How much premium is someone willing to pay to get the unlimited license when LimeTech will be selling the same thing at a higher cost (How much higher is another problem for the buyers) than today.  You can see that there is a rock-and-a-hard-spot issue for the speculator...

[EDACerton]

1 hour ago, Veah said:

The policy and execution I suspect do not match regarding key transfer.  I bet it happens and it would be an extremely tough issue to combat; the juice not being worth the squeeze.

For someone doing a handful of licenses, you're probably right... but if someone was reselling in substantial quantities, it wouldn't be difficult to spot.